I, Tonya

[stolbovadivas]

Tonya was an inconsistent disaster for an entire year starting at 1992 Nationals. Bombed Olys and Worlds that year. Thinking she'd get her butt in gear over the off season, she showed up at her international event, Skate Canada heavy and out of shape. Then she was given one or two plum Pro-Ams where she earned tens of thousands and still was heavy and out of shape. So by the time Tonya got to 93 Nationals, it was just the same old same old skater. She didn't do more than the others who were put on the 93 World team. I think Kwiatkowski was the only one to land a 3lutz plus one other triple (toe?). Ervin had the cleanest skate with three triples plus a fall out on a 3loop. I figured USFSA decided that it would be better to send two other skaters who actually have a work ethic and TRIED than lazy Tonya who would most likely show up at Worlds still heavy and out of shape. Time to look to the future, and Tonya wasn't it. As far as blaming her poor work ethic on a lifetime of abuse, lack of education, etc give me a break. I know several people who had even worse upbringings than Tonya, who didn't have a world class talent, but they turned out just fine. They had no money and had no choice but to join the military. Maybe Tonya should have thought of doing that.

Sending Tonia to worlds at that point was a total waste, and an ill advised joke of a decision. In future years she atleast developed into a solid journeywomen type skater who occasionaly turned out very respectable outings (96 Nationals, 96 worlds, 98 worlds). In 93 she was nowhere. Harding and even Bobek should have been given the benefit of doubt over her easily with similar performances. Nobody was surprised at Tonia going out in qualifying at worlds, it was utterly predictable. Harding by contrast skating her worst probably still makes top 10/top 12 on reputation alone, and in good form is atleast competitive for top 5 in that field, despite this being far from her best year of skating.

Imagine another big name landing 2 triples in the long and not being sent over Tonia K of all people.

 

[LiamForeman]

Oh, I agree with everything you wrote. But Tonya was no longer a 'big name' anymore, competitively speaking, and she showed in a span of 12 months that her career was doomed due to her laziness and poor work ethic. If they sent Tonya to Worlds and Tonya still showed up out of shape and bombed, they'd probably be kicking themselves for not at least giving another skater a chance. And yes, Tonia was most likely going to bomb which she did, so I always wondered why not send Bobek??? She kind of had a break out Nationals in 93 and she was just 15 and looked to be a star on the ascent. But US ladies in 93 were horrid across the board. Nancy was the 'anointed one' so they weren't going to displace her from the team, but to have Nancy AND Tonya after lackluster Oly/World/fall GPs from the both of them, someone had to lead the team. It wasn't that Tonya was unfairly marked, she just didn't even come close to doing her job.

 

[dorispulaski]

I think the judges took a chunk out of Tonya's scores there in punishment for having the clasp break on the neck closure of her costume. At least they would have defended it that way.

Tonya could have spun better than that. Check out her 1992 programs. I wonder why she didn't. They were usually hugely better than Nancy's and here only marginally so. Note even Dick and Peggy are not cheering for Nancy's spins here.

 

[stolbovadivas]

I think the judges took a chunk out of Tonya's scores there in punishment for having the clasp break on the neck closure of her costume. At least they would have defended it that way.

Tonya could have spun better than that. Check out her 1992 programs. I wonder why she didn't. They were usually hugely better than Nancy's and here only marginally so. Note even Dick and Peggy are not cheering for Nancy's spins here.

Yes all valid points, but still at the very least the short program scores should have been much closer than they were. And being placed behind a journeywomen like Tonia who only lands the same number of triples in the long. Generally the judges werent doing Harding any favors, and they frankly never did.

 

[LiamForeman]

Well, by immediately accusing me of clearly being a Christine Brennan kool aid drinker, you clearly don't want to have any kind of rational discussion. FYI: I cannot stand Ms.Brennan. She comes across as a pompous "I know more than you" type, so no, I do not drink her kool aid. Hardly. And by the content of your post, I take it you weren't following skating back then? I was, even more seriously than I do now. So I can say I remember that time period, which it seems you rely on others' thoughts from back then.

But okay, the SP. Wait, let me say I was a huge fan of Tonya's and couldn't stand Nancy. So I'm not a Tonya hater. But the one/only thing you could count on Nancy for was a clean SP. And with her textbook beautiful 3lutz and her 2axel that was strong too, with her packaging and the fact that she took second at the Olys with that same program (it was something horrible that Mark Militano probably recorded in his basement on a Casio keyboard, just awful....) probably meant that if she was clean, now being the US anointed darling, she was going to win the SP. And maybe you weren't around then, but this was yet another Tonya equipment malfunction episode (the strap of her dress got unhooked right when she started and she still skated into her lutz and popped it then proceeded to go over to the referee. Gee, sounds like a pattern with her...) and the referee to this day still thinks she undid it after she popped, but no, video shows it came off almost immediately, so I'm sure if the referee was thinking this, you'd be naïve to think it also didn't cross the judges' minds too... Anyway, that program. It started off with Never from the Footloose sdtk, randomly went into KennyG and then ended with a stompy hard edged other random piece. A disaster of a program. If she just stuck to Moonriver, she probably would have won the SP because it was cohesive and well, artistic. But Nancy winning the SP over Tonya was not a robbery, especially considering Nancy was now the 'favorite'.

But, let's talk Bobek. She had by then gained a reputation for being a wild child, always trying to sneak out of her hotel room in the middle of the night. At one point her coach had to camp out by the door so Nicole wouldn't go crazy after curfew. And yes, she did empty out a mini-bar and her coach paid the bill, so she wasn't arrested then. That would be a year and a half later. But you make it seem like the USFSA not sending her to Worlds might have been because of her private life choices which you think is wrong. When Bobek did all those antics away at competition, she was REPRESENTING the USFSA. It wasn't a private choice of Bobek's. Maybe USFSA didn't want to deal with another scandal from her at Worlds? And who could blame them, really.

 

[Seren]

Tonya was an inconsistent disaster for an entire year starting at 1992 Nationals. Bombed Olys and Worlds that year. Thinking she'd get her butt in gear over the off season, she showed up at her international event, Skate Canada heavy and out of shape. Then she was given one or two plum Pro-Ams where she earned tens of thousands and still was heavy and out of shape. So by the time Tonya got to 93 Nationals, it was just the same old same old skater. She didn't do more than the others who were put on the 93 World team. I think Kwiatkowski was the only one to land a 3lutz plus one other triple (toe?). Ervin had the cleanest skate with three triples plus a fall out on a 3loop. I figured USFSA decided that it would be better to send two other skaters who actually have a work ethic and TRIED than lazy Tonya who would most likely show up at Worlds still heavy and out of shape. Time to look to the future, and Tonya wasn't it. As far as blaming her poor work ethic on a lifetime of abuse, lack of education, etc give me a break. I know several people who had even worse upbringings than Tonya, who didn't have a world class talent, but they turned out just fine. They had no money and had no choice but to join the military. Maybe Tonya should have thought of doing that.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Everyone handles abuse differently. It doesn't make someone a better or worse person because they can or can't deal with it. I was able to deal with my depression for many years (not well, but I did it) and get through grad school but that doesn't make me better than someone who couldn't. We are all different and you have no idea how something affects someone else. To say she should have just been able to deal with it is wrong and belittles people who have gone through terrible things. You can knock Tonya all you want for being out of shape, not training, bad decisions, ect. but don't downplay emotional abuse.

 

[Metis]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Everyone handles abuse differently. It doesn't make someone a better or worse person because they can or can't deal with it. I was able to deal with my depression for many years (not well, but I did it) and get through grad school but that doesn't make me better than someone who couldn't. We are all different and you have no idea how something affects someone else. To say she should have just been able to deal with it is wrong and belittles people who have gone through terrible things. You can knock Tonya all you want for being out of shape, not training, bad decisions, ect. but don't downplay emotional abuse.

Tonya was physically abused, too, neglected, and sexually abused as well. The neglect and physical abuse in her childhood is well-documented. One friend witnessed an incident in which Tonya’s mother beat her with a hairbrush, then told Tonya’s coach she was going to call CPS. Her coach told the friend not to, as if CPS got involved, that would be the end of Tonya’s skating.

Journalists, coaches, friends, everyone — they knew skating was Tonya’s best hope of getting away from a horrible environment.

I recall she married Jeff G. very young (19 or 20 or so) in order to escape her mother, who had abruptly separated from Tonya’s father and who was becoming ... increasingly a menace. He hung around the rink and told her she was pretty. She’d never dated before. His coworkers were afraid he was using her as a meal ticket and of the abuse she was inevitably going to experience from him. I remember her saying that she thought it was normal, because her mother loved her but her mother hit her, so when Jeff said hit her and said he loved her... wasn’t that what people did?

I don’t know if the user you were responding to will be open to changing their mind, but... yeah. You don’t have to like Tonya, you can find her guilty in terms of Kerrigan, you can think whatever you’d like in terms of her skating talent, but ... she was abused in every relationship she ever had, including skating. The USFSA knew she had escaped domestic violence and told her to get back together with her former husband!

Seren: massive congrats on finishing, from one ex-academe brat to a real academe one, and all the hugs.

 

[Moxiejan]

Getting back to the "I, Tonya" film: There is no doubt that Tonya was abused; the film depicts many of the incidents mentioned in this thread. Most of those already were well known in stories about her both before & after "the incident."

What is false/overdone is the film's portrayal of Tonya also being consistently undermarked/underappreciated by judges and/or the USFSA. If that were the case, she would not have been assigned to Skate America at age 15, and certainly would not had won silver there ahead of better-known names! Her competition results are a matter of public record & include a U.S. championship, silver medal at Worlds, 4th at 1992 Olympics & high placements in top senior events (later to become the Grand Prix). Yes, TPTB likely wanted better packaging for her. But they didn't cheat her of opportunities in the way the film depicted.

 

[stolbovadivas]

Tonya was certainly perennialy underscored and dealing with bias against her by judges and the USFSA, regardless if certain individuals who themselves have a visible and huge bias against Tonya of course wont acknowledge this. The film was accurate to reality, and certainly more accurate than the false reality both the media potrayed, and some anti Tonya posters in this thread are attempting to potray. Bravo I, Tonya, an excellent and fully accurate movie.

 

[Moxiejan]

Here is an article that details the many inaccuracies in the movie. Note especially that the Tonya-in-tears courtroom scene was made up; the judge never sentenced her (she negotiated a plea deal) & especially not to a lifetime skating ban (months later, the USFSA banned her from sanctioned events; she was free to skate in unsanctioned events, including shows). Also noted in the article is that the film doesn't mention that "poor Tonya" received financial support from millionaire George Steinbrenner, who certainly could have helped her find better training conditions away from abusive mother/husband.

http://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2018/01/i_nauseated_the_oregonians_for.html

 

[mrrice]

There is a great parody of I Tonya.....It's called I Tina. It's about Curling....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx_b2iBFbhI

 

[cruzceleste]

There is a parody of I Tonya.....It's called I Tina. It's about Curling....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx_b2iBFbhI

OMG

 

[skylark]

Here is an article that details the many inaccuracies in the movie. Note especially that the Tonya-in-tears courtroom scene was made up; the judge never sentenced her (she negotiated a plea deal) & especially not to a lifetime skating ban (months later, the USFSA banned her from sanctioned events; she was free to skate in unsanctioned events, including shows). Also noted in the article is that the film doesn't mention that "poor Tonya" received financial support from millionaire George Steinbrenner, who certainly could have helped her find better training conditions away from abusive mother/husband.

http://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2018/01/i_nauseated_the_oregonians_for.html

thanks for posting this link. It's an important article, written by a reporter from Portland, who covered the key events.

Harding has changed her story over and over in the past 24 years, but it’s always that she is a victim and everyone else is horrible. She is habitually “truth-challenged” — this fantasy film is Harding’s dream come true. http://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2018/01/i_nauseated_the_oregonians_for.html​

 

[mrrice]

You can say what you want but, I saw Tonya perform live and she was spectacular. I think it would be interesting to hear someone else tell you my life story. I'm sure it would be drastically different than what I'd say. I'm sure my Sisters would tell our family story very differently than I would. They never toured, they never skated, and after high school, we basically lived completely different lives.

If you interviewed my high school classmates....I can't imagine what they'd say. I was dorky, anti-social, and never hung out with any of them. Let Tonya tell her story as she remembers it and take it or leave it. Like she says in the movie "Everyone Has Their Own Truth"

 

[Inessence]

That Oregonian reporter didn’t exactly have a stellar reputation during her stint with the newspaper. She even made Brennan seem Pulitzer worthy.

 

[moonvine]

That Oregonian reporter didn’t exactly have a stellar reputation during her stint with the newspaper. She even made Brennan seem Pulitzer worthy.

She turned me off with her whining about "having" to go see the movie and pay for it. Then the plug of the rerelease of her book with the "real" story. Bleh. It's a movie. Movies take artistic license, when based on a real life story or when based on a book. All of them. Make sure you get that plug for your book in, though.

 

[NanaPat]

She turned me off with her whining about "having" to go see the movie and pay for it. Then the plug of the rerelease of her book with the "real" story. Bleh. It's a movie. Movies take artistic license, when based on a real life story or when based on a book. All of them. Make sure you get that plug for your book in, though.

The book must be great. After all, it was written in four days!

 

[Moxiejan]

It's a movie. Movies take artistic license, when based on a real life story or when based on a book.

Yes, which is why I posted a link to that story, in response to a poster in this thread who insisted that the movie was "fully accurate."

 

[Weathergal]

The length she holds that ina bauer for and continually performs while doing so is glorious. She turned this into a competitive SP for 1992 Worlds, it was the best SP she ever had but only competed it that one time.

I agree! As someone whose pet peeve is skaters not holding out moves long enough, this was really fun to see. I didn't remember this program of hers, and I was pleasantly surprised overall.

 

[shan22044]

This movie is a total satire.
It's like the Totally True Adventures of the Texas Cheerleader Murdering Mom.

Tonya is presented as the most unreliable narrator ever. Even though the skating in the movie was amazing and you almost felt sorry because of the abuse, Tonya was a fool to have gone along with this.