Advice needed - what's wrong with my backward crossovers

[vanko]

Hello,
let me introduce myself - I'm an adult self taught skater, who started inline skating 13 months ago with no previous experience and moved from inline to ice just 6 weeks ago. usually I skate about 4-5 sessions per week and try to educate myself from online resources.


So about my problem with the backward crossovers. I have watched every instructional video that I have found and I know quite well how the crossovers should be done, at least in theory. My first attempts started somewhere in march, but until today I still cannot make it work as it should. I suppose something in my body position is quite wrong, but cannot grasp exactly how to correct it. I blame my poor upper body ROM (I try to improve it with off ice exercises, but I'm 40, so I don't expect fast results), but I'm not sure if this is the only reason.
If I have to explain it - I just cannot rotate enough backward, and cannot straighten my leg while underpushing. Also it seems that I over rotate and I'm not able to make the circle bigger. Here I will attach links to two videos - first one is just from today. Sorry for the poor quality - it's very shaky, but it's the only video that I have on ice (I skate at outdoor rink and usually at dark). After the crossovers there are my very bad attempts to glide on outside backward edges with closed hips and crossed leg in front. I think that if I master this position, my crossovers will get better, but for the moment it is just bad. I cannot rotate enough my upper body while maintaining the circle, and I don't know if my lack of mobility is the problem, or something else.

https://youtu.be/TAyRbhNU1E0

Here is something from the end of May, on inline skates , but with better quality. Here I don't extend my outward leg, which I try to do now, but maybe most of the problems are the same.

https://youtu.be/gAoApNDosbk

My forward crossovers are much better though.
So, I'm open for suggestions what and how to correct. Thanks!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

You really need to get an ice coach, who can correct things and teach you proper technique. It is not a good idea to try to teach yourself skating from online videos and such.

I wish you luck.

 

[vanko]

This is good advice, but unfortunately in my case for a lot of reasons it is not so easy.

 

[mskater93]

I agree wholeheartedly with Ic3Rabbit. If private lessons aren't in the cards, take a LTS class before you either hurt yourself or develop habits that can't be undone

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

This is good advice, but unfortunately in my case for a lot of reasons it is not so easy.

Is it a question of finding somewhere to go for lessons? If you're comfortable with sharing the general area where you live, there might be someone here who can help point you in the right direction - there are folks here from all over the world!

Also remember - the skills in figure skating build off of each other. To have good back crossovers, you need to have mastered backward edges and back half-swizzle pumps on a circle. And to be comfortable with those, you need to have mastered back one-foot glides and backward full swizzles. I tried teaching myself initially, having skated a lot with no formal instruction as a child, and I was surprised at how much practice it took to do even the most basic skills correctly. Backward swizzles were a real battle!! I progressed much easier when I had immediate, knowledgeable feedback from a group instructor.

 

[vanko]

Is it a question of finding somewhere to go for lessons?

Тhere are 3 ice rinks where I live. 1 is outdoor and open only for public sessions, the other 2 are mostly reserved for professional hockey and figure skating activities, there are public sessions only 3 days per week. I tried to visit amateur training sessions of 2 figure skating clubs. One consists almost entirely of children, and they are about 30 on the ice. The other club consist mostly from teens/adults, and are about 20 people on the ice. In both cases 1 couch trains about 6-7 persons and they divide the ice widthwise so there is a corridor for every group. So there are few problems with this. First - even in one group, everyone has different level. The couch shows an exercise, and then everyone repeat it - some better, some worse. The couch doesn't have time to make corrections to every single person. Neither to do some corrective exercises or progressions. Also corridors are not wide enough to skate in a reasonably big circle and on top of this you cannot train something in circle while the others are training something in line. Also I have watched a lot of training videos, including from icoachskating.com and I think I know how a good coach should explain, show and correct mistakes. And I haven's seen this in these 2 clubs. So my conclusion is that these sessions just doesn't add any value for me.
About private lessons - I can take such only during the public sessions, but they are too crowded to be effective. I skate usually at evening sessions (22:00) where there are just about 15 people on the ice, but at this time nobody will want to teach me. There is a girl that works on the rink. She is a instructor for children, and I paid twice for couching. She is a ex national figure skater, but is not a couch. She helped me with some advices, but she is not often there at 22:00 and this rink will be closed at the end of this week, so my choice for even skating alone will be much limited to the open sessions of the two rinks (one of which is too far from where I live) and the children group.

 

[Kat12]

What I see looks familiar to me as what I do if I'm not feeling solid on that inside edge. That's where I'd start. How do you feel about your inside edges, both forward and backward? If my crossovers feel like this, I have to concentrate on really pushing into and holding that inside edge strong and steady. Because my guess is that you feel like you don't get an extension because you are "falling" inward and need to put down that inside foot, rather than having time to extend it?

 

[vanko]

What I see looks familiar to me as what I do if I'm not feeling solid on that inside edge. That's where I'd start. How do you feel about your inside edges, both forward and backward? If my crossovers feel like this, I have to concentrate on really pushing into and holding that inside edge strong and steady. Because my guess is that you feel like you don't get an extension because you are "falling" inward and need to put down that inside foot, rather than having time to extend it?

Now I can do it better than when I started the thread, but still not enough. Two exercises helped me - first one is gliding on back outside edge with upperbody and hips towards circle (free leg over the trace, like the starting position of loop jump - it is visible in the video after the crossover). I'm still not good enough at this, but it helped me to learn to skate with my entire weight over the outside edge of the inside leg. The other one is gliding in the stance that you are talking about - outside foot on inside edge and inside leg extended under. Now I keep it much better than before, but I still cannot keep very big circle and I suppose the problem is mostly in not enough upper body rotation.
I still cannot identify the exact problem.
Here I have better video, taken few days after the one that I posted in the beginning of the thread.
https://youtu.be/zRNuEp3dx8Y

I have to take another one, to see how is my posture now. I think I don't lean enough my body into the circle, and don't rotate enough backward.