From River Dance to Schindler's List

[Mrs. P]

I might be in the minority. I like Jason's older programs than the ones from this season and last season. His programs now feel more modern, but have also become more generic with less dance moves and transitions. Riverdance was great, but my fav is actually the "Inner Love" LP from the first half of 2017-2018 season https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFr7kZQ8W84

The music was specifically made for the program, and the program is more like a demanding ice dance program. I could see it was quite challenging so Jason had to switch to his old LP by US nationals in order to get qualified for the Olympics.

Jason actually switched back to the Piano program just for 4CC. He did Inner Love for nationals. I agree it was a special program, but I think Jason just never really connected with it and with all the other issues happening that season the program’s potential was never realized sadly.

It is funny how Ice Dance-y his older programs are but I actually like the new programs. YMMV, but I feel like the programs better highlight the clarity of movement, strong edges and interpretation that he has. His old programs were great but I feel like sometimes there was so many transitions that it didn’t really give him space to shine or hold anything. I think a criticism he got early in the last quad is that he was more of a choreographed artist. Namely that he was performing lots of choreography but not really expressing himself.

If you read his old interviews he basically states flat out that he just went with whatever Rohene asked him to do and yes he did those transition packed programs well. But I think now he takes more ownership of his program and has given more thought in what he wants to express and I think they are choreographed to allow him to perhaps show more of him and less to say “ta-da! Look at me performing!”

 

[Ruthypegs]

ladyjane: I gave you a thumbs up on your post (and for starting this thread!), but that's not enough----you have said just about everything I think and have been thinking about Jason since 2015 also. I do marvel at the sheer athleticism of those who can and do perform all of those quads, and especially at those who do those well and also manage to skate interestingly and well in between (like Nathan), but, for me, if there were no Jasons in the mix(and he is the #1 example), figure skating might just loose its appeal for me. There are plenty of other sports I enjoy for the technical thrills, but I want figure skating to be beautiful and meaningful.
Thank you, Jason Brown!

Totally agree!! Thanks for expressing this so well.

 

[NanaPat]

I believe this thread may have been swiffered; I just read it for the first time, so can't comment (and am not influenced by) any removed posts.

My take on Jason is quite a bit like TontoK's; was attracted by Riverdance, lost interest, and found a renewed interest/admiration for him this year.

As far as "no criticism allowed, it's a FanFest", you can't have it both ways. This thread was started in The Edge to generate interest. But The Edge is for discussion, and you can't expect FanFest rules to apply here.

 

[karne]

I believe this thread may have been swiffered; I just read it for the first time, so can't comment (and am not influenced by) any removed posts.

My take on Jason is quite a bit like TontoK's; was attracted by Riverdance, lost interest, and found a renewed interest/admiration for him this year.

As far as "no criticism allowed, it's a FanFest", you can't have it both ways. This thread was started in The Edge to generate interest. But The Edge is for discussion, and you can't expect FanFest rules to apply here.

It got moved from here to FF and then back, and some posts were lost along the way.

No-one's ever said "no criticism allowed", by the way. But I think the world in general should be objecting to a poster stating that a skater is not a man unless he behaves in a way the poster approves, which was the real point that is now being avoided.

 

[NanaPat]

The tweet that changed my view of Jason. It was in post 11911 (page 596) of his fanfest.

It shows Jason and sidekicks waving and talking to Tracy, who was above them at the broadcast table, at Skate Canada 2018.

https://twitter.com/labellanunez27/status/1057440964724355072

Nothing wrong with it until you turn on the sound and listen to what is going on in the background. It was the tribute to Dennis Ten shortly after his death. You can hear Kaitlyn Weaver's voice choked with tears and see Jason waving madly at Tracy.

I'm sure he blocked it out completely and wasn't deliberately yucking it up during a memorial, but it made me look at him differently.

 

[el henry]

The tweet that changed my view of Jason. It was in post 11911 (page 596) of his fanfest.

It shows Jason and sidekicks waving and talking to Tracy, who was above them at the broadcast table, at Skate Canada 2018.

https://twitter.com/labellanunez27/status/1057440964724355072

Nothing wrong with it until you turn on the sound and listen to what is going on in the background. It was the tribute to Dennis Ten shortly after his death. You can hear Kaitlyn Weaver's voice choked with tears and see Jason waving madly at Tracy.

I'm sure he blocked it out completely and wasn't deliberately yucking it up during a memorial, but it made me look at him differently.

Wow, I have to say that even if Jason was waving during a memorial tribute, that judgment is not one I would ever make about a skater. And apparently you now have the same low opinion of Jun and Zhenya, since they did same thing

Then again, how a skater acts during the KnC or during practice makes very little difference to me. And considering how much Kaitlyn Weaver loves Jason, it appears to have made very little difference to her either.

 

[Tavi...]

The tweet that changed my view of Jason. It was in post 11911 (page 596) of his fanfest.

It shows Jason and sidekicks waving and talking to Tracy, who was above them at the broadcast table, at Skate Canada 2018.

https://twitter.com/labellanunez27/status/1057440964724355072

Nothing wrong with it until you turn on the sound and listen to what is going on in the background. It was the tribute to Dennis Ten shortly after his death. You can hear Kaitlyn Weaver's voice choked with tears and see Jason waving madly at Tracy.

I'm sure he blocked it out completely and wasn't deliberately yucking it up during a memorial, but it made me look at him differently.

People are respectful in different ways. Perhaps you overlooked these:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Blannf8h5rV/?igshid=rcs1i1d0231i
https://twitter.com/MedvedevaNation/status/1091773764054978561?s=20

 

[Mrs. P]

The tweet that changed my view of Jason. It was in post 11911 (page 596) of his fanfest.

It shows Jason and sidekicks waving and talking to Tracy, who was above them at the broadcast table, at Skate Canada 2018.

https://twitter.com/labellanunez27/status/1057440964724355072

Nothing wrong with it until you turn on the sound and listen to what is going on in the background. It was the tribute to Dennis Ten shortly after his death. You can hear Kaitlyn Weaver's voice choked with tears and see Jason waving madly at Tracy.

I'm sure he blocked it out completely and wasn't deliberately yucking it up during a memorial, but it made me look at him differently.

Well it's so fortunate that you got to see Jason and the TCC crew is because the reason that video exists in the first place is that somebody in the audience filmed them. So that audience member wasn't paying attention either.

IIRC, it was a video that played during the intermission of the gala and not during the gala itself. That's why the lights were on. So they were just saying hi to their coach during intermission. I wasn't at the gala but I knew people that were and most of them recalled how nice it was that they were able to hi to Tracy when she wasn't working.

They played that Denis Ten memorial video during other points of the competition -- I remember it during an ice resurfacing when I was at the arena. So it wasn't like Jason, Zhenya and Jun were chatting with Tracy during a formal memorial.

(Also Kaitlyn wasn't at Skate Canada, she was on the Thank You Canada Tour, which was in Ontario at the time).

 

[noskates]

I guess what bothers me about this is someone made an observation and a decision based on an incident that was taken out of context. Come on people - really? I don't think there is a figure skater out there that didn't feel the impact of Denis' violent and untimely death - and to think otherwise is uninformed and shallow. There is a major drawback to social media and this illustrates it in a blazing fashion,

 

[Mrs. P]

I guess what bothers me about this is someone made an observation and a decision based on an incident that was taken out of context. Come on people - really? I don't think there is a figure skater out there that didn't feel the impact of Denis' violent and untimely death - and to think otherwise is uninformed and shallow. There is a major drawback to social media and this illustrates it in a blazing fashion,

Not to mention that Jason does a LOT of nice things, like donate the stuffed animals he gets at competitions to the Ronald McDonald House and just, in general, is pretty respectful to other skaters.

I was really enjoying the discussion on his choreography evolution so I hope we can get back to that.

 

[ice coverage]

I am fine with giving Jason the benefit of the doubt.

I just hope that other skaters (whether personal favorites or not) will be given as much benefit of the doubt if videos of them are brought up for scrutiny -- for whatever reason.

... (Also Kaitlyn wasn't at Skate Canada, she was on the Thank You Canada Tour, which was in Ontario at the time).

I was not there, but I thought NanaPat meant that it was Kaitlyn's emotional voice on video being played in the arena??

 

[NanaPat]

Of course Jason does a lot of good things, and I don't discount them because of single unfortunate incident.

But I do think that that incident was the down side of the youthful exuberance Jason showed in his early skating (and social media, Kiss'n'cry reactions, videos, etc). I believe he's matured a lot since then, both in his skating and in the way he presents himself.

 

[Mrs. P]

I've followed him through the years, seen his struggles (and injuries) but also many more beautiful, well skated programmes. He always managed to deliver on the beautiful skating, even when the jumps were just not there for whatever reason. And then he came up with Schindler's list. I've seen the film, I've been impressed by the Auswitch memorial events, I've watched other skaters compete and perform to this music, but to me only Jason really does it justice. I won't go into the debate about costuming to such music or even into whether you should be mature to comprehend the music you're skating to (although Jason himself definitely does) but what I saw at his Nationals competition last weekend was just mind blowing.

Hey ladyjane! I really appreciate you starting this thread, there's been some interesting discusison! I was wondering if you happened to hear Jason's talk about his desire to be mature ebough to skate to SL? He's mentioned it several times this season, and he did talk about it during the free skate press conference.

 

[noskates]

Let me just say that bringing up videos of skaters OUT OF CONTEXT to scrutinize is not only unfair to the skater but just creates tension in and controversy on a message board. There are so many nice things to discuss following Europeans and Nationals that have to do with figure skating - not some imagined disrespect of someone who was known and well-loved. I cannot imagine Jason in any universe disrespecting the memory of Denis Ten. It just isn't in him.

And I understand completely about his feelings about Schindler's List. It's a hauntingly beautiful piece of music that represents a story of one of the most egregious times in the history of this world. The pain and suffering and inhumanity of the holocaust goes beyond triple axels and footwork. The fact that Jason is Jewish made his presentation even more meaningful to him, I'm sure, and he wanted to get it right. Had nothing to do with maturity or manliness (when did either of those count in figure skating anyway.....)

 

[Mrs. P]

And I understand completely about his feelings about Schindler's List. It's a hauntingly beautiful piece of music that represents a story of one of the most egregious times in the history of this world. The pain and suffering and inhumanity of the holocaust goes beyond triple axels and footwork. The fact that Jason is Jewish made his presentation even more meaningful to him, I'm sure, and he wanted to get it right. Had nothing to do with maturity or manliness (when did either of those count in figure skating anyway.....)

Maturity, in this case, is a factor since a big reason Jason is doing it is that he felt he was "mature" enough to handle it. It sounds like he wanted to skate to it for many years but wanted to wait for the right time.

I think a big difference between Riverdance and SL, actually, is ownership. Riverdance was a well-choreographed program that gained traction because Jason was such a great performer, but the idea stemmed from Rohene and his vision for that program.

SL I think was more of a collaboration between Jason and David Wilson and Jason was the one that approached DW with the idea of skating to that music. What I think what's been really fun to see with his TCC programs is how much more of a role Jason plays in the music selection and choreography now. I think what was good about the first DW year even if the S&G FS wasn't mindblowing or supremely successful that Jason and DW got to know each other better and I think it yielded a better collaboration when working on the SL program.

 

[el henry]

I think there may be two different definitions of maturity at work, because I think both @Noskates and @MrsP are right.

In my experience, "maturity" is sometimes used as shorthand for "seriousness". Jason gets knocked for being immature because he waves and smiles, he hugs in the KnC, because he shows his genuinely happy and caring personality.

I say, as a miserable old cuss, I don't agree with that definition of maturity. Sitting stone faced in the KnC is not "maturity". Hiding your emotions is not "maturity". Cutting down on waving and smiling is not "maturity". Trust me, plenty of immature folks can hide emotions, sit stone faced and cut back on the waving and smiling Jason hasn't changed his personality, nor should he. Not a thing to do with maturity.

But there is maturity as I think Jason is defining it; wanting to have certain amount of life experience, wanting to feel confident that he could express what he wanted to express for a topic as sensitive and as meaningful to him as Schindler's List.

Now watching SL over and over (which is kind of a shame because this year's SP is also on fire, and getting lost), I'm not the first to remark how much faster and more powerful his actual skating is. And it was hardly chump change before. That also adds, I believe, to the power of SL.

 

[Xena45]

love Jason's skating. I'll be at world's in March and I'm just thrilled that I will get to see him. I don't care about the quads; he's a stunning skater, and I've really appreciated the more mature style of the last 2 years.

I have comments about his music selections though. As much as I appreciate the Schindler's List program, IMHO, it only really sings in the second half when the music becomes so beautifully poignant. The first half of the music is just okay movie music, but it can't hold a candle to the second half, which is stunning. The Simon and Garfunkel program was worse; I felt like I had to endure the first half of the music (which was actually slightly off-putting, imo) to get to the good second half. And the Hamilton music. I LOVE Hamilton, but why he chose that particular song... I didn't think it connected with the audience. It's such a shame because when the skating and the music and the audience connect with Jason, it's sublime. He's sublime.

I love his SP this year, both the music and his costume. He looks so modern and sleek and athletic. But his LP costume.... I've gotten used to it, but I don't find it particularly good.

I'm just skating fan, with no history in the sport myself. As Tracy said, Jason is special. I cannot wait to see him in Montreal next month.

 

[TontoK]

love Jason's skating. I'll be at world's in March and I'm just thrilled that I will get to see him. I don't care about the quads; he's a stunning skater, and I've really appreciated the more mature style of the last 2 years.

I have comments about his music selections though. As much as I appreciate the Schindler's List program, IMHO, it only really sings in the second half when the music becomes so beautifully poignant. The first half of the music is just okay movie music, but it can't hold a candle to the second half, which is stunning. The Simon and Garfunkel program was worse; I felt like I had to endure the first half of the music (which was actually slightly off-putting, imo) to get to the good second half. And the Hamilton music. I LOVE Hamilton, but why he chose that particular song... I didn't think it connected with the audience. It's such a shame because when the skating and the music and the audience connect with Jason, it's sublime. He's sublime.

I love his SP this year, both the music and his costume. He looks so modern and sleek and athletic. But his LP costume.... I've gotten used to it, but I don't find it particularly good.

I'm just skating fan, with no history in the sport myself. As Tracy said, Jason is special. I cannot wait to see him in Montreal next month.

I'm in the minority, I suppose, but I actually found a lot to like in the S&G program. I might have picked different selections; S&G have a vast library. But I had the sense that his true artistic voice was beginning to come out.

In retrospect... and isn't everything clearer in hindsight... I think S&G was a stepping stone to this year's programs.

 

[Xena45]

I'm in the minority, I suppose, but I actually found a lot to like in the S&G program. I might have picked different selections; S&G have a vast library. But I had the sense that his true artistic voice was beginning to come out.

In retrospect... and isn't everything clearer in hindsight... I think S&G was a stepping stone to this year's programs.

I agree with you, about it being a stepping stone. I like S&G too! I just wish there would be four whole minutes of good music instead of a minute or two of "intro" music before the good stuff in the second half. It's the same this year with Schindler's List.

As a spectator, I find music selection to be so very important, for every level of skater. It seems like it should be easy to pick good music, but clearly it's not!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I agree with you, about it being a stepping stone. I like S&G too! I just wish there would be four whole minutes of good music instead of a minute or two of "intro" music before the good stuff in the second half. It's the same this year with Schindler's List.

As a spectator, I find music selection to be so very important, for every level of skater. It seems like it should be easy to pick good music, but clearly it's not!

Blame David Wilson: He choreographed both the programs you don't like the music designs for.