IOC's banning of Russia from 2018 Olympics

[Sjs5572]

Their country didnt put them into the mess. I´m pretty sure that russian state did not involve lets say Medvedeva, who was 14 in 2014, and Zagitova, who was even younger, in any doping schemes.

If they can really prove the guilt of the russian state, punish the state, not individual athletes in a sport that had nothing to do with the *possible* doping scheme

Geez, that's what they are doing. Clean athletes, including, Medvedeva, will compete if Putin gives a "real" approval to compete. The IOC made a significant concession by allowing athletes to be identified as "Olympic Athletes from Russia." I really think that Bach has bent over backwards to avoid a Russian boycott, but Putin will do what's politically expedient.

 

[Sugarpova]

Liza shares my opinion:thumbsup:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcWfe88H6BR/?taken-by=liza_tuktik

:agree:

 

[SimplyLex]

Liza shares my opinion:thumbsup:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcWfe88H6BR/?taken-by=liza_tuktik

:agree:

From as much as Google translator told me, this is scary.

 

[Eclair]

I’ve just read the 30 page report put out by the IOC. Ugh...it’s a brutal read and very little new information is actually verified or brought to light and a lot of the evidence is surprisingly inconclusive including the IOC’s admission that there is no definitive proof that the highest level of state officials were involved.

No, that report says there is no proof, that the highest state official knew about it, which means they found no proof that Putin personally was involved.

It's not about 'higher state officials. it's about the highest state official

 

[geiger]

However, I think the people to blame here are those that initialised the state-controlled doping system. I think no-one doubts that there is one!

Just for the record, we don't "doubt". We just don't believe a single word WADA or Rodchenkov are saying. Ability to apply political pressure on IOC and Bach personally does not amount to being right about anything. That Russian government came out as incompetent and unable to push back, is another issue.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

No, that report says there is no proof, that the highest state official knew about it, which means they found no proof that Putin personally was involved.

It's not about 'higher state officials. it's about the highest state official

No...that’s not what it said. Try reading it again

but no indication, independent or impartial evidence appeared to corroborate any involvement or knowledge at a higher level of the State.

Don’t ignore this either:

Nevertheless, the independent and impartial evidence do not allow the IOC DC to establish with certitude either who initiated or who headed this scheme.

 

[geiger]

I really think that Bach has bent over backwards to avoid a Russian boycott, but Putin will do what's politically expedient.

What would really be interesting if he passed the decision to Duma and let the MPs decide the matter freely. My guess is that the response in that case would be much harsher, boycott definitely included.

 

[Eclair]

No...that’s not what it said. Try reading it again



Don’t ignore this either:

I'm sorry, I thought you were quoting another part, but instead you were quoting this part (it would have been clearer if you included the whole sentence):

On many occasions, reference was made on the involvement at the Minister of Sport’s level, but no indication, independent or impartial evidence appeared to corroborate any involvement or knowledge at a higher level of the State.

and this:

The detailed analysis of the e-mail exchanges attached to the IP Reports, (see above point 2.3) allows to confirm the involvement of a number of individuals within the Ministry of Sport and its subordinated entities, such as CSP, VNIIFK, RUSADA, Moscow and Sochi Laboratories. All the independent and impartial evidence as well as the results of the forensic and biological analysis confirm this conclusion.
14Publication “Doping in der DDR”, by Spitzer/Franke and “Sicherungsvorgang Sport” by Spitzer; discussion with Mr Roland Jahn, German journalist and a former Eastern Germany dissident who was appointed as Federal Commissioner for the Stasi Records in March 2011.
IOC Disciplinary Commission’s Report
Page 25/30
Nevertheless, the independent and impartial evidence do not allow the IOC DC to establish with certitude either who initiated or who headed this scheme.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm sorry, I thought you were quoting another part, but instead you were quoting this part (it would have been clearer if you included the whole sentence):


and this:

Have you read the report? It’s kind of fascinating but surprisingly lacking considering the final decision. I wonder if Russia can appeal? Seems like IOC is kind of bluffing and has even started downplaying some of Rodchenkovs latest statements as unverifiable.

 

[madison]

From as much as Google translator told me, this is scary.

What is she saying?

 

[pearly]

Have you read the report? It’s kind of fascinating but surprisingly lacking considering the final decision. I wonder if Russia can appeal? Seems like IOC is kind of bluffing and has even started downplaying some of Rodchenkovs latest statements as unverifiable.

Yes, there's very little info, but there's this: "The President of Russia’s Olympic Committee, Alexander Zhukov, said on Tuesday that Russian athletes will appeal the International Olympic Committee (IOC) ban from the 2018 Pyeongchang Winter Olympics at the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), R-Sport news agency reported."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...sia-will-appeal-ioc-ban-r-sport-idUSKBN1DZ2VM

As for Tukt, that's disturbing and I hope athletes who may actually be selected to compete don't feel the same way.

 

[Eclair]

Have you read the report? It’s kind of fascinating but surprisingly lacking considering the final decision. I wonder if Russia can appeal? Seems like IOC is kind of bluffing and has even started downplaying some of Rodchenkovs latest statements as unverifiable.

and it been said multiple times that Rodchnkov isn't their only witness, they have multiple other sources including digital information and emails and all have backed up the things Rodchenkov said ..

 

[madison]

Yes, there's very little info, but there's this: "The President of Russia’s Olympic Committee, Alexander Zhukov, said on Tuesday that Russian athletes will appeal the International Olympic Committee (IOC) ban from the 2018 Pyeongchang Winter Olympics at the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), R-Sport news agency reported."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...sia-will-appeal-ioc-ban-r-sport-idUSKBN1DZ2VM

As for Tukt, that's disturbing and I hope athletes who may actually be selected to compete don't feel the same way.

To be honest, I don't think any Russian athlete will participate, unfortunately. The public opinion is against, the politicians the same, the time is really limited and if they want to attack the decision is even worse from a timing point of view, plus Russia has to pay a big sum of money. They won't agree on that. The dispute will be prolonged next year as well, without a clear result. They will sacrifice this cohort of clean athletes but it doesn't matter for them anyway.

 

[coldblueeyes]

As for Tukt, that's disturbing and I hope athletes who may actually be selected to compete don't feel the same way.

I don't think it's actually that disturbing, she's inflamed in her opinion, but man, just a year ago there was the meldonium ban, which Liza wasn't caught because she wasn't even in the game, but she used it, and look at what happened to Bobrova for example. Banned from competing in a WC that they had chances of getting onto the podium only to be cleared some weeks later because there was just no study in it for them to even cause such a ruckus. And now this, once again, what she's talking is not even about abiding by the rules or not, but this feeling that they're changing things on the fly, and the ones that suffer the consequences are the russian athletes - which are mostly clean. All the evidence until now pointed to a scheme that involved a number of people, but hardly the entire nation, as it seems to be the impression some people want to give in their statements.

However, the ban is nation-wide.

 

[pearly]

To be honest, I don't think any Russian athlete will participate, unfortunately. The public opinion is against, the politicians the same, the time is really limited and if they want to attack the decision is even worse from a timing point of view, plus Russia has to pay a big sum of money. They won't agree on that. The dispute will be prolonged next year as well, without a clear result. They will sacrifice this cohort of clean athletes but it doesn't matter for them anyway.

I have very little nationalistic sentiment and don't think they brought us much good as a civilization regardless of whether it (sentiment and patriotism) is Russian, American, Canadian, Chinese etc . If I had Evgenia's track record, I would compete without a second thought.

 

[madison]

I don't think it's actually that disturbing, she's inflamed in her opinion, but man, just a year ago there was the meldonium ban, which Liza wasn't caught because she wasn't even in the game, but she used it, and look at what happened to Bobrova for example. Banned from competing in a WC that they had chances of getting onto the podium only to be cleared some weeks later because there was just no study in it for them to even cause such a ruckus. And now this, once again, what she's talking is not even about abiding by the rules or not, but this feeling that they're changing things on the fly, and the ones that suffer the consequences are the russian athletes - which are mostly clean. All the evidence until now pointed to a scheme that involved a number of people, but hardly the entire nation, as it seems to be the impression some people want to give in their statements.

However, the ban is nation-wide.

Bobrova's case was really weird. Because of that, B/S lost the chance to compete at Worlds and even medal and nobody from WADA's part paid for messing up. I mean you cannot play like this with people's life without having any responsability.

 

[Sjs5572]

Liza shares my opinion:thumbsup:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcWfe88H6BR/?taken-by=liza_tuktik

:agree:

Sounds like a lot of ranting and raving.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Bobrova's case was really weird. Because of that, B/S lost the chance to compete at Worlds and even medal and nobody from WADA's part didn't pay for messing up. I mean you cannot play like this with people's life without having any responsability.

The unfortunate thing was that they didn't really do it to wrong her purposefully, but the timing was completely out of whack. And in the end there was nothing she could do about it.

 

[madison]

I have very little nationalistic sentiment and don't think they brought us much good as a civilization regardless of whether it (sentiment and patriotism) is Russian, American, Canadian, Chinese etc . If I had Evgenia's track record, I would compete without a second thought.

:thumbsup: Me too... but unfortunately this is not only about us. I suspect that the situation is even more complicated than we can see from outside.

 

[Shayuki]

To be honest, I don't think any Russian athlete will participate, unfortunately. The public opinion is against, the politicians the same, the time is really limited and if they want to attack the decision is even worse from a timing point of view, plus Russia has to pay a big sum of money. They won't agree on that. The dispute will be prolonged next year as well, without a clear result. They will sacrifice this cohort of clean athletes but it doesn't matter for them anyway.

Well, I personally would encourage anyone to participate as a neutral athlete if given the chance and would cheer for them if they were from my country.

It's always very easy to talk but when you have trained your whole life for something like this that you might only have a single shot at winning while in your prime, it'd be much too much to give up for. I'd go as far as to say that it's not the athlete betraying their country but their country betraying the athlete.