How does funding work for different skaters/countries?

[Noxchild]

I am not American and generally I agree with the they-should-pay-their-own-way model, especially if fitness for the general population is not being funded by various governments... but then I also think about the enormous and irresponsible subsidies and tax breaks that stadiums for sports like professional football and so on get and I'm like... man, imagine if these teams owned by billionaires DIDN'T get $$$ in taxpayer money for once when their owners can clearly pay for their own stuff, and like... how much better American skaters might have it if USFD had $5-10 more million a year and used it responsibly of course, other sports organizations would want government funding too, but it's not the US already DOESN'T spend huge amounts of taxpayer money on sports... sigh.

ps does anyone know why British fs lost its funding?

 

[pesto]

I'm British, so it's the lottery funding etc that @DSQ described. As doing the lottery is optional, the tax question doesn't come up.

Elite sports funding is almost entirely medals-based, which is why our skaters get £0 now. This strategy has obviously reaped benefits in terms of our improved medals tally at summer Olys, though I have reservations about it in some ways.

We have no reliable winter snow here, so it's not surprising we are poor at winter sports. The rink sports of skating, hockey and curling are really the only sports where widespread participation could become remotely feasible. They are, however, still minority sports.

Pretty sure Karly Robertson, who trains at Dundee, works in the local Tesco supermarket to make a crust. Several of our top women train in Dundee. They also did ice shows over Christmas, including one at Gleneagles, and I would hope they got paid for that.

Maybe Lilah and Lewis are beginning to get to the level where they could attract more private or commercial sponsors. Training in Montreal has obviously done wonders for them, so I hope they can continue.

 

[fzztsimmons]

ps does anyone know why British fs lost its funding?

Essentially, because there obviously isn't an unlimited pot of money to fund sports, particularly winter sports in a country that doesn't really have the environments or facilities to support them, everything is based on success and medals.
Unfortunately, in Pyeongchang, british figure skating did rather poorly, and our best chances (in ice dance), Penny Coomes & Nicholas Buckland didn't even make it in to the top 10 (I think they were 11th, soooo close).
So yes, unfortunately UK sport just don't see figure skating as worth the investment.
Hopefully the success so far of Lilah & Lewis may be helpful if they can keep it up!

 

[Spinning]

Essentially, because there obviously isn't an unlimited pot of money to fund sports, particularly winter sports in a country that doesn't really have the environments or facilities to support them, everything is based on success and medals.

The rising of skaters from small tropical countries is what we couldn't afford to use the excuses. I complain the lack of ice rinks in the UK from time to time but imagine fewer rink malls of some countries.

It is definitely a fundamental mentality in a way. Most parents couldn't afford figure skating and many other winter sports long term. Well....It is much much cheaper to play football with much much more rewards in a financial aspect even in lady football. Some coaching school programmes are now open to figure skating but unless the attitude towards the vocational education has changed (the insults like BTEC coaches for example), I don't see a quick turnaround for the sport.

As for funding we might have to wait for #toriesout before changes (just kidding here because i don't believe in JC to make a difference either).

Look on the bright side, Gemma Collins' DOI has blow-up the talk of ice skating in the last week. Many parents even took their kids to the rinks after that episode.

 

[RobinA]

To me it's a values issue, not particularly a political one. Is it important to the country to field competitive athletes at world competition? Then they will probably subsidize it. If not, they won't. The US has decided that this isn't important to them, so we don't fund much. Far more public money goes to sports arenas for football and other team sports because someone has apparently decided that that is something that has value in this country. A country funds what is important and doesn't fund what is not important to the people who make these decisions. And reap the consequences either way.

 

[pesto]

Most parents couldn't afford figure skating and many other winter sports long term.

Yeah, for us, skating was usually something like a birthday treat, no chance of doing it regularly. And even if you include sports that cost a bit more than football, there are sports centres with swimming pools and other facilities in most towns, while rinks are far thinner on the ground.

More recently, 3 of my nephews did junior ice hockey, but their nearest rink was 25 miles away, and with training and all the match fixtures, my stay-at-home BiL was doing 30K miles a year (not all hockey, but a majority was). That's not possible for everyone. Also, the youngest was more drawn to figure skating than hockey, really, but they struggled to find regular coaching for him.

Look on the bright side, Gemma Collins' DOI has blow-up the talk of ice skating in the last week. Many parents even took their kids to the rinks after that episode.

Heh. Well, Lewis has said that he was originally inspired to take up ice skating by DOI, so there might even be something in that. The more exposure a sport has, the better for it, even if it is as "light entertainment", rather than elite sport.

 

[moonvine]

I was surprised to read that USFSA paid for Gracie’s mental health inpatient treatment. Then again you think, who supports that USFSA funding? Parents of kids (members) and perhaps some donors? USFSA did receive government money for implementing the SafeSport program.

If there were an opportunity to earmark our donation to different funds, I would definitely divert some of my donation to that fund.

 

[Hevari]

If there were an opportunity to earmark our donation to different funds, I would definitely divert some of my donation to that fund.

Seems that what you need could be found on the USFS web-site: https://usfigureskating.org/story?id=83988

 

[moonvine]

It is definitely a fundamental mentality in a way. Most parents couldn't afford figure skating and many other winter sports long term. Well....It is much much cheaper to play football with much much more rewards in a financial aspect even in lady football. Some coaching school programmes are now open to figure skating but unless the attitude towards the vocational education has changed (the insults like BTEC coaches for example), I don't see a quick turnaround for the sport.

Figure skating is for sure one of the most expensive sports out there. Track, swimming, things like that require much less specialized facilities and equipment. All you need to swim is a bathing suit and a pool, and eventually a private coach, but you can start out with a pool and a bathing suit. I am a swimmer and have a coach but don't work with her directly much. I get to do Master's swim at the Y for free, which is coached, and I have a private coach I work with once a week who is like $30 per 45 minutes. She also sends me workouts via text message. Of course I swim at Senior Olympic (old fart) level and it is probably somewhat more expensive to travel to competitions, etc, but you don't need costumes, choreographers, multiple coaches, private pool time, etc. The only other one I can think of that's probably close to as expensive is equestrian, but with equestrian, swimming, track, wrestling, tons of Olympic sports you can get a college scholarship and FREE coaching. By the time you get done with school if not before you should have a pretty good idea if you are really good enough to make the Olympics (most collegiate athletes do not continue after college).

 

[moonvine]

Seems that what you need could be found on the USFS web-site: https://usfigureskating.org/story?id=83988

Thank you. I did not see a fund to work with athletes with eating disorders but I can write Brent and he'll tell me I am sure.

 

[moonvine]

To me it's a values issue, not particularly a political one. Is it important to the country to field competitive athletes at world competition? Then they will probably subsidize it. If not, they won't. The US has decided that this isn't important to them, so we don't fund much. Far more public money goes to sports arenas for football and other team sports because someone has apparently decided that that is something that has value in this country. A country funds what is important and doesn't fund what is not important to the people who make these decisions. And reap the consequences either way.

It was pretty important during the Cold War when whether the USA or Russia won more gold medals was seen as proof of superiority by either country. I hope we can agree that athletes who win medals should not have to pay taxes on those medals? There is an USA athlete who has won a medal at every Olympics since 1976!!! but she has no sponsors because she's winning shooting medals and that is a big political hot potato. I hope we can all agree they at least should not have to pay taxes to the IRS on their medals? Does anyone know if that is just Olympic medals but GP and World medals as well?

 

[DSQ]

^
Do you mean taxes on their winnings? AFAIK, in the UK at least, you don’t get taxed on competition winnings.

Also if being an athlete is your job you can sometimes write off some of the taxes you paid for equipment and the like. For example at the end of the tax year (which was yesterday I think...) Naomi Osaka will report the amount she paid out for tennis rackets (etc) and can claim back all of the VAT she paid.

But I think technically competitive skaters are non professional so can’t do that.

 

[moonvine]

^
Do you mean taxes on their winnings? AFAIK, in the UK at least, you don’t get taxed on competition winnings.

Also if being an athlete is your job you can sometimes write off some of the taxes you paid for equipment and the like. For example at the end of the tax year (which was yesterday I think...) Naomi Osaka will report the amount she paid out for tennis rackets (etc) and can claim back all of the VAT she paid.

But I think technically competitive skaters are non professional so can’t do that.

No, I mean US OM winners pay taxes on their medal. They also pay taxes on the prize money, but the medal I think is way over the top. https://money.cnn.com/2016/08/12/news/olympians-gold-medals-taxes-us/

 

[Edwin]

In Western Europe (EU zone) one cannot escape the tax collector, LOL.

Price money and appearance fees are subjected to income tax at the high tariff for non-regular income. Non EU residents can try to get a tax refund so as to have the price money handed over in gross, but they need to fill out paperwork.

 

[Harriet]

Interesting piece of information I just ran across via Twitter: the overall budget of the FFSG, which has to cover 10 ice-based winter sports including figure skating, ice dance and synchro, is 6 million Euros. In comparison, the overall budget of RusFed solely for figure skating, ice dance and synchro is apparently the equivalent of 18 million Euros.

It's pretty impressive what the French skaters have been able to accomplish over the past few years given that disparity!

 

[Sabrina]

I guess successful skaters manage to find sponsors, that's why they try to put on the jackets with different brands. I noticed even Russian skaters do that and I think it is for Rostelekom, or how it is spelled.
What made me sad was when I watched Julia Sauter representing Romania, the coach said something like they need some help as they have to pay for the trip to Japan themselves. So what happens with lower ranked skaters? Or skaters from small federations.
I was struck like thunder when I heard that Sweden does not sent Majorov to the Olympics unless he gets a huge score, attainable by the best in the worlds.

 

[vorravorra]

It's not a silly speculation, when you don't know just how much those countries may offer to switch.

I don't know about China, but I know that Russia regards their sport achievements as a very important tool for state propaganda (just like USSR). As a result, becoming an elite athlete in Russia comes with tremendous benefits from the state - including not just immediate benefits (such as free training and gifts of money, expensive cars, and real estate), but a guaranteed cushy future after retirement - for example, membership in State Duma (Parliament), insider business opportunities, etc.

That being said, in Alyssa's case, her value to Chinese state is questionable, given full details of her story (daughter of a gay political refugee with surrogate children might not make a perfect poster girl for state propaganda).

You get perks like cars and gifts of money not just for being an elite athlete but for winning Olympic medals. And real estate did not come from the state itself but from private sponsors (who may have be encouraged by the state to contribute). And it was mainly after Sochi, after last Olympics I am not aware of anyone but Alina who got an apartment as a gift back in her home city, but then she was also the only skater with a gold medal. Regular members of Team Russia are not by any means swimming in money, especially now as the funding was cut back considerably after Sochi. They have their training costs paid for and they get a salary but it's by no means huge. It's not a question of gifts, being on Team Russia is a job and the state through the Ministry of Sports and the figure skating Federation is your employer. You in return have to pay a certain percentage of your earnings from figure-skating related activities back to the Federation (people keep forgetting it's a two-way relationship and having high-earning skaters on the Team is profitable for the Federation). Skaters who train at rich clubs like CSKA get extra money from the club.

ETA: they pay your training costs in Russia and the money does not go to you directly but to the club.

 

[vorravorra]

Also in case anyone is wondering why the Russian Fed is not eager to fund skaters training abroad. Say a skating club in Russia gets paid for ice time of a Team Russia member, but that skater does not train on the ice alone and money can be used to fund the ice time of a group of Russian skaters. So the funding for a top skater does not get spend on just that skater. If they pay for Medvedeva's ice time it's just Medvedeva's ice time.

 

[NymphyNymphy]

Doesn't RusFed pay for Medvedeva to train in Canada? Doesn't North Korea pay for North Koreans to train in Canada?

North Koreans training in Canada? I can't imagine how it must feel to go outside of North Korea and discover your country is in the 1960s. Must have been heartbreaking when they had to leave Canada.

 

[Shani]

There are no real sponsorships in USA for training costs unless you are top 5 at Nationals or junior nationals. It comes from endorsements from skating sponsors