Adelina Sotnikova Flip-loop combination

[Globetrotter]

It'll be interesting to see how the Russians battle it out for the spots. I think Liza will be there #1 for 2018, however, or I hope. Her skating is much more pleasant to look at. It will also be interesting if Adelina decides to train a 4T to combat Liza's 3A.

Hmm, that is theoretically possible but I do notice that Sots tend to be more a powerful jumper rather than a fast rotator, so the quad may not be so easy. I can actually see her reliably trying out a 3A. Like Tuks, her 2A jump is big, steady and reliable - a contrast with so many of the other Russian girls with scary axel techniques (Yulia Lip, Pogo, Medvedeva for instance!). However being out of action for so long, it may be more realistic to go for a 3-3 that does not get edge calls, rather than to go for the 3A or quad jump. I do like the idea of 3F-3R if she can get it reliably ratified since it will allow her to repeat both 3F and 3R for a higher BV, rather than the 3T repeat (lower BV) - shes going to need all the points to compete with Tuks (3A coming up), the tano girls and the engaging crowd favs (Yulia Lip, Elena Radio).

 

[noidont]

Madness she can learn those dances with still enough time to go to skating training. Adelina is very talented and is a powerful jumper, except that her air position seems less tight than Tuk.

 

[Watermelondrea]

Even with DWTS to train for? :think:

I think he meant once for figure skating, and once for DWTS.

 

[Watermelondrea]

Nice! If rotated this would be a better option than the 3Lz+3T.



3Lo-2A is impossible as a combo and not worth doing as a sequence.

Thanks!! 3L-2A isn't impossible, Mirai Nagasu did it 2010, and so did Wagner last year. But doing another 2A-3tT makes it easier for her, and it would make her base value more difficult.

 

[Watermelondrea]

I calculated the jump base value for Sotnikova with the program I thought of her: 46.452
In conparison: Elena Radionova: 46.392
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva: 47.042 (Without Triple A!!)

 

[Watermelondrea]

I want to see her do the Je Suis Malade FS she did at the test skate. The running to the boards and dying infront of the judges was everything!!

Nice combination. I hope to see a more refined mature Sotnikova this cycle.

Lol I hope she changes the choreo tho ;P

 

[QuadThrow]

I think the advantage of 3X-3Lo-combinations is that you do not need and waste a 3T. There is the possibility of performing two more big combinations (with X-3T) in the program. I am against increasing the base value for 3X-3Lo.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Hmm, that is theoretically possible but I do notice that Sots tend to be more a powerful jumper rather than a fast rotator, so the quad may not be so easy.

I also think the 4T won't happen for her, mainly because she is usually tilted in the air on the 3T and often has to save the jump, which she wouldn't be able to do adding a rotation.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I think the advantage of 3X-3Lo-combinations is that you do not need and waste a 3T. There is the possibility of performing two more big combinations (with X-3T) in the program. I am against increasing the base value for 3X-3Lo.

Why would anybody go for a 3-3Lo plus 2 3-3T combinations? That only leaves you with jumping passes you can't even fill. As it is today, the only advantage you get from a 3-3Lo combo is that you can repeat the 3Lo instead of a 3T, which is a 1 point increase. Way not enough to make the higher risk worth.

Good to see Adelina back and practicing! 3-3Lo combos have pretty much zero advantage under the current system, but I'd be happy if she'd still go for one. If she includes the flip in her 3-3, maybe she can focus on the edge for the lutz instead of having to worry about adding a second jump afterwards.

 

[QuadThrow]

Why would anybody go for a 3-3Lo plus 2 3-3T combinations? That only leaves you with jumping passes you can't even fill. As it is today, the only advantage you get from a 3-3Lo combo is that you can repeat the 3Lo instead of a 3T, which is a 1 point increase. Way not enough to make the higher risk worth.

Good to see Adelina back and practicing! 3-3Lo combos have pretty much zero advantage under the current system, but I'd be happy if she'd still go for one. If she includes the flip in her 3-3, maybe she can focus on the edge for the lutz instead of having to worry about adding a second jump afterwards.

Good pionts.

But perhaps this setting is not that unrealistic:

3F-3Lo
2A-3T
3S-3T

The real difficulty is the first combination and not the others.

 

[solani]

@Globetrotter
I agree, 3R as 2nd jump in combos should be rewarded, I would like to see them more often.
And I'm glad we see Adelina is training. She could still take the easy way out but I hope she doesn't.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Good pionts.

But perhaps this setting is not that unrealistic:

3F-3Lo
2A-3T
3S-3T

The real difficulty is the first combination and not the others.

But you already have 5 triples in 3 jumping passes. Now the only thing left is a 3Lz and one of 3S/3F/3Lo. Otherwise, you'd repeat more than 2 triples. And since skaters can only do 2 2As too, the 7th jumping pass would be unused:

3F-3Lo
2A-3T
3S-3T
3Lz
3F (or 3S or 3Lo)
2A

The next best thing to include would be a 2Lz, and I doubt anybody would ever go for that. So instead, one of the 3-3 combos wouldn't happen - and it doesn't matter point-wise which one you keep and which not. So basically, most skater would go back to keep the 3-3T and split the 3-3Lo to do a single 3Lo instead.

 

[Sandpiper]

Hmm, that is theoretically possible but I do notice that Sots tend to be more a powerful jumper rather than a fast rotator, so the quad may not be so easy. I can actually see her reliably trying out a 3A. Like Tuks, her 2A jump is big, steady and reliable - a contrast with so many of the other Russian girls with scary axel techniques (Yulia Lip, Pogo, Medvedeva for instance!). However being out of action for so long, it may be more realistic to go for a 3-3 that does not get edge calls, rather than to go for the 3A or quad jump. I do like the idea of 3F-3R if she can get it reliably ratified since it will allow her to repeat both 3F and 3R for a higher BV, rather than the 3T repeat (lower BV) - shes going to need all the points to compete with Tuks (3A coming up), the tano girls and the engaging crowd favs (Yulia Lip, Elena Radio).

Adelina definitely has the natural jumping ability to challenge quads/3As. I'm just unsure if her technique is strong enough. She doesn't really combine big jumps with quick rotation like Liza does. And if she's working on her lutz edge and -3Lo combos as well, I think she's got quite enough on her plate.

I'd love to see her return to competition and try though. Hopefully she's sorted out whatever mental blocks she's had before Sochi. She is indeed one of the few girls in the world who can even dream of 3A.

 

[QuadThrow]

But you already have 5 triples in 3 jumping passes. Now the only thing left is a 3Lz and one of 3S/3F/3Lo. Otherwise, you'd repeat more than 2 triples. And since skaters can only do 2 2As too, the 7th jumping pass would be unused:

3F-3Lo
2A-3T
3S-3T
3Lz
3F (or 3S or 3Lo)
2A

The next best thing to include would be a 2Lz, and I doubt anybody would ever go for that. So instead, one of the 3-3 combos wouldn't happen - and it doesn't matter point-wise which one you keep and which not. So basically, most skater would go back to keep the 3-3T and split the 3-3Lo to do a single 3Lo instead.

Ok, i am sorry. it seems to be that i did not understand the rules in detail. Can someone explain it to me, please?

Concering the jumps you see above. Why couldn´t you repeat the 3S or 3Lo after performing the 3F twice?

 

[satine]

Ok, i am sorry. it seems to be that i did not understand the rules in detail. Can someone explain it to me, please?

Concering the jumps you see above. Why couldn´t you repeat the 3S or 3Lo after performing the 3F twice?

Because a skater would be repeating both the 3F & 3T in that example, they already have repeated 2 triple jumps & can not repeat a third.

 

[QuadThrow]

Because a skater would be repeating both the 3F & 3T in that example, they already have repeated 2 triple jumps & can not repeat a third.

That´s it! Thanks.

 

[Mafke]

It looks pretty good. But I'm assuming that it's just a practice thing. There's no sense in risking the underrotation hit in points. Especially since CoP is completely stupid when it comes to combinations and sequences.

I really can't think of another word that fits. It's plain stupid to not reward combinations and sequences with more points than just adding the jumps together. I assume that's to make it easy on the judges by forcing more skaters to do the same combinations (presumably easier to judge).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don't think the point was showing a fully ratified combo. The point of this is probably to show people that she's still training and still serious about maintaining her ability (if not improving it with this combo).

 

[Mathman]

It's plain stupid to not reward combinations and sequences with more points than just adding the jumps together. I assume that's to make it easy on the judges by forcing more skaters to do the same combinations (presumably easier to judge).

I think the reason is that you already get a bonus for s combination because you get to do an extra triple jump that otherwise you would have tp leave off altogether.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think the reason is that you already get a bonus for s combination because you get to do an extra triple jump that otherwise you would have to leave off altogether.

Well in ladies, usually it's replacing a 2nd double axel (a 2nd 2A that can itself be added into a sequence).