Figure Skating and Classical Ballet
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[Re-posted: extended + video links]
Olympic Games Beijing 2022: What is the current state of classical ballet programs in figure skating? Is this still a relevant judge-friendly choice for medal hopefuls?
I would broaden the concept of "classical ballet program" to "classical music program, balletic (or ballet-mimicking but who cares) appearance" and say yes. Is ballet the best choice for specific skaters though? Is it creative approach or just recycled old approaches to play it safe?
I will probably write (who else?
) about these and other ballet-related topics after Olympic performances. For now, there are the honorable mentions that didn't make the Games:
Kolyada's Nutcracker short program has been mentioned many times in this thread so I will not return to it except for saying that it is indeed a massive loss not to see it on the Olympic stage. So is Tuktamisheva's Scheherazade long program.
Muramoto/Takahashi La Bayadere programwith its ballet ambition was obviously chosen to be judge-friendly and raise the PCS of the sophomore team. I'd say it worked especially internationally where they constantly scored higher than their rival team Komatsubara/Koleto while technically being about the same level. It did not work for the national federation though who decided to send Kp/Ko to Olympics. Judge-friendliness not an argument for Japanese Fed?
Sena Miyake skated to a Swan Lake music compilation in 4CC where it brought him higher PCS (lower 7.67, higher 8.04) than for his short program, same event (lower 6.83, higher 7.25). Although I enjoyed it, it also brought an issue to the surface: there is (and has been for a long time) a tendency to emulate famous skaters' ballet programs rather than being creative to ensure a judge-friendly performance. Correct me if I am wrong but I've got an impression Japanese skaters are even more "guilty" in this than skaters from other countries. This is of course subjective but after watching lots of Japanese skaters' ballet programs I honestly felt like, may somebody tell them that one-black-one-white sleeves are not mandatory for Swan Lake and no, Giselle doesn't have to wear teal skirt to show that this is Giselle? It seems that, in Japan, nobody has doubted this for decades. I'd appreciate if somebody could explain to me this phenomenon in Japanese figure skating.
Shout-out for Isabeau Levito, who chose less known musical piece from Swan Lake for her senior debut in US Nationals, also know separately as Russian Dance by Tchaikovsky. This highlights an opposite problem though: in such case, neither general audience nor judges fully recognize this a a piece from ballet and its balletic heritage or potential, like in Isabeau's case, sadly remain unused.
Olympic Games Beijing 2022: What is the current state of classical ballet programs in figure skating? Is this still a relevant judge-friendly choice for medal hopefuls?
I would broaden the concept of "classical ballet program" to "classical music program, balletic (or ballet-mimicking but who cares) appearance" and say yes. Is ballet the best choice for specific skaters though? Is it creative approach or just recycled old approaches to play it safe?
I will probably write (who else?
) about these and other ballet-related topics after Olympic performances. For now, there are the honorable mentions that didn't make the Games:Kolyada's Nutcracker short program has been mentioned many times in this thread so I will not return to it except for saying that it is indeed a massive loss not to see it on the Olympic stage. So is Tuktamisheva's Scheherazade long program.
Muramoto/Takahashi La Bayadere programwith its ballet ambition was obviously chosen to be judge-friendly and raise the PCS of the sophomore team. I'd say it worked especially internationally where they constantly scored higher than their rival team Komatsubara/Koleto while technically being about the same level. It did not work for the national federation though who decided to send Kp/Ko to Olympics. Judge-friendliness not an argument for Japanese Fed?
Sena Miyake skated to a Swan Lake music compilation in 4CC where it brought him higher PCS (lower 7.67, higher 8.04) than for his short program, same event (lower 6.83, higher 7.25). Although I enjoyed it, it also brought an issue to the surface: there is (and has been for a long time) a tendency to emulate famous skaters' ballet programs rather than being creative to ensure a judge-friendly performance. Correct me if I am wrong but I've got an impression Japanese skaters are even more "guilty" in this than skaters from other countries. This is of course subjective but after watching lots of Japanese skaters' ballet programs I honestly felt like, may somebody tell them that one-black-one-white sleeves are not mandatory for Swan Lake and no, Giselle doesn't have to wear teal skirt to show that this is Giselle? It seems that, in Japan, nobody has doubted this for decades. I'd appreciate if somebody could explain to me this phenomenon in Japanese figure skating.
Shout-out for Isabeau Levito, who chose less known musical piece from Swan Lake for her senior debut in US Nationals, also know separately as Russian Dance by Tchaikovsky. This highlights an opposite problem though: in such case, neither general audience nor judges fully recognize this a a piece from ballet and its balletic heritage or potential, like in Isabeau's case, sadly remain unused.
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The Olympics are a little less interesting without Muramoto/Takahashi. Their free dance is ballet on ice and would have mesmerized the crowd. But they weren't a medal contender (except in the Team Event), so Japan decided to go with the winner at Nationals.[Re-posted: extended + video links]
Olympic Games Beijing 2022: What is the current state of classical ballet programs in figure skating? Is this still a relevant judge-friendly choice for medal hopefuls?
I would broaden the concept of "classical ballet program" to "classical music program, balletic (or ballet-mimicking but who cares) appearance" and say yes. Is ballet the best choice for specific skaters though? Is it creative approach or just recycled old approaches to play it safe?
I will probably write (who else?
Muramoto/Takahashi La Bayadere programwith its ballet ambition was obviously chosen to be judge-friendly and raise the PCS of the sophomore team. I'd say it worked especially internationally where they constantly scored higher than their rival team Komatsubara/Koleto while technically being about the same level. It did not work for the national federation though who decided to send Kp/Ko to Olympics. Judge-friendliness not an argument for Japanese Fed?
Sena Miyake skated to a Swan Lake music compilation in 4CC where it brought him higher PCS (lower 7.67, higher 8.04) than for his short program, same event (lower 6.83, higher 7.25). Although I enjoyed it, it also brought an issue to the surface: there is (and has been for a long time) a tendency to emulate famous skaters' ballet programs rather than being creative to ensure a judge-friendly performance. Correct me if I am wrong but I've got an impression Japanese skaters are even more "guilty" in this than skaters from other countries. This is of course subjective but after watching lots of Japanese skaters' ballet programs I honestly felt like, may somebody tell them that one-black-one-white sleeves are not mandatory for Swan Lake and no, Giselle doesn't have to wear teal skirt to show that this is Giselle? It seems that, in Japan, nobody has doubted this for decades. I'd appreciate if somebody could explain to me this phenomenon in Japanese figure skating.
Shout-out for Isabeau Levito, who chose less known musical piece from Swan Lake for her senior debut in US Nationals, also know separately as Russian Dance by Tchaikovsky. This highlights an opposite problem though: in such case, neither general audience nor judges fully recognize this a a piece from ballet and its balletic heritage or potential, like in Isabeau's case, sadly remain unused.
My hart is still bleeding.
Olympics is a rare moment of spotlight on figure skating. Their program was the best ballet program seen in years that absolutely deserved this spotlight. And we all know that this team would have their share of spotlight despite of not competing for medals. Not the case with Komatsubaru/Koleto who are lovely but don't stand out. Because, you know, all dancers are lovely.
Then there is the sports perspective. Right, the few points more, one or two spots higher that M/T might earn with their higher PCS probably won't be decisive in the Team Event at the end of the day. But still, I refuse to understand the logic of a Federation which is not hungry for every single extra point they could potentially get. I just can't.
I just wanted to quote it here from Define Lambiel's Coaching Style thread with a hope that we might talk about the importance of posture and carriage to provide an impression of elegant skate (which is pretty much also what works for classical ballet).
After you posted this, I watched Brian Orser's Olympic short program from 1988 for reference. Although this program has no ballet music or any choreography that would intentionally remind classical ballet, the posture and control that he has made me think of ballet immediately. And now I'm getting paranoid because I see him not just in Hanyu but also in Cha and even in Fernandez despite that they have different personalities and very different choreography
.What they all have in common and what Brian Orser had as a skater summed up in my mind in these exact words: posture and carriage that gives an impression of elegant skate.
So, is it really some ballet impact or is it just a parallel with classical ballet?
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Or maybe a common cause? Now that you're suggesting it, I think I'll review some skates from the two latter's, from their TCC times.I just wanted to quote it here from Define Lambiel's Coaching Style thread with a hope that we might talk about the importance of posture and carriage to provide an impression of elegant skate (which is pretty much also what works for classical ballet).
After you posted this, I watched Brian Orser's Olympic short program from 1988 for reference. Although this program has no ballet music or any choreography that would intentionally remind classical ballet, the posture and control that he has made me think of ballet immediately. And now I'm getting paranoid because I see him not just in Hanyu but also in Cha and even in Fernandez despite that they have different personalities and very different choreography
What they all have in common and what Brian Orser had as a skater summed up in my mind in these exact words: posture and carriage that gives an impression of elegant skate.
So, is it really some ballet impact or is it just a parallel with classical ballet?
I think coaching may give such legacy in posture and carriage, while some iconic move can be caught by anybody, like we still see Ekaterina Maximova's smile on some young ballerinas schooled in Russia, or attempts at Sylvie Guillem's head carriage in ballerinas schooled at Paris Opera School, but that was rarely good, only Sylvie Guillem can do it beautifully. And then, I don't know if this happens in Figure Skating. Have you noticed some iconic gesture caught by younger skaters from older ones?
Now when you asked, it certainly looks that some Ladies emulate Sonya Henie up to this day - and maybe even some of those who skate in Pairs
It's a good question though if they know that they do because henie-ism may well be passed over from generation to generation
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Tessa Virtue was, AFAIK, equally into ballet and skating when she was young. Apparently she passed up an opportunity to train at the National Ballet School to focus on her skating but I have seen pictures of her in pointe shoes so she must have continued dance to some extent. I think Scott became involved to a degree as well to improve their skating posture and carriage. At one point they did an exhibition programme that was fun which started with them exercising at a portable barre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9zAnA0H9bs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9zAnA0H9bs
This exhibition is awesome
And it is also a thoroughly realistic story about how things sometimes evolve in ballet classes
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What do we think of Lucinda Ruh's interpretation of Black Swan? She was like the star no one heard of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zF-p1bOHFM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zF-p1bOHFM
Also yes, thank you Isabeau. I love that song and wouldn't have found it if it wasn't for her. I especially like the part that lines up with her dropping into the broken leg spin.
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I have three skaters to add to the discussion
Alice Sue Claeys
Alyssa Czisny
Caryn Kadavy
Alice Sue Claeys
Alyssa Czisny
Caryn Kadavy
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Ok a little 
for ballet but on topic for Lucinda, kind of what people touched on before, this isn't, to my knowledge, a piece of music made for a ballet, however it is lyrical and I feel that she is a shining example of balletic posture and carriage (as she has trained to be a ballet dancer) even though the piece isn't necessarily "balletic".
for ballet but on topic for Lucinda, kind of what people touched on before, this isn't, to my knowledge, a piece of music made for a ballet, however it is lyrical and I feel that she is a shining example of balletic posture and carriage (as she has trained to be a ballet dancer) even though the piece isn't necessarily "balletic".- Joined
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Also I didn't know she was capable of a 3F so "Good for you Lucinda Ruh!" (If you know, you know)
Ok a little
Don't break my heart by saying this is off topic! It's enough to look at her beginning pose, these arabesque lines, these hands
How does it possibly get more balletic than that?The topic itself is in fact pretty broad because figure skating and classical ballet interfere in many different ways (I still like the first pages where it was actually a discussion about what makes a performance "balletic"). And Lucinda's way is absolutely beautiful!
I came across this while doing research for Lambiel's coaching thread; had some doubts where to post it but once we have Diaghilev ballets on this thread then apparently also Bejard Ballet and other contemporary stuff belongs here.
And so, here go three versions of Brel's Ne Me Quitte Pas,
the ice version by Stephane Lambiel:
And so, here go three versions of Brel's Ne Me Quitte Pas,
the ice version by Stephane Lambiel:
the contemporary ballet version from Brel show by Bejard Ballet:- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.www.youtube.com
and the parody version from Cirque du Soleil show Varekai- simply because I don't want you to die from depression after watching two emotional performances to an extremely sad song:
Elisabeth Ros, Ne me Quitte pas
Une variation sur la musique de "Ne me Quitte pas" de Jacques Brel, dansée par Elisabeth Ros en 2005,extrait du spectacle de Maurice Béjart ""Brel Barbara pa...
Cirque du Soleil's Varekai - "Ne me quitte pas" (Claudio Carneiro)
Claudio Carneiro's clown act from Varekai.
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This is wonderful!
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