Adult in Graf 500

[yetanotherfigureskater]

Hi everyone! I know something like this has probably been posted a lot, but I need some advice cause I'm overthinking!

I started on the Skate Excellence UK (the Planet Ice system) in October 2023 so I've been skating about 4 months now. Before I started with lessons I wanted to get my own skates to truly take advantage of the coaching (I'm quite serious about it!). I was sold the Graf 500 at my local skate shop. I am 24, female, 5'4 and weigh 66kg. I do like the skates; they don't hurt me anywhere, but I'm a bit worried they don't offer as much support? So now I'm overthinking whether I was sold boots that weren't for me, and if i should get new skates
I'm currently working on crossovers, three-turns, two foot & one foot spin, crossrolls, and backward edges. I think i have enough balance to attempt a walz jump (I can do it by the barrier), but I'm scared to attempt properly in the Grafs A girl in the lessons is same level as me and wears the Risport Electra, and she was shocked when she knew I was in Graf 500s which made my worries worse.

I don't have a private coach (I do group lessons) so I don't feel super comfortable asking at the lessons cause we're so many people (over 20). Let me know your thoughts on whether I should bite the bullet and upgrade now, or if I'm safe to skate in the grafs a bit longer!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hi everyone! I know something like this has probably been posted a lot, but I need some advice cause I'm overthinking!

I started on the Skate Excellence UK (the Planet Ice system) in October 2023 so I've been skating about 4 months now. Before I started with lessons I wanted to get my own skates to truly take advantage of the coaching (I'm quite serious about it!). I was sold the Graf 500 at my local skate shop. I am 24, female, 5'4 and weigh 66kg. I do like the skates; they don't hurt me anywhere, but I'm a bit worried they don't offer as much support? So now I'm overthinking whether I was sold boots that weren't for me, and if i should get new skates
I'm currently working on crossovers, three-turns, two foot & one foot spin, crossrolls, and backward edges. I think i have enough balance to attempt a walz jump (I can do it by the barrier), but I'm scared to attempt properly in the Grafs A girl in the lessons is same level as me and wears the Risport Electra, and she was shocked when she knew I was in Graf 500s which made my worries worse.

I don't have a private coach (I do group lessons) so I don't feel super comfortable asking at the lessons cause we're so many people (over 20). Let me know your thoughts on whether I should bite the bullet and upgrade now, or if I'm safe to skate in the grafs a bit longer!

HI and welcome. You are correct, they are in no way stiff enough for you as far as height/weight stats. Graf 500 is rated 20/25 and you need something rated closer to 50-60. If Graf works for you a Prestige Crystal would work possibly it has a 55 stiffness level.

At some point you are going to need a real fitting by a real FS pro and if you are in the UK @WednesdayMarch can help you with finding a proper fitter.

Individual boot needs are based on: Height/Weight, foot shape, arch height, skating level and more. This is how the boot brand/style is determined at any given time.


Good luck!

 

[2sk8]

Graf 500 is a recreational skate. If you are skating often, progressing quickly as you have and beginning jumps, you should get a different model. Prestige is a good choice. You could also look at Ruby Champion which is slightly less stiff. Both of these come with Graf's Lausanne blade, which is a good quality intermediate blade, or they can come boots only.

 

[icewhite]

HI and welcome. You are correct, they are in no way stiff enough for you as far as height/weight stats. Graf 500 is rated 20/25 and you need something rated closer to 50-60. If Graf works for you a Prestige Crystal would work possibly it has a 55 stiffness level.

At some point you are going to need a real fitting by a real FS pro and if you are in the UK @WednesdayMarch can help you with finding a proper fitter.

Individual boot needs are based on: Height/Weight, foot shape, arch height, skating level and more. This is how the boot brand/style is determined at any given time.


Good luck!

I have mentioned this before: I have been to two fitters in Germany, both of them recommended by much better skaters than me and even working for very high level German skaters (Olympic level). They are recommending and selling skates on a completely different basis than you guys here do. Much softer. I don't think they would recommend 50-60 unless you are doing double jumps. Neither do most of the skates companies. That's very confusing.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I have mentioned this before: I have been to two fitters in Germany, both of them recommended by much better skaters than me and even working for very high level German skaters (Olympic level). They are recommending and selling skates on a completely different basis than you guys here do. Much softer. I don't think they would recommend 50-60 unless you are doing double jumps. Neither do most of the skates companies. That's very confusing.

I'm a former Elite (yes World/Olympic level if you don't understand what that means) now Pro, I have skated/tested almost every boot and blade there is (even ones that don't exist anymore) I've also worn customs and know the ins and outs of that. I know what I'm doing as do a few others here. I have worked with some of the top fitters and techs in the world.

It is known (or maybe not according to your lovely shops) that if someone is of a higher weight and even height sometimes that you suggest a bit stiffer boot to them that you would a 50-80 lb child or early teen or they will risk injury. I have the history of putting people in the right boots and blades and am backed up in that by many happy skaters and coaches. As well as techs and boot company reps here. I alone have been here doing this for 7+ years, and that's just here.

Not all shops who claim they know WTH they are doing, actually do. That is where I will end this.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Graf 500 is a recreational skate. If you are skating often, progressing quickly as you have and beginning jumps, you should get a different model. Prestige is a good choice. You could also look at Ruby Champion which is slightly less stiff. Both of these come with Graf's Lausanne blade, which is a good quality intermediate blade, or they can come boots only.

I've never seen these models of Graf offered for sale in the UK. We pretty much go from Graf 500 and Bolero up to Richmond Specials with none of the inbetween models.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

HI and welcome. You are correct, they are in no way stiff enough for you as far as height/weight stats. Graf 500 is rated 20/25 and you need something rated closer to 50-60. If Graf works for you a Prestige Crystal would work possibly it has a 55 stiffness level.

At some point you are going to need a real fitting by a real FS pro and if you are in the UK @WednesdayMarch can help you with finding a proper fitter.

Individual boot needs are based on: Height/Weight, foot shape, arch height, skating level and more. This is how the boot brand/style is determined at any given time.


Good luck!

Thanks, @Ic3Rabbit . I've replied to your private message, @yetanotherfigureskater .

 

[icewhite]

I'm a former Elite (yes World/Olympic level if you don't understand what that means) now Pro, I have skated/tested almost every boot and blade there is (even ones that don't exist anymore) I've also worn customs and know the ins and outs of that. I know what I'm doing as do a few others here. I have worked with some of the top fitters and techs in the world.

It is known (or maybe not according to your lovely shops) that if someone is of a higher weight and even height sometimes that you suggest a bit stiffer boot to them that you would a 50-80 lb child or early teen or they will risk injury. I have the history of putting people in the right boots and blades and am backed up in that by many happy skaters and coaches. As well as techs and boot company reps here. I alone have been here doing this for 7+ years, and that's just here.

Not all shops who claim they know WTH they are doing, actually do. That is where I will end this.

Well, but you get why it's confusing for someone who wants to buy skates?
I don't know what the reason for this difference is.
E.g. Jackson themselves say their Freestyles are for skaters training double jumps without mentioning weight - they cannot think all their clients are teenagers.

 

[yetanotherfigureskater]

Well, but you get why it's confusing for someone who wants to buy skates?
I don't know what the reason for this difference is.
E.g. Jackson themselves say their Freestyles are for skaters training double jumps without mentioning weight - they cannot think all their clients are teenagers.

I've seen people online recommending adult skaters start with the Freestyles!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Well, but you get why it's confusing for someone who wants to buy skates?
I don't know what the reason for this difference is.
E.g. Jackson themselves say their Freestyles are for skaters training double jumps without mentioning weight - they cannot think all their clients are teenagers.

Yes I get it and have laid it all out on this forum over 7 years, perhaps go back and read those years of posts. I am a very busy person and don't have the time to come here and lay everything out for you and things that I can't even explain to you b/c it's knowledge gained over 30 years of skating. Including that the info upthread was taken too literally and was an example, certainly all skaters are not teens.

I don't feel like this conversation needs to continue, you've already gone off topic of us trying to help a skater here.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I've seen people online recommending adult skaters start with the Freestyles!

That's a stiffness someone could start with if they are in the weight/height realm for them and yes I mean an adult.

 

[2sk8]

I've never seen these models of Graf offered for sale in the UK. We pretty much go from Graf 500 and Bolero up to Richmond Specials with none of the inbetween models.

I would suggest contacting the UK distributor then. The models are certainly available. If the boots you have fit comfortably, it is reasonable to try the same brand rather than relying on the limited choices in one or another shop.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I've seen people online recommending adult skaters start with the Freestyles!

One of the most popular boots with the adult skaters I see as it's pretty tough. I wouldn't recommend it for very tall or heavy adults or those with very strong technique, but it is a decent one for most beginners and improvers.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Well, but you get why it's confusing for someone who wants to buy skates?
I don't know what the reason for this difference is.
E.g. Jackson themselves say their Freestyles are for skaters training double jumps without mentioning weight - they cannot think all their clients are teenagers.

No, but their ratings are based on children/teen competitive skaters, who tend to be tiny. Adult skaters are still a minority in the sport.

The whole equipment thing is a minefield. @Ic3Rabbit and others of us here have decades of experience with all levels and disciplines, not to mention changes in equipment. We don't like people getting injured and while I hate seeing people held back in their progress by equipment that is too advanced or stiff for them, I would rather they were overbooted than injured.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Well, but you get why it's confusing for someone who wants to buy skates?
I don't know what the reason for this difference is.
E.g. Jackson themselves say their Freestyles are for skaters training double jumps without mentioning weight - they cannot think all their clients are teenagers.

This has been explained to you already, but I'll try adding another voice. If you take the time to read the listings for various boots on various sites, you'll find that the suppliers usually use the manufacturer's stock description which is GENERALIZED. The manufacturer is not going to mention something like a weight range because then they'd find themselves being accused of "weightism" (did I just invent a word?). They're using level of jumping ability as a way of categorizing skaters into approximate groupings, and then someone who actually sees the buyer in person or has a more detailed description, like here on GS, can then refine into smaller groups given extenuating differences. The person you need to listen to is an expert, whether a trained fitter (not the salesclerk in your rink's pro shop or the sporting goods store at your local mall) or a highly experienced skater now coaching. If you had a persistent health problem, whose advice are you going to listen to, a medical specialist, or the sales clerk stocking shelves in your drugstore?

Take the company website's description as a starting point, not as the final authority. They want to entice skaters into at least trying on their boots. In person, not in their imagination reading an advertising description! (I'm thinking off topic of the alluring descriptions of cosmetics in magazine ads, and how very often the results on one's own face turn out to be very different.)

So try them on. And if you insist on buying based on an ad description, then go ahead and try them out. And if the boots turn out to be, as predicted, too soft for someone your size, then while you recuperate from the inevitable injuries, remember the advice you were given here or by an expert fitter and forget the manufacturer's sales pitch.

 

[icewhite]

I don't know why you guys here are so condescending and mean.
I had no ill intentions at all. I got recommendations from two professional fitters, one an ex pro, one (I don't know his background) has clients of a high level who obviously trust him. Both fitters have been recommended by other skaters who themselves have a very decent level and seem content with what they got. I did not ask some random dude, but the specialists that exist in my country. In both cases I have to drive hours to get there. Maybe they are wrong - how am I, a complete amateur with only basic skating skills, supposed to know?
You guys say "we are pros, we know". Fine. But those people are pros, too. And one would assume they have an interest in selling the most expensive boots to me, but apparently they don't.
I don't want to claim they are right and you are wrong. I simply don't know. I am a normal person stuck between experts who claim different things. Well, I am not since I'm currently not looking for skates, I'm content at the moment, but I want to make you see the perspective of someone in this position.
Maybe there are "cultural differences" in which boots are recommended, maybe it depends on the discipline you come from, I don't know.
However one thing I know is that should I have a real question concerning boots and blades now I will definitely not ask here, because you guys, especially icerabbit, use a tone that is totally inappropriate.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I don't know why you guys here are so condescending and mean.
I had no ill intentions at all. I got recommendations from two professional fitters, one an ex pro, one (I don't know his background) has clients of a high level who obviously trust him. Both fitters have been recommended by other skaters who themselves have a very decent level and seem content with what they got. I did not ask some random dude, but the specialists that exist in my country. In both cases I have to drive hours to get there. Maybe they are wrong - how am I, a complete amateur with only basic skating skills, supposed to know?
You guys say "we are pros, we know". Fine. But those people are pros, too. And one would assume they have an interest in selling the most expensive boots to me, but apparently they don't.
I don't want to claim they are right and you are wrong. I simply don't know. I am a normal person stuck between experts who claim different things. Well, I am not since I'm currently not looking for skates, I'm content at the moment, but I want to make you see the perspective of someone in this position.
Maybe there are "cultural differences" in which boots are recommended, maybe it depends on the discipline you come from, I don't know.
However one thing I know is that should I have a real question concerning boots and blades now I will definitely not ask here, because you guys, especially icerabbit, use a tone that is totally inappropriate.

As I said above, it's a total minefield. I'm glad you're content at the moment. And if you are happy and trust your fitter, then that's great. It's really difficult to advise over the internet and the last thing any of us want is for somebody to be fitted with something inappropriate which could cause them injury, so we tend to go with caution.

 

[Elija]

I don't know why you guys here are so condescending and mean.
I had no ill intentions at all. I got recommendations from two professional fitters, one an ex pro, one (I don't know his background) has clients of a high level who obviously trust him. Both fitters have been recommended by other skaters who themselves have a very decent level and seem content with what they got. I did not ask some random dude, but the specialists that exist in my country. In both cases I have to drive hours to get there. Maybe they are wrong - how am I, a complete amateur with only basic skating skills, supposed to know?
You guys say "we are pros, we know". Fine. But those people are pros, too. And one would assume they have an interest in selling the most expensive boots to me, but apparently they don't.
I don't want to claim they are right and you are wrong. I simply don't know. I am a normal person stuck between experts who claim different things. Well, I am not since I'm currently not looking for skates, I'm content at the moment, but I want to make you see the perspective of someone in this position.
Maybe there are "cultural differences" in which boots are recommended, maybe it depends on the discipline you come from, I don't know.
However one thing I know is that should I have a real question concerning boots and blades now I will definitely not ask here, because you guys, especially icerabbit, use a tone that is totally inappropriate.

I agree with you! It’s definitely confusing when you have a range of different experts who all tell you different things. I did notice on riedell’s website that they have a recommendation for stiffness (the regular recommendation) and then one for adults. So their boots that are rated for doubles say they are for adults doing singles/starting axel. Boots rated for triples are rated as for adults learning doubles etc. here’s an example: https://ice.riedellskates.com/Product/boot-model-vega

I found that really helpful! I don’t think other brands do that though. I’ve found over time I have done my own research and figured out through trial and error what works for me, but there have been some expensive lessons. Some fitters have been much better than others as well, so it’s definitely a minefield.

 

[silverlily1]

Well, but you get why it's confusing for someone who wants to buy skates?
I don't know what the reason for this difference is.
E.g. Jackson themselves say their Freestyles are for skaters training double jumps without mentioning weight - they cannot think all their clients are teenagers.

Actually Jackson has quite extensive weight/skill level/boot model charts. When you realize that the (second) beginner children's chart isn't meant for adults (only goes up to 80 lb, so the very top end might be okay for some adults at low skill levels but won't be okay for everyone), you instead need to look at the first chart. It lists both weights and jumping ability. You can see that certain boots aren't strong enough for adults at all. The higher you are above that 115 lb mark, the higher the stiffness you'll need to go to on the list in that category, or even jump up a category if you're quite a bit heavier than 115 lb.

Jackson Fit Guide

Jackson Ultima Fit Guide

jacksonultima.com

 

[gsk8]

@icewhite, I'm sure the folks here don't mean to shame and bully you (despite the repeated clapping and thumbs-up reactions to each other's posts). I can certainly understand you would see it this way. In fact, we have lost many new members and have just as many complaints in this particular forum for the exact reasons you mentioned.

However, I do think they mean well.

Let me translate you and cut through some of the narcissism, sarcasm and condescending rhetoric.

I'm a former Elite (yes World/Olympic level if you don't understand what that means) now Pro, I have skated/tested almost every boot and blade there is (even ones that don't exist anymore) I've also worn customs and know the ins and outs of that. I know what I'm doing as do a few others here. I have worked with some of the top fitters and techs in the world.

It is known (or maybe not according to your lovely shops) that if someone is of a higher weight and even height sometimes that you suggest a bit stiffer boot to them that you would a 50-80 lb child or early teen or they will risk injury. I have the history of putting people in the right boots and blades and am backed up in that by many happy skaters and coaches. As well as techs and boot company reps here. I alone have been here doing this for 7+ years, and that's just here.

Not all shops who claim they know WTH they are doing, actually do. That is where I will end this.
Click to expand...

As a professional skater with experience, I've skated/tested almost every boot and blade there is (even ones that don't exist anymore). I've also worn customs and know the ins and outs of that. I know what I'm doing as do a few others here. I have worked with some of the top fitters and techs in the world.

It is generally known that if someone is of a higher weight and even height sometimes that you suggest a bit stiffer boot to them that you would a 50-80 lb child or early teen or they will risk injury.

Not all shops who claim they know what they are doing, actually do.

Yes I get it and have laid it all out on this forum over 7 years, perhaps go back and read those years of posts. I am a very busy person and don't have the time to come here and lay everything out for you and things that I can't even explain to you b/c it's knowledge gained over 30 years of skating. Including that the info upthread was taken too literally and was an example, certainly all skaters are not teens.

I've been sharing and posting advice here for long time, so perhaps a quick search through those might help out a bit more.

When the experts you consult disagree, you will need to use your own best judgment of which to trust.

@Ic3Rabbit you have indeed provided a plethora of advice over the years. We have thanked you many times for that, but it's not required of you. If you feel frustrated that folks don't search through all your previous posts for answers, perhaps we can work together to create "sticky" threads for the bulk of the questions folks continue to ask "ie. Fittings, beginner skates, etc."

However, prefacing every post with "I'm an elite former skater" (we counted 91 times) and getting upset and/or snarky when someone might question you doesn't bode well.