Figure skating and modern dance

[gkelly]

As a parallel to the ballet thread...

I don't have a specific theoretical topic to raise. I just thought we could use the thread for discussing ways in which "modern dance" traditions have informed figure skating, separately from ballet or ballroom.

A few videos to begin with:

John Curry - After All

An amazing number by John from his 1980 special Ice Dancing. Mesmeric!!

www.youtube.com

Paul Wylie 1996 Battle of the Sexes SP Touch Me

www.youtube.com

2011 2012 Worlds Pairs LP Aliona Savchenko & Robin Szolkowy Pina

www.youtube.com

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

 

[gkelly]

Some more videos, showing women starting to get into the act in the 1990s.

Jeri Campbell (USA) - 1994 U.S. Open Professionals, Ladies' Artistic Program

Worcester, Massachusetts, USA - 1994 U.S. Open Professional Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Artistic Program - First, an interview with Yuka Sato of Ja...

www.youtube.com

TERENCE TRENT D'ARBY - by DENISE BIELLMANN & MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM DENISE AT THE END

SHE MAY HAVE NEVER WON THE OLYMPICS, BUT HAD THE NASTY HABIT OF BEATING ALL THE WORLD & OLYMPIC CHAMPIONS ON A REGULAR BASIS, IN OTHER COMPETITIONS.......JUS...

www.youtube.com

1996 Nationals Short Program

www.youtube.com

More recent examples, more competitive programs?

 

[el henry]

Thank you for starting the thread, @gkelly !

I am having trouble because “modern dance“ is so incredibly broad.

Are we talking hip hop?

Are we talking Alvin Ailey Dance Theater?

Are we talking Twyla Tharp?

i don’t see any uniting theme in dance styles or music in the examples you have kindly collated, so I dont know what to say. Do you see a common theme or common movements?

I will listen to others more well versed in the subject than I, which doesn’t take much.

 

[gkelly]

The examples in the first post were either choreographed by stage choreographers from the world of Modern Dance (Twyla Tharp, Lar Lubovitch) or inspired by modern dance choreographers (Pina Bausch, Martha Graham).

In the second post, I chose some earlyish examples of women using their whole bodies in ways that were clearly intentional and clearly not balletic, though I don't necessarily know who choreographed the programs.

I did study some dance history in college and grad school, but I wonder whether there are other posters here with more knowledge.


I think of hiphop, street dance, or jazz dance as something else, although we can certainly discuss them in this thread as well.

 

[el henry]

The examples in the first post were either choreographed by stage choreographers from the world of Modern Dance (Twyla Tharp, Lar Lubovitch) or inspired by modern dance choreographers (Pina Bausch, Martha Graham).

In the second post, I chose some earlyish examples of women using their whole bodies in ways that were clearly intentional and clearly not balletic, though I don't necessarily know who choreographed the programs.

I did study some dance history in college and grad school, but I wonder whether there are other posters here with more knowledge.


I think of hiphop, street dance, or jazz dance as something else, although we can certainly discuss them in this thread as well.

Thank you, I don't know enough about the movements to say how well they are incorporated in programs, so I will leave to others.

Specific question (with obviously a vested interest): where does Alvin Ailey fall in this range? Or don't you have an opinion on that?

 

[gkelly]

Specific question (with obviously a vested interest): where does Alvin Ailey fall in this range? Or don't you have an opinion on that?

Ailey is considered a modern dance choreographer.

I'm not aware offhand of skating programs inspired by his work. Do you know any?

 

[Anna K.]

Thank you for the thread!

Theoretic topics change, so I think I'll modify the classical ballet thread name into "figure skating and classical ballet" to complete the parallel. Unless somebody will suggest something better

Now I'm wondering if martial arts, circus arts and gymnastics should be discussed all in one thread or in separate threads? Because there are not that many touching points as with ballet or modern dance.

 

[Tavi...]

Ailey is considered a modern dance choreographer.

I'm not aware offhand of skating programs inspired by his work. Do you know any?

Sinnerman. This is 2020 but he’s kept it for this season.

Jason Brown 2020 U S Nationals SP no commentary Nina Simone Sinnerman

Jason Brown 2020 U S Nationals SP no commentary Nina Simone Sinnerman

youtu.be

Article

Jason Brown, Rohene Ward seek to spread the light with “Sinnerman” program

When choreographer Rohene Ward contemplates a new program for Jason Brown, he asks himself: How are we trying to touch people? With frustrations in the Black community growing and COVID-19 tighteni…

olympics.nbcsports.com

 

[gkelly]

Now I'm wondering if martial arts, circus arts and gymnastics should be discussed all in one thread or in separate threads? Because there are not that many touching points as with ballet or modern dance.

Probably circus and gymnastics could go together -- or call it acrobatics?

Martial arts is different, but it would probably be a shorter thread.

Sinnerman. This is 2020 but he’s kept it for this season.

Jason Brown 2020 U S Nationals SP no commentary Nina Simone Sinnerman

Jason Brown 2020 U S Nationals SP no commentary Nina Simone Sinnerman

youtu.be

Article

Jason Brown, Rohene Ward seek to spread the light with “Sinnerman” program

When choreographer Rohene Ward contemplates a new program for Jason Brown, he asks himself: How are we trying to touch people? With frustrations in the Black community growing and COVID-19 tighteni…

olympics.nbcsports.com

Great program. Thanks for the article link.

 

[Anna K.]

Probably circus and gymnastics could go together -- or call it acrobatics?

Martial arts is different, but it would probably be a shorter thread.

Acrobatics as the touching ground for circus, gymnastics and figure skating, yes! But this is also very deep relation, just like ballroom dance would be with ice dance... It's complicated.

Anyway, now we have two new threads with many videos, classical ballet thread and modern dance thread. I'm happy already!

 

[ribbit]

In a rare departure from choreographing for themselves, Torvill and Dean brought in the choreographer Graeme Murphy, the director of the Sydney Dance Company, for their 1985-6 tour. Reviewing a performance for the New York Times, Anna Kisselgoff, the paper's principal dance critic, attributed "Song of India" and many of the ensemble numbers to Murphy. You can read her review here.

Wikipedia agrees and also credits the 1986 full-length "narrative ballet on ice" Fire and Ice jointly to Torvill and Dean and Murphy.

The only videos of "Song of India" I can easily find on YouTube come from its original performances in the 1984 Royal Variety Show and World Professional Championships; Kisselgoff's review implies that an ensemble may have been added to the tour version, but I didn't see a video on a first quick search.

Torvill & Dean (GBR) - 1984 World Professional Championship, Ice Dancing, Tech Dance "Song of India"

Landover, Maryland, USA - 1984 World Professional Figure Skating Championships, Ice Dancing, Technical Dance - Jayne Torvill and Christopher Dean of Great Br...

www.youtube.com

Fire and Ice has been posted to YouTube as a Betamax capture (of all things):

Torvill & Dean In Fire & Ice (VHS Capture) FULL SHOW

Torvill and Dean in fire and ice a musical dance ice skating/dance video very well shot with an over arching story to follow. taken from betamax tape. sharp ...

www.youtube.com

(edited to fix video links)

 

[eppen]

It is far more difficult to find the modern dance in skating than the classical ballet ;-) No such clear use of music from ballets or even movement vocabulary/styles. However, some stuff that Benoit Richaud does have more a whiff of modern dance than classical ballet, the way he uses body movement particularly IMO. Not everything ofc because he does a lot of different things, but I was thinking perhaps routines like Ekaterina Kurakova's short for this season.

My main reason for this post are Susanna Rahkamo and Petri Kokko from the early 1990s. They collaborated with the then director of the Finnish National Ballet, Jorma Uotinen, who as a choreographer has always been firmly in modern dance rather than anything else. These two I am pretty sure were by Uotinen: 1991-2 free to Rene Aubry's music and Sibelius's Valse Triste a year later.

E

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Definitely Benoit, who I was going to suggest yesterday, but was too busy to reply. Benoit's genius work for Abbott.

Some teams definitely Rahkamo and Kokko as listed above.
Ice Dancers Zhigashina/Gazsi from Germany were always on the cutting edge of choreo and themes (mostly modern) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqRywdhLoKk
Many thought they were weird, but they were definitely in their own league with choreography and concepts. I miss their creativity.

Several Modern Dance and other styles (Jazz/Swing), Ballroom and Ballet choreographers have worked with figure skaters in the past:
Travis Wall-Modern (Adam Rippon),
Benji Schwimmer- West Coast Swing and hip hop (Jeremy Abbott) who also choreographed Rippon's Birds FS,
Sharna Burgess-(Specialty: Ballroom) & Alex Wong-Ballet (Davis/White),
Mark Ballas-(Evan Lysacek).

There are others, I just don't have the time to go through and list them rn.

NOTE: I am not saying the programs done by each of the choreographers are the style I have next to their name, that is simply me stating their specialty.

Also, Jeremy Abbott-Lillies of the Valley from Pina choreo by Robin Cousins

 

[ribbit]

One more: Aliona Savchenko and Robin Szolkowy did their 2011-12 FS to music from Pina, a documentary about the legendary modern dancer/choreographer Pina Bausch. I don't know enough about her work to know how far the movement was inspired by her work, but I would guess that there was some influence:

Aliona SAVCHENKO/ Robin SZOLKOWY LP WC 2012 (no commentary)

www.youtube.com

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Not sure if neo-folk styles count, but if so, Antonio Najarro (flamenco dancer) has worked with a number of skaters. One recent example is Hurtado/Khaliavin's flamenco-themed LP in 2019-20(-21): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN1JdPG0l6k

 

[sworddance21]

Thank you for starting the thread, @gkelly !

I am having trouble because “modern dance“ is so incredibly broad.

Are we talking hip hop?

Are we talking Alvin Ailey Dance Theater?

Are we talking Twyla Tharp?

i don’t see any uniting theme in dance styles or music in the examples you have kindly collated, so I dont know what to say. Do you see a common theme or common movements?

I will listen to others more well versed in the subject than I, which doesn’t take much.

What we tend to refer to as "modern dance" began to emerge in the early very 1900's as a specific reaction to ballet in the America. Generally, the movement is traced to Isadora Duncan, then Martha Graham and Doris Humphrey. These dancers were beginning to explore more freedom of movement and eschewing the restrictions of ballet. Flexed feet, angular movement, taking the body away from center. As the movement developed, the different choreographers/teachers developed their own techniques to teach dancers how to move the way they wanted them to. Over simplifying here - but the Graham tree tends to much more angular movement - tension and emotion very prominent. Doris Humphrey began to explore fall and recovery -taking the body away from the center and returning it. Swinging/dropping. Of course, over the years different choreographers expanded and developed those branches of the tree. Lester Horton (Alvin Ailey Company's technique) wanted to create dancers who could do just about anything - not specifically HIS choreography. (Although Horton based choreography has a very specific look.) Today we also hear talk of contemporary dance - which to me combines the principles of both modern choreography and ballet technique. You'll see fall and recovery movements combined with classical ballet turns and lines.

 

[Anna K.]

What we tend to refer to as "modern dance" began to emerge in the early very 1900's as a specific reaction to ballet in the America. Generally, the movement is traced to Isadora Duncan, then Martha Graham and Doris Humphrey. These dancers were beginning to explore more freedom of movement and eschewing the restrictions of ballet. Flexed feet, angular movement, taking the body away from center. As the movement developed, the different choreographers/teachers developed their own techniques to teach dancers how to move the way they wanted them to. Over simplifying here - but the Graham tree tends to much more angular movement - tension and emotion very prominent. Doris Humphrey began to explore fall and recovery -taking the body away from the center and returning it. Swinging/dropping. Of course, over the years different choreographers expanded and developed those branches of the tree. Lester Horton (Alvin Ailey Company's technique) wanted to create dancers who could do just about anything - not specifically HIS choreography. (Although Horton based choreography has a very specific look.) Today we also hear talk of contemporary dance - which to me combines the principles of both modern choreography and ballet technique. You'll see fall and recovery movements combined with classical ballet turns and lines.

I'd say it doesn't exclude us talking hip-hop
My point is, in a dance that is meant for stage (and so are all mentioned examples), hip-hop or any other "normal" dance can't be present in a way we dance it at home or how it is expected in a dance contest because a "normal" dance doesn't contain a story or a dance philosophy for display. As soon as the latter is added, it becomes a modern dance, or contemporary dance etc. that comes from the origin or uses elements of hip-hop (or other).

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I'd say it doesn't exclude us talking hip-hop
My point is, in a dance that is meant for stage (and so are all mentioned examples), hip-hop or any other "normal" dance can't be present in a way we dance it at home or how it is expected in a dance contest because a "normal" dance doesn't contain a story or a dance philosophy for display. As soon as the latter is added, it becomes a modern dance, or contemporary dance etc. that comes from the origin or uses elements of hip-hop (or other).

Then please explain why all ballets are a story.

 

[Anna K.]

Then please explain why all ballets are a story.

Because ballets consist of dance that is meant for stage.

 

[sworddance21]

I'd say it doesn't exclude us talking hip-hop
My point is, in a dance that is meant for stage (and so are all mentioned examples), hip-hop or any other "normal" dance can't be present in a way we dance it at home or how it is expected in a dance contest because a "normal" dance doesn't contain a story or a dance philosophy for display. As soon as the latter is added, it becomes a modern dance, or contemporary dance etc. that comes from the origin or uses elements of hip-hop (or other).

I'm not sure I'm following your logic at all. From a dance history perspective, "modern" dance as a genre refers specifically to the moment I discussed. I was simply answering el henry's question. "Contemporary" dance combines the two. Hip Hop would be it's own genre (and certainly a valid discussion with regard to how it translates to ice), and while it is certainly of the modern times, it would not be thought of as "modern dance".

I also don't understand what you are saying about story. Any genre of dance can have a story. Ballet generally has a story (although not always). Modern dances often tell a story. I've seen pretty awesome hip hop dances that tell a story. A choreographer can use any technique/genre and simply create movement to music, or use it to tell a story. Having or not having a story has nothing to do with the style or technique of dance that is being used.