Jackson Ultima Matrix Supreme blades - opinions/reviews wanted!

[High Carbon]

Thank you for your review @kolyadafan2002 !

So far, no positive reviews of this blade here.
Japanese stainless steel knives (cooking knives) are famous worldwide and quite expensive as well, but I wonder if the material gives the same quality/performance for skating blades?

I've always wanted a proper Japanese steel chef or santoku knife! I have the Kitchen Aid Japanese Steel knives but I don't know anything about their metal. But as I've been using carbon steel more and more I've grown an affinity for the material and now I really want a proper Japanese high carbon steel kitchen knife. Kitchen knives have a very high carbon content making them capable of holding a seriously sharp edge and retain it for a long time. Figure skate blades have a lower carbon content which allows them to take more impact and blunt instead of just snapping or chipping. If a figure skate blade was made out of the same metal as a Japanese knife it would likely break after some decently heavy jumps. I believe most sword reproductions are made of a medium-high carbon content steel similar to skate blades for this same reason; edge retention and durability. But the 1050 and 1075 carbon steels still make for wonderful kitchen knives!

 

[tstop4me]

That's interesting, I didn't realize their Supremes used a Japanese steel! Their aluminum chasses are definitely from Taiwan but I was unsure of their steel. I asked about the alloy the Phoenixes are made of and it looks like Wilson is keeping that a close secret. Where did you get your information on which steels are used in which blades? Is it published anywhere or did you just ask the Jackson reps?

It's published openly on their websites.

Jackson Matrix: https://jacksonultima.com/pages/bladesproducts

Legacy: "The Matrix Legacy Series utilizes the same Aircraft Aluminum chassis used in our Advanced Series blades. The Legacy runner is produced from 420J stainless steel which offers improved benefits over the carbon steel. Faster with superior edge control and less frequent sharpening. Experience the Matrix Legacy Series advantage! The Legacy pick pattern is ideal for intermediate level skaters." <<Emphasis added>>

RXS: "Maintaining the features of our Matrix blade that make it the best blade on the market, including a lightweight Aircraft Grade aluminum chassis, extremely strong Japanese AUS8 Stainless Steel runner, and superior edge control with a tapered edge, you can now replace the runners in a matter of seconds!" <<Emphasis original>>

Advanced (including Supreme): "The Matrix Advanced Series blades feature an extremely strong yet lightweight Aircraft Aluminum chassis with Japanese AUS8 Stainless Steel. The combination of advanced materials and design creates a superior blade to others on the market." <<Emphasis original>>

Wilson Phoenix: https://www.johnwilsonskates.com/phoenix

Stainless Steel​

The 420 stainless steel variant we’ve selected is specifically formulated to provide improved corrosion resistance and unrivalled edge life. <<Emphasis added>>

[ETA: For the price of a Phoenix, I'm disappointed that Wilson didn't go with 440C or comparable. It'll be interesting to find out whether they at least use 420HC, instead of a lower grade 420 variant.]

 

[High Carbon]

It's published openly on their websites.

Jackson Matrix: https://jacksonultima.com/pages/bladesproducts

Legacy: "The Matrix Legacy Series utilizes the same Aircraft Aluminum chassis used in our Advanced Series blades. The Legacy runner is produced from 420J stainless steel which offers improved benefits over the carbon steel. Faster with superior edge control and less frequent sharpening. Experience the Matrix Legacy Series advantage! The Legacy pick pattern is ideal for intermediate level skaters." <<Emphasis added>>

RXS: "Maintaining the features of our Matrix blade that make it the best blade on the market, including a lightweight Aircraft Grade aluminum chassis, extremely strong Japanese AUS8 Stainless Steel runner, and superior edge control with a tapered edge, you can now replace the runners in a matter of seconds!" <<Emphasis original>>

Advanced (including Supreme): "The Matrix Advanced Series blades feature an extremely strong yet lightweight Aircraft Aluminum chassis with Japanese AUS8 Stainless Steel. The combination of advanced materials and design creates a superior blade to others on the market." <<Emphasis original>>

Wilson Phoenix: https://www.johnwilsonskates.com/phoenix

Stainless Steel​

The 420 stainless steel variant we’ve selected is specifically formulated to provide improved corrosion resistance and unrivalled edge life. <<Emphasis added>>

[ETA: For the price of a Phoenix, I'm disappointed that Wilson didn't go with 440C or comparable. It'll be interesting to find out whether they at least use 420HC, instead of a lower grade 420 variant.]

I'd certainly hope they use a high carbon 420 variant! AUS8 is an extremely good steel, if they want to compete with Matrix Supreme then they'll need a good stainless steel. I haven't heard a lot of feedback yet on the RXS blades. The idea is great and the steel is perfect but as a sharpener I would wonder what the functional life on a pair or runners are as they get sharpened down but the secondary rocker and the toepick stay the same... At least with the Phoenixes people are seeming to like them, I've only known one person to actively prefer Matrix over Phoenix so far.

 

[christy]

I started out with MK Pros but they needed sharpening every few weeks and it was a long drive to get them sharpened, so I transitioned to the Matrix Legacy, which lasted 4 times longer between sharpenings. I preferred the Legacies, and transitioning to them took about 5 minutes. Then because of availability issues I got a pair of Matrix Supremes and again the transition took about 5 minutes. I don't love the Supremes as much as the Legacies as I find them a bit less stable, but I do think spins are a bit better, so some pros, some cons. Personally I prefer both to the MK Pros, and not just because of the extended sharpening times.
However the biggest issue is finding someone to sharpen them. I've found two techs who do a great job, and one who failed 3 times out of 4.

 

[honosuke]

Hello,

Does anyone here use Jackson Ultima Matrix Supreme blades, especially those of you who switched to it from JW blades, and if so, I would love to hear your opinions, reviews, experiences with them.
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BACKSTORY (made short)- One of the teams at my rink (not mine, other ladies coached by another coach) mass switched from their past blades (Coronation Ace, Coronation Ace light, Gold Seal, Gold Seal Rev and so on) to Jackson Ultima Matrix Supreme blades (apparetnly the stainless steel used in them it's a Japanese stainless steel, high quality). They all imported them at the same time, received them, had them mounted, tested them out and 100% of them say that the switch to this blade from their previous blade was the best thing that happened in their skating lives, they're incredibly happy and these blades are way better to skate on than the JW blades they previously had. I was very curious and made sure to "interview" all of them and the reply was along the same lines.
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Personally I'm satisfied with my Coronation Ace blades, have no intention of switching right now, nor my coaches or our team they coach have said anything about any mass switching (ladies in my team have either Coronation Ace, Coronation Ace light, or Gold Seal, or Pattern 99, Rev or no Rev, same as the other team had), but now this has left me REALLY curious and wanting to know opinions/reviews/experiences from other skaters besides my rink's skaters regarding these allegedly miraculous Jackson Ultima Matrix Supreme blades by these skaters, are the bestest thing and make skating much better.

Thank you very much in advance!

Matrix blades run very fast. They carry me to the edge of the rink effortlessly like a nimble motorboat. Gold seal is as smooth as spreading butter on bread. It has a different pleasure than the Matrix. Both require more advanced skating skills from me. They are good at revealing my skating flaws.

which one do you prefer?

Oops, what about coronation? He's such a laid back cool guy to miss my naps.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

It's published openly on their websites.

Jackson Matrix: https://jacksonultima.com/pages/bladesproducts

Legacy: "The Matrix Legacy Series utilizes the same Aircraft Aluminum chassis used in our Advanced Series blades. The Legacy runner is produced from 420J stainless steel which offers improved benefits over the carbon steel. Faster with superior edge control and less frequent sharpening. Experience the Matrix Legacy Series advantage! The Legacy pick pattern is ideal for intermediate level skaters." <<Emphasis added>>

RXS: "Maintaining the features of our Matrix blade that make it the best blade on the market, including a lightweight Aircraft Grade aluminum chassis, extremely strong Japanese AUS8 Stainless Steel runner, and superior edge control with a tapered edge, you can now replace the runners in a matter of seconds!" <<Emphasis original>>

Advanced (including Supreme): "The Matrix Advanced Series blades feature an extremely strong yet lightweight Aircraft Aluminum chassis with Japanese AUS8 Stainless Steel. The combination of advanced materials and design creates a superior blade to others on the market." <<Emphasis original>>

Wilson Phoenix: https://www.johnwilsonskates.com/phoenix

Stainless Steel​

The 420 stainless steel variant we’ve selected is specifically formulated to provide improved corrosion resistance and unrivalled edge life. <<Emphasis added>>

[ETA: For the price of a Phoenix, I'm disappointed that Wilson didn't go with 440C or comparable. It'll be interesting to find out whether they at least use 420HC, instead of a lower grade 420 variant.]

The Phoenix, in my experience, are absolutely atrocious blades btw, nothing like gold seal. Even matrix supreme feel 10x better to me, and I don't like those. They could make phoenix out of any material and I still would never consider purchasing them.

I just want to mention, to those defending Matrix Supreme having never used gold seal, Matrix Supreme aren't poisonous. They just have a few flaws that make them less pleasant than gold seal, and Jackson can say they're like a gold seal. But they aren't. They are totally different to skate on , and that's profile more than material.

For those looking for 420J vs 440C comparison, Eclipse use 440C iirc. My blades (that aren't eclipse) also use 440C. It feels closer to wilson carbon steel, but at the same time doesn't rust as easily.

 

[Trensharo]

Might be worth remembering that people who invest in expensive equipment rarely admit when they have made a mistake.

No one who isn't even jumping yet really cares whether or not a Supreme feels like a GS, because they almost certainly don't have Gold Seals and likely never will. If the Supremes feel good to them, they will simply continue using them. The same way people who liked GS continued using them, recommended them to their friends, and then all their friends came back saying they were amazing - despite a lack of basis for comparison, except low level FS blades (MK Pro, Apex Legacy, CorAce, etc.).

That's how JW/MK established themselves in the market - by becoming the most used thing. Customer-based marketing. Coaches telling parents what to buy their kids, and them doing it and then sticking to it. The same thing is happening with Boots (Edea, Aura, etc.) at the expense of "Legacy" bootmakers/manufacturers. Some shops barely stock anything else (except lower level/beginner skates).

I don't see how it's any different if a bunch of people decide to swap en mass to Matrix Supremes than if they all swapped en masse to Gold Seal Revolutions.

The only difference is that JW is the more reputable brand here, and the one that most people have defaulted to for the exact same reasons these people are moving to those blades ;-)

Lower level skaters will adjust to any blade you put them in. People without a suitable basis for comparison will not spot a mistake. They will simply persevere and gradually/eventually adjust to what they have, and it will become fine... good... great... even AMAZING!!! - eventually. Most people have short memories when recommending equipment to others (Boots, Blades, etc.), as well.

Personally, I find the Eclipse Pinnacle almost indistinguishable from a JW Gold Seal (I cannot speak for a Supreme, as I have never worn them), so I would never spend more money on the JW blade - especially since I find they rust more easily than almost anything else I've ever owned. They feel high maintenance to me, and their tolerances are a bit too lax for my liking. They tend to dull more easily.

The Pattern 99 is an enigma and no third party blade really clones it - or even comes close. If you want a P99, you have to get a P99. However, I also think it is probably the most polarizing blade on the market so it's a risk to get one - especially if you have already acclimated to another high-level freestyle blade. For skating and jumping, I love my P99s (tapered drag pick notwithstanding), but I'd need a good month to adjust to spinning on them so I had to shelve them after a couple of weeks.

Going from "clones" like Eclipse Infinity and Apex Elite to a Pattern 99 isn't really much easier than going from a Gold Seal or Pinnacle to a Pattern 99. Personal experience. For people already skating on something else, an MK Phantom is probably an easier transition if you want a blade aimed at the same general niche (a "jumping blade" - though I really reject that kind of categorization as I find biomechanical and physiological factors determine how well a blade is suitable for any one thing for any one particular skater).

 

[alyssamarie]

I switched from coronation ace to matrix legacy and love them. Was about 10 years ago at this point so couldn't tell you a specific difference besides the fact that my skating has improved a lot and I don't have to sharpen them as much. I just got a second pair of blades since I wore down the first ones.

 

[Trensharo]

I also think there is a pricing gap in JW/MK's product line (ignoring variants of Coronation Ace/MK Professional), because MK discontinued the MK Vision and JW doesn't really have anything in that pricing bracket. They simply changed the description of the MK Pro to basically make it cover what they were selling the MK Vision for, as well.

Ironically, I actually find blades like the Eclipse Infinity and Apex Elite to be more comparable to an MK Vision than a Pattern 99 - just with an 8ft Rocker Radius.

A lot of competing blades that market to the same level of a P99/Phantom/GSe/GSt slotted into that pricing bracket and exploited this to grow their market share - effectively selling competing products at half the price.

The prices of the Apex blades only went up after they had already established themselves, and some market momentum.

For those who aren't familiar, this was the MK Vision: