- Joined
- Jun 6, 2014
Last edited:
Adelina Sotnikova Flip-loop combination
- Thread starter creaturelover
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2014
Glad to see her training at all o
O I didn't think she was practicing st all... But I like what I see!! Now hopefully she will stop flutzing
O I didn't think she was practicing st all... But I like what I see!! Now hopefully she will stop flutzing
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
The 3L is < if not <<, and this is coming from a fan. But I do think she intends to continue competing, because even in the competition she skated in this year she still showed a 3/3, 3Lz (maybe flutz, couldn't tell from the angle), and the other triples.
I agree that it was short but she's gotten the 3Lz-3Lo rotation ratified before (not the edge) so I'm sure if she really wants it, she could get it, I always liked her 3F better than her 3Lz
She trains twice a day.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2009
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Love it. 
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
Theres quite a bit of pre-rotation on the 3R. I won't say it is << but certainly looks < even without slo-mo. I personally love the 3R combos just for the sheer athleticism and speed and instinctive reflexes required. Looking at the ratified ones from Slutskaya (3Lz-3R, Worlds 2005), several from Ando (3Lz-3R), Asada (3F-3R) and certainly Tara Lipinski's 3R-3R, it looks like those that get ratified are immediate launch into the second 3R without any hesitation and allowance for pre-rotation. It is very different from a 3T tagged on where you almost land on the first jump, get a bit of outflow and then launch the 3T. The 3R combos are like land the first and then immediately off you go up. Those where you hold out a bit invariably gets called for < or even << probably due to the pre-rotation.
Pity that 3xx-3R combos do not get sufficiently rewarded both in BV and GOEs for their sheer difficulty. Consider a 3R-3T versus 3T-3R. They both get the same BV and GOE but the latter is actually much more difficult to execute. I personally think the second 3R ought to have a bonus BV of 25% if fully rotated and GOEs get a similar 25% extra bonus. Things can stay the same if the combo gets a < or <<. This should give lots of incentives for skaters to aim for the more difficult combos. It is also amazing that very few male skaters have managed to tag a 3R - off my head, I can only think of Eric Millot (first ever 3R-3R), Alexei Urmanov (3S-3R) and Kevin Reynolds (3F-3R I think). Perhaps they get more points out of 3A and quads. More ladies have attempted 3R combos since quads and 3A are in another realm for them but I think it is also getting much less popular especially after Asada decided to sit out.
Great that Sotnikova is trying it. She could technically get a much better technical BV for her jump layouts with a 3F-3R, where she can repeat both 3F and 3R instead of 3F and 3T in her previous.
Possible layout:
3F-3R
3Lz (e) - better fix this quick!
2A-3T
3F-2T-2R
3R
3S
2A
Sotnikova actually has a huge and steady 2A - only Tuks can match hers among the Russians who generally have scary axel techniques at present. If ever one day she can land a 3A, her BV difficulty will reach that of Mao Asada's at Sochi and we can see if someone will really land a fully ratified 8 triple programme - which hadn't been done yet.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
I don't like a loop in a combo at all. It always looks ur, or it is actually very difficult to make it fully rotated no matter who does it. I even hate 3lo-3lo more. It always gives me the feeling the skater is "cheating", even for Mao.
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2014
I think a better layout for her would be:
3Lz
3F
3L
2A-3t
3F-2T-2L
2A-3T (OR 3L-2A which I could see her doing.)
Nice! If rotated this would be a better option than the 3Lz+3T.
3Lo-2A is impossible as a combo and not worth doing as a sequence.
3Lo-2A is impossible as a combo and not worth doing as a sequence.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2011
I had no idea she was still training. The combination looks good, probably < but I definitely don't think it's <<. Plus if she ends up doing this next season we can enjoy a guilt-free 3-3 from Sotnikova with no technical issues.
It'll be interesting to see how the Russians battle it out for the spots. I think Liza will be there #1 for 2018, however, or I hope. Her skating is much more pleasant to look at. It will also be interesting if Adelina decides to train a 4T to combat Liza's 3A.
Good to see Adelina back in training. Though I hope her foot is really okay and she isn't pushing too hard too soon. 
-3Lo looks <, but not bad for someone who was out with injury. If she really wants to challenge the loop combinations, 3F-3Lo is probably the smarter choice; if she does 3Lz-3Lo and gets an edge call, that kills the GOE for her entire combination.
@Globetrotter
Imo, the reason men don't do a lot of loop combinations isn't that they can't--it's that there's no point. Why do a challenging -3Lo combination (that could get a UR call) when you can do a -3T combo and a solo 3Lo for the same number of points?
-3Lo looks <, but not bad for someone who was out with injury. If she really wants to challenge the loop combinations, 3F-3Lo is probably the smarter choice; if she does 3Lz-3Lo and gets an edge call, that kills the GOE for her entire combination.
@Globetrotter
Imo, the reason men don't do a lot of loop combinations isn't that they can't--it's that there's no point. Why do a challenging -3Lo combination (that could get a UR call) when you can do a -3T combo and a solo 3Lo for the same number of points?
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2014
Really? I love a triple loop as the second jump in a triple/triple. It's beautiful. I wish more skaters tried it. Mad props to Adelina for trying this. I hope she brings it next year.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
Even with DWTS to train for? :think:
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
Sigh, it was exactly what I suspected. And it is the same for the ladies too. For the men, they could get better dividends by training a quad or a 3A rather than tagging a 3R in combo and risking the <. I guess the issue I have is what many have said already - CoP BV does not fairly reward and score combos in relation to their real difficulty. And 3R combos are certainly much more difficult than 3T combos and there is a lack of incentive for going after them. For ladies, the quad and 3A is in the stratosphere, so I guess there is some room to go for 3R combo. Really, I do think 3R combos ought to be rewarded with an additional bonus in the BV e.g. the 3R BV can be boosted by 25% (5.1 -> 6.4) when done successfully as the second jump in combo, with an additional 10% bonus if done in the 2nd half. I believe this may encourage some other folks to start thinking of tagging the 3R.
