Brennan: Why U.S. figure skating has fallen

[theoreticalgirl]

As for transgender athletes--I hope I can log on the day a transgender woman wins by doing a quad and her competitors realize she has the muscles and center of gravity of a man. That will be an interesting day on Golden Skate Forum.

Me too. ME TOO. :thumbsup: I just see the wealth of talent that trans people offer up society (e.g. Laverne Cox, Laura Jane Grace, Janet Mock), I just want that so much for this sport. I believe that skating is for everyone and would love to see it be more inclusive.

 

[Interspectator]

I'm not sure because given the amount of pushback I've seen here in this discussion re: gender, it seems like they don't exist. And maybe it's because they aren't afforded the opportunity to exist?

Doping tests would be a nightmare for transgender athletes...they'd probably need to get all sorts of new rules passed to allow for that?

 

[theoreticalgirl]

Doping tests would be a nightmare for transgender athletes...they'd probably need to get all sorts of new rules passed to allow for that?

I posted this earlier in the discussion; it seems that the IOC is changing some of their policies regarding transgender athletes. I don't know if they're good policies for trans people, but I do wonder if it will push other sporting organizations to change/adopt/formalize new ones.

 

[ice coverage]

I'm not sure because given the amount of pushback I've seen here in this discussion re: gender, it seems like they don't exist. And maybe it's because they aren't afforded the opportunity to exist?

So I am left to conclude that figure skating is no different than other sports in this regard.

Me too. ME TOO. :thumbsup: I just see the wealth of talent that trans people offer up society (e.g. Laverne Cox, Laura Jane Grace, Janet Mock), I just want that so much for this sport. I believe that skating is for everyone and would love to see it be more inclusive.

Do you have any specific examples of trans skaters who have been excluded from figure skating???

If so:
Please share. Would help me (and others, I daresay) understand why you feel that figure skating has not been sufficiently inclusive.
I am not aware of any evidence that figure skating has not been inclusive ... b/c I do not know of any transgender skaters who have wanted to compete.

If not:
Then I continue to be puzzled by your posts. Agree that trans people have a wealth of talent to offer the world.
But in the absence of concrete examples, don't understand why you are assuming that trans people have been excluded from figure skating.
Elite skaters have to start their competitive careers at such a young age. If someone wanted to make a gender change and remain in the sport, I think we would have known about it ... and we would have known how the governing bodies reacted.

 

[louisa05]

So I am left to conclude that figure skating is no different than other sports in this regard.



Do you have any specific examples of trans skaters who have been excluded from figure skating???

If so:
Please share. Would help me (and others, I daresay) understand why you feel that figure skating has not been sufficiently inclusive.
I am not aware of any evidence that figure skating has not been inclusive ... b/c I do not know of any transgender skaters who have wanted to compete.

If not:
Then I continue to be puzzled by your posts. Agree that trans people have a wealth of talent to offer the world.
But in the absence of concrete examples, don't understand why you are assuming that trans people have been excluded from figure skating.
Elite skaters have to start their competitive careers at such a young age. If someone wanted to make a gender change and remain in the sport, I think we would have known about it ... and we would have known how the governing bodies reacted.

I'm just puzzled that someone thinks that the division of men/women competitors and transgender issues is the reason for declining skating audience in the U.S. The NFL has no women athletes and, in fact, a history of disregarding abuse of women by their personnel and has very few women employed off the field yet retains a huge American audience and has made strides in other countries as well (success in playing games in London the last two seasons, for example). The Super Bowl is consistently the highest rated sporting event in the U.S. each year. MLB and the NBA have no women athletes and retain audiences and decent television ratings. The WNBA, meanwhile, is struggling to find enough of an audience to keep the league alive.

So, I'm sorry, if your personal crusade is removing gender identification from society, good for you. But the notion that lack of transgender athletes and the division of competition by biological sex is what is bringing down figure skating in the U.S makes no sense when we look at which spectator sports are thriving here. American sports fans clearly have no issue with watching only biological males compete in sports and very few seem to be concerned even with gender equity in the sports they watch.

 

[ice coverage]

I'm just puzzled that someone thinks that the division of men/women competitors and transgender issues is the reason for declining skating audience in the U.S. The NFL has no women athletes and, in fact, a history of disregarding abuse of women by their personnel and has very few women employed off the field yet retains a huge American audience and has made strides in other countries as well (success in playing games in London the last two seasons, for example). The Super Bowl is consistently the highest rated sporting event in the U.S. each year. MLB and the NBA have no women athletes and retain audiences and decent television ratings. The WNBA, meanwhile, is struggling to find enough of an audience to keep the league alive.

So, I'm sorry, if your personal crusade is removing gender identification from society, good for you. But the notion that lack of transgender athletes and the division of competition by biological sex is what is bringing down figure skating in the U.S makes no sense when we look at what sports are thriving here.

I am not the person who started the transgender discussion.
I agree 100% with your post.

Don't know why you quoted me and replied, "if your personal crusade is ..., good for you"???

 

[louisa05]

I am not the person who started the transgender discussion.
I agree 100% with your post.

Don't know why you quoted me and replied, "if your personal crusade is ..., good for you"???

Sorry, that was to the poster who started this discussion. I did not think that would be unclear. I quoted you because I agreed with your point that we have not heard of any trans skaters being denied entry to comps or even wanting to compete.

 

[concorde]

I think we need to recognize that American viewers regard certain sports as "girl" sport and "boy" sports. Rightly or wrongly, that is the way it is.

Americans primarily tend to view football, basketball and ice hockey are "boy" sports. Yes, there are now getting to be female "pro" versions but the associated crowds watching the women are WAY lower and the tickets fees CHEAP. Personally, I may be willing to pay for male pro basketball tickets; if you gave me female pro basketball tickets, they would go un-used. That is my taste but don't think a lot of people are willing watch a bunch of ladies dunk a basketball.

I believe that ice skating is viewed by spectators as a "girl" sport. Once people get there, they like the men but the primary draw is the ladies. Women like to watch the skating; men like to watch the pretty girls in their short dresses.

Now compare a winning football team to a losing football team. When the team is winning, tickets are hard to come by at any price. But when the team is losing, season ticket holder cannot give away their tickets. People just don't want to waste their time and money on a losing team.

My view is the US needs a winning lady to start to bring back the crowds. Added to that, she needs to be attractive with a bubbly personality. Without that lady, the people are not going to come. I am not kidding myself, no way will the viewership be what it was during "the whack time."

These are my opinions and I am sure many will disagree.

 

[Mathman]

^ I agree with almost everything you (concorde) said (but I was afraid to say it. ) The only thing I disagree with is that the new lady needs to have a bubbly personality. I think she could be fierce like Serena Williams, or Goth and morose like -- you know, those Goth and morose young ladies.

By the way, if we want to talk about "girl's sports" and "boys sports," in the U.S.A. soccer is a girl's sport. Explain that to a European or South American.

About the history of figure skating, it was a boy's sport from the time of Jackson Haines until the time of Sonia Henie, then it became a girl's sport. Go figure.

Yes, there is a spectrum. Figure skating welcomes men who are 90% straight but open to new experiences. It is open to people who feel like they are a woman trapped in a man's body. And there would be nothing wrong (and it might pay off financially) with targeting the LGBT population with a specific marketing campaign.

 

[concorde]

Maybe "charismatic" is a better adjective than "bubbly" to describe the needed personality.

 

[brightphoton]

By the way, if we want to talk about "girl's sports" and "boys sports," in the U.S.A. soccer is a girl's sport. Explain that to a European or South American.

I think you mean, in the USA, soccer is a sport no one thinks about enough to even deem it a girl's or boy's sport.

 

[ice coverage]

... And there would be nothing wrong (and it might pay off financially) with targeting the LGBT population with a specific marketing campaign.

BTW, Nats in St. Paul apparently did target the LGBT population as potential spectators.

- The Twin Cities Gay Men's Chorus sang the National Anthem at Nats on Friday.
And sang again at the gala, in accompaniment to Ashley Wagner's skating.
The "TCGMC" discount code for Nats tickets was publicized on its Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/TCGMC/posts/1102016543171798​

And the chorus made at least one local TV appearance promoting Nats.

- Lavender Magazine ("GLBT" online and hard-copy mag based in Minnesota) published quite a few features leading up to Nats. And someone from the mag was active on Twitter during Nats.
I'm guessing that Lavender's coverage was the result in part of courting by USFS and/or the LOC.

---

I think you mean, in the USA, soccer is a sport no one thinks about enough to even deem it a girl's or boy's sport.

I'm guessing that you are not a parent? Or not a parent in the U.S.

If you are a parent in the U.S., I'm surprised that the ubiquity of young soccer players -- both girls and boys -- has escaped you.

 

[Mathman]

The other thing about soccer is that the U.S. women's team has won world championships and produced some reasonably well-known stars (Mia Hamm, Brandi Chastain, Abby Wambach, Carli Lloyd, Julie Foudy, Hope Solo). Not so for the U.S. men.

 

[brightphoton]

What sort of reasoning is that? If I were a parent of a child who did [x thing], of course I would think [x thing] is the best, most fantastic, most glorious thing in the entire universe. That doesn't mean [x thing] is translated into actual popularity.

Edit: Whoa, Hope Solo is a soccer player? I always thought she was a track and field runner. well, a husband-beating track and field runner haha

 

[ice coverage]

What sort of reasoning is that? If I were a parent of a child who did [x thing], of course I would think [x thing] is the best, most fantastic, most glorious thing in the entire universe. That doesn't mean [x thing] is translated into actual popularity. ...

You missed my point entirely. Maybe you don't know what "ubiquity" means.

Soccer is a very, very popular sport among U.S. schoolkids.

(And not because any one particular parent says so.)

 

[musicfan80]

I personally believe that accessibility is the key to bring back the figure skating audiences. We live in a day and age where social media is everywhere people can watch tv shows on Amazon, Hulu, and Netflix. I follow the GP season mostly on YouTube. The USFS needs to use all of the great tools to reach out to those casual fans. They could put out videos short on YouTube explaining about each discipline, how the scoring system works, different kinds of jumps,ect.

I am also a big fan of track & field, swimming, and gymnastics. USATF, USA Swimming, and USA Gymnastics all provid FREE steaming of major meets through YouTube. They also post a lot videos about their sport and athletes.

Do those federations have that much more $$$ than USFS? Or are they understanding some basics about exposure that USFS doesn't? I still don't get why they have so much content that needs a paid icenetwork subscription.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I personally believe that accessibility is the key to bring back the figure skating audiences. We live in a day and age where social media is everywhere people can watch tv shows on Amazon, Hulu, and Netflix. I follow the GP season mostly on YouTube. The USFS needs to use all of the great tools to reach out to those casual fans. They could put out videos short on YouTube explaining about each discipline, how the scoring system works, different kinds of jumps,ect.

I think you are right on here. They need to find a way to show off the sport so that people who are interested can access it easily. Of course social media is needed but I also think they need to put boots on the ground. I truly think they need to send a few of their elite skaters out on tours of the country and make stops at the rinks. They can skate with the locals and perform a little traveling gala event. Combine that with some sort of interactive media display at a public skate session and now you're starting to show people how fun the sport is and introducing them to our stars. Who wouldn't want to travel the country for a couple of weeks in June or July?

I am probably going to make my enemies by saying this but IN has almost entirely removed the casual viewer aspect of our sport. I don't think it's a coincidence that ratings have plummeted since its invention.

I do understand that stars on ice exists but that doesn't really reach out to local skaters in the way I think a mini tour would.

 

[padme21]

I remember after the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Swimmers Ryan Loche and Cullen Jones who were Olympic medalist went on a tour across the country visiting swim clubs and teaching kids tips about swimming and answers questions. We need something similar in figure skating. Dancing with the Stars is nice but it's not really hands on or open to the public. If we had little mini skating camp where you had world medalist and Olympic medalist like Cohen, Kwan, Evan, teaching people all about skating for kids,and adults a like I think it'd have a huge impact on the sport.

 

[mrrice]

Sam Skwantch said,
I am probably going to make my enemies by saying this but IN has almost entirely removed the casual viewer aspect of our sport. I don't think it's a coincidence that ratings have plummeted since its invention.

I agree completely agree with this comment. The fact that a sport who claims to be losing popularity had the nerve to charge it's fans to view an event that they could offer for free is ridiculous. Good grief, I'm in California and I can watch 10 Rounds of Wimbledon for free and I have to PAY to watch an event that's happening here in the US?? Forget it!

 

[brightphoton]

You missed my point entirely. Maybe you don't know what "ubiquity" means.

Soccer is a very, very popular sport among U.S. schoolkids.

(And not because any one particular parent says so.)

So? It doesn't translate to popularity for adult soccer, which is the one that matters, for me at least. Vastly more people care about the World Cup than the Harold Elementary School's semester soccer championships.