I know Kaitlyn and Jean Luc are super disappointed with Skate Canada results. But I have to say they were a little off in the FD and Lilah and Lewis killed it. I'm a big H/B fan but, I think, a better skate inched them out. I still love H/B's FD and they should continue to refine. Tough but I think the judges got it right.
Kaitlin Hawayek & Jean-Luc Baker
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Yea it was tough to watch their reaction but fear/Gibson put out the better performance. I still really enjoyed their free skate though!
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What I know about ice dance could fit on the head of a pin. But I'm told by a person who is very knowledgeable about ice dance and this person says H/B had a much higher tech content than Fear/Gibson (who I also like but would not put in the same category as H/B.) I would love to see them move to another coaching situation. I'm aware they just went to Gadbois last year and possibly that was the right move for some things but I don't think they are getting good choreography and I don't think the coaching situation is gelling for whatever reason. I just literally could not believe they were 20 points behind the leaders. I mean it was insane. If they are happy to end up fighting for 3rd or 4th in GPs and at US Nationals then I am happy for them, but I don't believe that to be the case. I really only want the best for them, if they are happy I am happy, but they did not look happy yesterday. Not at all.
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No they didn’t look happy at all. H/B are one of my fave ice dance teams but this free is lacking in good choreography/ and projection. It felt very bland when put beside other teams. They need more innovation. I haven’t looked at the protocols yet but it will be interesting to see where their sores fell.
Looking at the protocols, they lost a lot of levels. If they had gotten just a few more levels, they would have taken the win. However, they did still have a slightly higher base value than the Brits. Where they really lost it was on GOE. Their GOE was lower almost across the board. I think Kaitlin's costume really breaks their lines and makes everything look clunky, which won't help them earn GOE. Unfortunately, with this scoring system, having a higher base value will only help so much. They were also a bit behind on PCS, but that was marginal.
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I have to agree with you on the costume. Hopefully they can work on it and make a few changes. It would be a pity to see them drop this season as I really took notice of them last season for the first time. They seemed to be ok the right path. It’s still early in the season. Ice dance always feels so set in stone so it’s actually good to see a bit of movement and some competition!
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They were 20 points behind the leaders. I mean..20 points....the FD is their strength. I wish they would get on a plane and get Charlie White to choreograph them something. Like, today.
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Can you tell me where to get it? NBC Gold, which I pay a lot of money for, can’t be bothered to show the exhibitions. They sure do block them on YouTube on copyright grounds, though.
I honestly think that some of the judges just really liked the fun, Madonna dance of Lila and Lewis over the edgy Flamenco of Kaitlin and Jean-Luc and that somehow penetrated the GOEs. One judge didn't decide this but the British judge was pretty tough on Kaitlin and Jean-Luc in GOEs and components. Much harder than the US judge in reverse. Mostly, it seemed to me that the judges just liking the overall feel of L/L over K/JL.
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I took notice of them at Nationals in 2018. She’s like a magnet, she draws me in. Their FD at that competition was the highlight of the competition for me. Last year was a good year for them. Gold at NHK and 4th at GP France and they made the GP Final. Their next competition is Cup of China where they will have to battle it out for bronze, and people are taking their slide to 4th in the US as inevitable.
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Tabitha loves Kaitlin and Jean Luc. She calls shenanigans. https://twitter.com/riverofchange/status/1189165469468680193?s=21
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It is up in the Skate Canada,Videos thread now. .. I saw it yesterday.. hope it isn't blocked
so hilarious!!Despite their 4th place finish I am still very high on H/B. I think their skating order in the FD at Skate Canada hurt them. The judges really liked Fear/Gibson and then gave strong marks to Piper/Paul and Madison/Zac - all well deserved. I think, though, there was a bit of a "knee-jerk" in bringing down the GOEs for Kaitlin and Jean-Luc with a few of the judges which resulted in probably a lower than deserved score. I hope they continue to strengthen and refine both the current SD and FD. Although the GPF is unlikely for Kaitlin and Jean-Luc, I still think they will hold third place in Nationals.
Their SD performance really gave me hope in that it was both confidently skated and acknowledged as such by the judges. The FD is quite original and strong as well, but the judging was all over the place. I thought JLB’s skating and Kaitlin’s performance was (and has been) under-appreciated by judges and I don’t know why. I mean this performance should be right behind H/D’s in my book, and ahead of Piper/Paul. Their programs are certainly much more sophisticated than the top two Russian teams we’ve seen.
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That is what I am saying. They were 20 points behind. No one can explain to me why. I even forced myself to watch the Olympic Channel broadcast in hopes Tanith could explain it. I'm not a stupid person. I cannot comprehend it. Chatter elsewhere on the boards has many predicting their "inevitable slide" into the 4th place US team. While I was forcing myself to watch the Olympic channel broadcast, Tanith was going on and on about how well they did last year and how much more would be expected. Then they showed the free dance and really no information was given at all about why they lost. They can't possibly be pleased at placing 4th (and again chatter has them 4th at their next GP) so potentially no GP medals, certainly no final, and well, I just hope they do better at Nationals. Maybe they'll be sent to some senior Bs? How else does one tweak one's performance? I love watching them so this is just a bitter pill for me to swallow.
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I did the same -watched the Olympic Channel hoping that Tanith or Ben could shed some light on H/B's scores and what exactly was lacking. Either they didn't know or chose to just gloss over it and talk about their successes from last year. Disappointing on all counts.
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I mean, H/B were over 20 points behind H/D at Worlds last year too, so I'm not sure why that number itself is so surprising. If we want to talk about Fear/Gibson, then here's a little breakdown of the FD:
PCS - H/B won SS and TR, F/G won PE, CO and IN. That makes sense, though I would give H/B a bigger gap for SS especially.
BV - H/B were 0.75 higher, because they have level 3 on the step sequence while F/G had level 2. All the other levels were the same.
GOE - H/B got 18.15 points in GOE, and F/G got 21.98. Let's look by element:
One foot steps - 0.2 more for H/B
Midline/Circular steps - 0.14 more for H/B
Spin - 0.16 more for H/B
Solo lift - same for both
Twizzles - 0.41 more for F/G
Combo lifts - 1.44 more for F/G
Character step - 0.47 more for F/G
Choreo slide - 0.83 more for F/G
3rd choreo element (spin for H/B, lift for F/G) - 1.18 more for F/G
So the big difference is in the lifts and the choreo elements (especially the choreo lift). H/B have never had the most effortless lifts, from what I remember, probably in part due to their height difference. But also, Lewis is a really, really great lifter. Their combo lift is insanely cool and really difficult and well-executed. So they are not easy to match there.
I haven't gone back to watch, to really analyze each element, so I can't be super specific. But I have seen some people saying that the FD is a bit dense. That was also said about V/M's original Moulin Rouge, and they had to rework it to give themselves more room to breathe and to show off the quality of their elements and skating. That might help H/B earn more on the steps and in SS. And adding a bit more lightness and humour to the program might help them make the choreo elements just that bit more special.
I do think it's really important for H/B to maximize points on the steps and things, since they don't get the most points on the lifts, which are worth a lot.
I think their RD is really good, and the FD has a lot of potential, but it does need to be reworked a bit - and they need a clearer concept of the program, imo. Currently it's kind of convoluted, and I think that comes through.
PCS - H/B won SS and TR, F/G won PE, CO and IN. That makes sense, though I would give H/B a bigger gap for SS especially.
BV - H/B were 0.75 higher, because they have level 3 on the step sequence while F/G had level 2. All the other levels were the same.
GOE - H/B got 18.15 points in GOE, and F/G got 21.98. Let's look by element:
One foot steps - 0.2 more for H/B
Midline/Circular steps - 0.14 more for H/B
Spin - 0.16 more for H/B
Solo lift - same for both
Twizzles - 0.41 more for F/G
Combo lifts - 1.44 more for F/G
Character step - 0.47 more for F/G
Choreo slide - 0.83 more for F/G
3rd choreo element (spin for H/B, lift for F/G) - 1.18 more for F/G
So the big difference is in the lifts and the choreo elements (especially the choreo lift). H/B have never had the most effortless lifts, from what I remember, probably in part due to their height difference. But also, Lewis is a really, really great lifter. Their combo lift is insanely cool and really difficult and well-executed. So they are not easy to match there.
I haven't gone back to watch, to really analyze each element, so I can't be super specific. But I have seen some people saying that the FD is a bit dense. That was also said about V/M's original Moulin Rouge, and they had to rework it to give themselves more room to breathe and to show off the quality of their elements and skating. That might help H/B earn more on the steps and in SS. And adding a bit more lightness and humour to the program might help them make the choreo elements just that bit more special.
I do think it's really important for H/B to maximize points on the steps and things, since they don't get the most points on the lifts, which are worth a lot.
I think their RD is really good, and the FD has a lot of potential, but it does need to be reworked a bit - and they need a clearer concept of the program, imo. Currently it's kind of convoluted, and I think that comes through.
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