Love and Punishment

[Meganda]

Megibaci, I have some questions. Wait for me, wait....

I will try to help with as much as I know, see if you can do it. To make the Turkish “r”, touch the back of your front teeth with the tip of your tongue and by kind of blowing strongly say “r”. The sound will come from a small space created between the tongue and the back of the teeth. Cicek has a wonderful pronounciation of “r”s, especially when she is mad. Try to find any dialogue of hers. While in English the toungue doesn’t touch anything, it’s a deep throat sound. Lol... maybe if we were on skype I might show you, this is very funny. Tell me please, if this helped.

then is it like the Spanish rolling r?

 

[Meganda]

I am glad you had a good time. Sounds like a nice option.
How is the weather in LA this time of the year? It’s not humid right? Here in the east it’s been humid these days. Plus, it is becoming like rain forest: rain, sun, rain again sun. Really strange.

Weather here is strange this year, it is warm but we haven't really had a heat wave yet, but for sure it isn't humid. It's been like you back and forth between warm and cool. That's why I have not understood the eastern snowbirds going to Florida. The humidity there is horrendous.

 

[Dafna]

then is it like the Spanish rolling r?

Yes, exactly!
A wonderful example of the two languages pronouncing it the same I think might be the movie “Spanglish”, when the Spanish lady tries to explain her how she pronounces her name Flor with the strong r at the end and the word “var” in Turkish (there is). Especially when the sentence is a short answer “var”.
I hope this makes sense, right?

 

[Meganda]

Yes, exactly!
A wonderful example of the two languages pronouncing it the same I think might be the movie “Spanglish”, when the Spanish lady tries to explain her how she pronounces her name Flor with the strong r at the end and the word “var” in Turkish (there is). Especially when the sentence is a short answer “var”.
I hope this makes sense, right?

I took Spanish in high school and remember the rolling r sound, but the final r in Turkish sounds more like sh rather than a roll. Maybe it's a short quick roll in addition to a swish of breath passing quickly over the tongue at the same time which would cause it to sound like sh to foreign ears even though it's not sh

 

[Scout12]

Dafna

Summer is my excuse. And we’re DIY’ing a renovation. With the recent G7, the growing trade disputes, and then the immigration developments, I’ve found it hard to get lost in LP lately. But I watched Ep 32 again a few days ago after reading your summary and comments. A few thoughts ....

Remember when Nadya, Cem and Savas summarized Savas’ life – guns, shootings, drugs, traditions, arranged marriages. In this episode, Leyla's listening to the news and she hears them describing the Baldar family business as a possible heroin smuggling operation most likely connected to organized crime. When the police arrested Savas they said something about searching Yasemin’s villa for guns. Leyla even wonders if Savas uses heroin himself. We know he doesn't, but I get why she wondered this – it’s a logical question to go to IMO. I think/hope my approach would be different than Leyla’s, but as I said before - if I was Yasemin’s mother I’d be saying the same things, “Get out of this relationship and away from this family, I beg you”. And as you said Dafna, all this is on top of what Leyla went through with her other daughter, and the guilt she feels over that.

Sevgi. Dafna, I think I get where Sevgi’s coming from here. She's been such a strong advocate for Savas. Before when Yasemin got upset, Sevgi urged her to talk to him - try and understand the difficult life he leads, believe in the love he has for you. I know she talks about money in this episode - pushes to get this contract signed - but remember she’s the accounts manager at YS, so she knows how fragile their company is financially. Sevgi told Yasemin they need this account to survive. To go bankrupt would be the second time for Sevgi. They have staff that depends on YS to support themselves. I understand Yasemin’s emotions and the pain about her personal life, but I don’t get it when she says she can’t work because she’s so upset. Her mum has spent all her pension helping out Yasemin and Omer, how will they survive if this company goes under? Sevgi makes the argument here that Yasemin should use Omer as motivation to focus on work – if Savas goes to prison, that would leave Yasemin alone to raise him, pay for school etc. And Sevgi reminds Yasemin how good she is at what she does, so it might help her emotions - “let work distract your mind, don’t sit at home and get more depressed”.

Sevgi leaving Yasemin drunk at the bar. I agree with you here – friends don’t leave friends who are that drunk alone to get home. If Yasemin wanted to drink some more and then go to her other home for the night, get her a bottle of wine somewhere and then drop her off, but make sure she gets there safe and sound. Sevgi did agree to go stay with Leyla and Omer though, which I thought was good of her. I liked how she was running interference between Leyla and Yasemin, to help.

Esref hugging Savas. I slipped out of LP fantasy here and thought about how long Savas had been in that suit – 3 days. In real life, his deodorant would have long since given up. There was no sign from Esref when they hugged that he had entered a cloud of BO . That’s a true friend.

In this episode, did you notice Valdemar used the expression Cicek uses later on – “I’m the meat in the sandwich”.

Cicek laughing (and encouraging) as Yavuz feeds Baran dinner. Here Cicek looses me. Even though Nazan wasn’t there, Yavuz at the dinner table like that - just seems so wrong. And she should have known that was crossing a line. I loved that Esref was so angry.

Loan word at 45:45 – “gendarme” – French, “police”.

I enjoyed your summary and comments Dafna.

 

[Scout12]

“Turkey on the Edge” – I watched this on YouTube as well. Really interesting.

Another one from the same production company – Journeyman Pictures - is “The Divide – Turkey”. This one focuses on Istanbul. It’s also on YouTube.

 

[Dafna]

No not yet, I was waiting for any questions you all might have. I do want to ask her how she forms the final r: where is her tongue, lips, teeth and breath are in order to form the final r (hoping that we'll finally be able to understand how it's pronounced!) :sarcasm: :hpull:

Mehraba Meganda bacigim,

If I am asking for too much, just forget it, it is not a big deal. These are the questions that I couldn’t answer over time:

-How does one know when there is a silent “ğ”? They just memorize the spelling of that word? I knew "oğlum" meant my son, but it took me awhile to figure out its correct spelling “oğlum”, because of the silent “ğ”.

-What does the suffix “şi” mean at the end of the word. I assume it refers to the place, or like we say: Al’s restaurant, but I am not sure. Like it was “koftecişi”.

-The word narde (where): it is used before the name and after, does that have any connection with the context? For example: on E24 Savas asks Lejla: “Narde Omer?” and Yasemine asks Lejla: “Omer narde?”. Does this happen because Savas assumed Omer was there, and Yasemine was sure Omer was there.

-The word "tabiki", "tabii", "tabiya". I assume tabiki is the formal one, and tabii is informal. How about the tabiya, and most of the time they go tabiyaaa (with a long a).

-"Havaliman": why they write it "havaliman" when they say "hava alan".

-What does “murtaga” mean, that they have for breakfast? I think it is omelet, but it doesn’t translate like that. Egg – yumurta, eggs – yumurtalar. Is it something else? Maybe by knowing, we can learn a Turkish egg recipe.

"Estağfurullah" – don’t mention it. How about "tobestağfurullah", what does that mean? Sounds like a cool expression.

-What is the male version of “Yenge”: Teyze’s husband or Halla’s husband (aunt’s husband).

If you think there too many questions, just send two or three, it is ok.


Teşekkür ederim, Megi Abla! :luv17:

 

[Dafna]

then is it like the Spanish rolling r?

It is some like Spanish rolling, considering that the tongue goes in the front. But the Spanish "r" is much stronger and longer and associated with the lips that move forward. The Turkish one is not long and not associated with the lips. Lips almost don't move or move a bit but not forward. I hope I was clear. I want to know what the Turkish lady will say.

 

[Dafna]

Dafna

Summer is my excuse. And we’re DIY’ing a renovation. With the recent G7, the growing trade disputes, and then the immigration developments, I’ve found it hard to get lost in LP lately. But I watched Ep 32 again a few days ago after reading your summary and comments. A few thoughts ....

Remember when Nadya, Cem and Savas summarized Savas’ life – guns, shootings, drugs, traditions, arranged marriages. In this episode, Leyla's listening to the news and she hears them describing the Baldar family business as a possible heroin smuggling operation most likely connected to organized crime. When the police arrested Savas they said something about searching Yasemin’s villa for guns. Leyla even wonders if Savas uses heroin himself. We know he doesn't, but I get why she wondered this – it’s a logical question to go to IMO. I think/hope my approach would be different than Leyla’s, but as I said before - if I was Yasemin’s mother I’d be saying the same things, “Get out of this relationship and away from this family, I beg you”. And as you said Dafna, all this is on top of what Leyla went through with her other daughter, and the guilt she feels over that.

Sevgi. Dafna, I think I get where Sevgi’s coming from here. She's been such a strong advocate for Savas. Before when Yasemin got upset, Sevgi urged her to talk to him - try and understand the difficult life he leads, believe in the love he has for you. I know she talks about money in this episode - pushes to get this contract signed - but remember she’s the accounts manager at YS, so she knows how fragile their company is financially. Sevgi told Yasemin they need this account to survive. To go bankrupt would be the second time for Sevgi. They have staff that depends on YS to support themselves. I understand Yasemin’s emotions and the pain about her personal life, but I don’t get it when she says she can’t work because she’s so upset. Her mum has spent all her pension helping out Yasemin and Omer, how will they survive if this company goes under? Sevgi makes the argument here that Yasemin should use Omer as motivation to focus on work – if Savas goes to prison, that would leave Yasemin alone to raise him, pay for school etc. And Sevgi reminds Yasemin how good she is at what she does, so it might help her emotions - “let work distract your mind, don’t sit at home and get more depressed”.

Sevgi leaving Yasemin drunk at the bar. I agree with you here – friends don’t leave friends who are that drunk alone to get home. If Yasemin wanted to drink some more and then go to her other home for the night, get her a bottle of wine somewhere and then drop her off, but make sure she gets there safe and sound. Sevgi did agree to go stay with Leyla and Omer though, which I thought was good of her. I liked how she was running interference between Leyla and Yasemin, to help.

Esref hugging Savas. I slipped out of LP fantasy here and thought about how long Savas had been in that suit – 3 days. In real life, his deodorant would have long since given up. There was no sign from Esref when they hugged that he had entered a cloud of BO . That’s a true friend.

In this episode, did you notice Valdemar used the expression Cicek uses later on – “I’m the meat in the sandwich”.

Cicek laughing (and encouraging) as Yavuz feeds Baran dinner. Here Cicek looses me. Even though Nazan wasn’t there, Yavuz at the dinner table like that - just seems so wrong. And she should have known that was crossing a line. I loved that Esref was so angry.

Loan word at 45:45 – “gendarme” – French, “police”.

I enjoyed your summary and comments Dafna.

Scout,
thank you for your comments. You have taken good points. As much as I like to respond to your comments, I won't. I can't make the case for Leyla or/and Sevgi without referring to the next episode. So, out of respect of Efendi's summary work I can't go ahead. But I will answer after.

It's good you are doing DYI work in your house. I think it is still cool in your neck of the woods, so it feels good working outside. Because here where I am the sun is very strong and is so much humid these days, that one cant think of doing any work that is not on AC environment. I have some ideas for some small projects, that I want to do in my house, but my husband and I always say next year, next year. Like the next year we will be younger and stronger. Scout dear, enjoy and have a good time!

Teşekkür ederim, güle güle!

 

[Scout12]

Dafna

Right now most of eastern and southern Ontario is under a heat advisory. We use metric, so I’ll convert for you. Tomorrow in Toronto when you take into account the humidity, the high of 95F will feel like 113F.

Another video recommendation. It’s from ABC News Australia – “The Bridge” – available on YouTube. It’s about the failed Turkish coup (2016), and what’s happened since.

Asi. Denner, if you read this, and I hope you do – I would love to know how you watched this series from beginning to end. You mentioned Spanish – did you find the whole thing with Spanish subtitles somewhere? I have some passing knowledge of French and German, but I’m unilingual English. I had to bounce between YouTube and Daily Motion, but even then I still wasn’t able to find all the episodes with English subtitles. Murat Yildirim has acting chops, no doubt about it. The scenes where Demir has to drag it out of Asi that she went to Assos to look for him. “That” scene in the hospital, and then when Demir and Asi tell Asya about her Dad – so well written, and they both nailed it. Not to mention the little girl who plays Asya. One last thing – in the theatre, they talk about the 4th wall. I noticed that at the end of the series several characters broke the 4th wall. I’d love to know why – what was the reason for direct communication with the audience. I really hope this series is translated into English. I think it’s on par with LP.

To all the Canadians here – Happy Birthday to us.

 

[Dafna]

Iyi Sabahlar!

Can somebody PLEASE tell me where to find “damn the torpedoes”? I found it in E30 the morning after the big fight. I know it is in other episodes. I’m trying but I can’t find it. I am in to something.

Tesekkur ederim, gule gule!

 

[Scout12]

Iyi Sabahlar!

Can somebody PLEASE tell me where to find “damn the torpedoes”? I found it in E30 the morning after the big fight. I know it is in other episodes. I’m trying but I can’t find it. I am in to something.

Tesekkur ederim, gule gule!

Dafna

Damn the torpedoes -

1. Ep 31, @16:20, Nazan to Bora in the car, after she revealed to her family that they married. Something like - “I don’t care anymore, they all ruined my life. Damn the torpedoes.”

2. Ep 31 again, start at 1:22;33, Savas to Cicek after she’s returned from the funeral in Van “You will come tomorrow and this nonsense will end. Damn the torpedoes.” (I love this scene. No more sweet cooperative Cicek. She blows up, screams “I won’t ruin my life so you can be her husband”. And the glass starts flying. Buckle up … here we go.)

Off the top of my head, those are 2 I remember. But I feel it’s said elsewhere – all through the series really. I’ll do some more looking, let you know if I find it elsewhere.

 

[Dafna]

Dafna

Damn the torpedoes -

1. Ep 31, @16:20, Nazan to Bora in the car, after she revealed to her family that they married. Something like - “I don’t care anymore, they all ruined my life. Damn the torpedoes.”

2. Ep 31 again, start at 1:22;33, Savas to Cicek after she’s returned from the funeral in Van “You will come tomorrow and this nonsense will end. Damn the torpedoes.” (I love this scene. No more sweet cooperative Cicek. She blows up, screams “I won’t ruin my life so you can be her husband”. And the glass starts flying. Buckle up … here we go.)

Off the top of my head, those are 2 I remember. But I feel it’s said elsewhere – all through the series really. I’ll do some more looking, let you know if I find it elsewhere.

Thank you very much Scout!
If you just see it when you’ll watch LP next time let me know, but don’t look for it just for this purpose. I believe this might be enough for my purpose. Thank you again!

 

[Dafna]

On E30 at 1:13:28 mark, the morning after the big fight Savas says: Ne olacak olsun? – what will happen?, who cares what happens?, or the famous “Damn the Torpedoes”. The same expression is used in E31. I dont understand why did they use the torpedoes expression. Another question answered. :luv17:

While I was checking for the above, I recognized something else. When Savas met with Hakan for the first time, in the car, on the way to meet with the Valdemars, Hakan asked Savas if he could stop for a bit. On 1:21:50 mark, Savas says: Boğazını özledin mi? – Do you miss Bosphorus?

 

[Dafna]

Mehraba Ladies,

In my turkish bubbling today I learned something I want to share with you:

Eyva…. Eyva….

The famous expression Eyva eyva that Nazan says to Pala in the car after the launch party, NE21. It is translated Oh, my God!
Eyva is the short version of eyvallah, which literally means: “it is from Allah and we accept it as it is”. The word derives from Arabic (which I know nothing). It is said in both good and bad situations. Usually it is said as a form of thank you, appreciate you, or as an informal or alternative of Teşekkürler. If somebody offers you food and you are full you say Eyvallah!
But even when there is a bad situation you still say Eyvallah (so even when it is bad, you still accept it, because comes from God). It is mostly used by old people or people from rural areas. It is not used by modern Turks. It is mostly said among men and boys, maybe in a rogue way. Women don’t say it very often. Women say it in the Eyva version, like Nazan.
To come back to our story, in other words Nazan uses it in a bad situation, she said: it is not a good thing, but we are going to accept it. He fell in love with her, what can we do…

I don't want to sound from the countryside tonight , but I am still going to say it:

Eyvallah! Güle güle!


Happy 4th of July everybody, enjoy!!

 

[Meganda]

Oh my you all. Please forgive me. Summer and friends needing help have overtaken my life. There is so much I want to share but haven't had the time to do it. Please enter some comments if you want to continue on.

My best to you all.

 

[Dafna]

Oh my you all. Please forgive me. Summer and friends needing help have overtaken my life. There is so much I want to share but haven't had the time to do it. Please enter some comments if you want to continue on.

My best to you all.

Meganda bacigim, so nice to hear from you, and that everything is ok with you! Actually last night I was thinking to send you a pm asking how you are doing. It’s been quiet in this part of the town no comments at all from anybody. :scratch3: I wrote and wrote and wrote then it felt I was talking to myself, and stopped. I will send you a pm later.

YES, I want to continue! Hope everybody gets on board!
Have a wonderful day!

 

[Meganda]

Meganda bacigim, so nice to hear from you, and that everything is ok with you! Actually last night I was thinking to send you a pm asking how you are doing. It’s been quiet in this part of the town no comments at all from anybody. :scratch3: I wrote and wrote and wrote then it felt I was talking to myself, and stopped. I will send you a pm later.

YES, I want to continue! Hope everybody gets on board!
Have a wonderful day!

You have been exquisite with your writing and we have all so enjoyed it. Thank you

I have to tell you all something. Several good friends have separated from their husbands recently and have asked us if they could stay with us until they found housing. The first night here one of them said 'what do you have that we can binge watch?' You know of course what I said. One however was so exhausted that she said she couldn't get the mental energy to do all the subtitle reading. So I volunteered to read Savas and Sahnur, the other friend reads Cicek and Yasemin. For other characters we just jump in and take turns. It has been interesting.

She therefore can listen and actually watch the action and scenery. During NE 11 she shouted stop. At 39:50 she pointed out that Leyla has a square toilet seat! Sure enough it is. It's durig her washing machine problems while Yasi lives there. Really it's square!

And watching the episodes back to back (NE11 to NE12) I realized that it was Yasemin who called Savas to meet her at the park below the bridge. Up to that point I thought it was Savas who called her. That surprised me, but made sense and gave a reason why she came to it.

 

[Scout12]

It is - gone. I was checking the “what’s leaving Netflix” lists each month, never saw LP on one. I think Grand Hotel left Netflix for a while, then came back. Maybe - hopefully - LP will as well.

 

[Meganda]

It is - gone. I was checking the “what’s leaving Netflix” lists each month, never saw LP on one. I think Grand Hotel left Netflix for a while, then came back. Maybe - hopefully - LP will as well.

I'm going to call Netflix tomorrow about this, I'll let you know what they say