Mental health in figure skating

[DenissVFan]

"Назвался груздем, полезай к кузов", english analogue of this saying - "in for a penny, in for a pound"

This is the way of the best people. Yes, "they can’t be who they are", in my opinion it is obvious. If you are the first number of the country, like Misha - please, be worthy of the title. Honor and glory do not give for the beautiful eyes. On Olympics, you are the representative of the country, you are face, avatar, of country in this sport. And you do not have the right to dishonor the country. If you are not ready to live by such rules - leave and give way to others.

Come on. Since childhood these guys have been selected in such a way - there were a lot of competitions in their lives, and those of them who were weak, who could not live by such a law, left. Remained only strong and demands from them as with the strong.

This is sport, not war. Kolyada is a very good skater who proved numerous times that he deserves to be on the team. While his performance at the Olympics was disappointing, he didn't dishonour anyone. Mistakes happen and ice is slippery. The same goes for Alina at Worlds. There shouldn't be double standards for men and women in this respect.

Also, let men be vulnerable. They should know that they can seek help too.

 

[Fluture]

"Назвался груздем, полезай к кузов", english analogue of this saying - "in for a penny, in for a pound"

This is the way of the best people. Yes, "they can’t be who they are", in my opinion it is obvious. If you are the first number of the country, like Misha - please, be worthy of the title. Honor and glory do not give for the beautiful eyes. On Olympics, you are the representative of the country, you are face, avatar, of country in this sport. And you do not have the right to dishonor the country. If you are not ready to live by such rules - leave and give way to others.

Come on. Since childhood these guys have been selected in such a way - there were a lot of competitions in their lives, and those of them who were weak, who could not live by such a law, left. Remained only strong and demands from them as with the strong.

You do know that you are sending human beings to these competitions, right? Not robots. You really think skaters (or any athletes) have to be strong all the time, at all competitions or else they dishonor your country?

”You do not have the right to dishonor your country.“ Which means you don‘t have the right to fail, you don‘t have the right to show weakness and be weak sometimes. No offense, but that is unhealthy. It‘s calling for mental health problems. No one can survive a pressure like this forever. And does it make the situation better just because athletes were raised their whole life like this? I think not.

Just wanting to say that this is not a solely cultural thing. Athletes from different countries think they left their country down if they perform poorly once. It’s harsher in countries like Russia with a mentality like this but in genereal... media is harsh everywhere, fans are harsh, people are. I know it‘s like this. I wish it could be changed. Like, instead of kicking someone who‘s already on the ground and tell him he‘s a dishonor, help him get up and say he did poorly here but will do better next time. You don‘t have to praise them or anything. Criticize them but with respect!!

But what I really dislike here are the double standards. The blatant sexism. Sorry. But if women and girls have the right to be weak (as they should have!) so should have men. They are human beings, too! I just don‘t understand this.

 

[ancientpeas]

I wish I could figure out why people think Mikael owed them anything. He's a person. He is allowed to be human.

Thanks for the insight moriel. I think there is a stigma around mental illness everywhere. There are many programs here involved in getting people to talk about it. Untreated mental illness has a huge cost on society. Suicide, poverty, lack of productivity, addiction and physical illness are all directly related to mental health.

It would be really nice if this didn't become about cultures or nationalities. It's a difficult topic. If we treat it with respect and courtesy then we might be able to have an enlightened conversation.

It is also interesting to me that the most beautiful words I have ever read about depression come from Chekhov's The Heartache. I remember reading it and sobbing my eyes out in in class. The last line when he ends up talking to his horse because that is all that is left for him to talk tore me apart and left me a broken mess. And this was in translation! I can't even imagine what it is like in it's native Russian.

"Again he is alone, and again, there is silence for him… The heartache which had eased for a while, appears again and rends the breast with even greater force. Iona’s eyes run anxiously and tormentedly over the crowd surging along both sides of the street: from these thousands of people, can’t even one be found who would hear him out? But the crowds run along, not noticing him or his heartache… Vast, boundless heartache. If Iona’s breast burst and the heartache poured out, it seems it would flood the entire world – but nevertheless people do not see it. It managed to fit into such an insignificant shell that you would not see it in the daylight with a torch … "

 

[VenusHalley]

"Назвался груздем, полезай к кузов", english analogue of this saying - "in for a penny, in for a pound"

This is the way of the best people. Yes, "they can’t be who they are", in my opinion it is obvious. If you are the first number of the country, like Misha - please, be worthy of the title. Honor and glory do not give for the beautiful eyes. On Olympics, you are the representative of the country, you are face, avatar, of country in this sport. And you do not have the right to dishonor the country. If you are not ready to live by such rules - leave and give way to others.

Come on. Since childhood these guys have been selected in such a way - there were a lot of competitions in their lives, and those of them who were weak, who could not live by such a law, left. Remained only strong and demands from them as with the strong.

So what would changebfor common Russian people had he not made mistake? They would celebrate for few minutes, not even all of them.

He is not some traitor that made your country suffer. He is athlete who made mistake... ge did not do that on purpose.

These are people not medal machines that can be discarded the moment they stop bringing medals.

I get Russians were ubereverything about these Olympics... maybe that presure gotten to some of the athletes. Olympics tend to ve bit unpredictable anyways.

 

[ancientpeas]

Okay.. we are veering way, way off topic.

It would be nice to keep this thread so please let us agree to disagree.

 

[karne]

*catches up on this thread*

*buries face in pillow to muffle the horrified screeching*

*makes plans to kidnap the Russian men and get them the heck away from there*

 

[Mrs. P]

Gracie Gold said it quite well in a recent interview (which isn't up more): Generally there's no shame if you decide not to compete or skate on a broken leg or hip. You take the time necessary to allow that injury to heal.

in contrast, with mental health issues, it's taboo and you're expected to "toughen up" or "get through it." I am encouraged that Gracie, Ashley and Gabby are being vocal that it is OK and reasonable to take time to take care of one's self.

 

[Clairecz]

Gracie Gold said it quite well in a recent interview (which isn't up more): Generally there's no shame if you decide not to compete or skate on a broken leg or hip. You take the time necessary to allow that injury to heal.

in contrast, with mental health issues, it's taboo and you're expected to "toughen up" or "get through it." I am encouraged that Gracie, Ashley and Gabby are being vocal that it is OK and reasonable to take time to take care of one's self.

Completely agree. I think that this perception of athletes as always strong and tough plays a role (besides the fact that even among ordinary people a mental health problem is regarded as a much more bigger "issue" than a broken leg).

When an actor or singer speaks about mental health problems you might expect reactions like: "Oh, I didn't know. But s/he is still amazing." or "You know, they are different, these are artists, sensitive souls..." And when an athlete speaks about it, they are often expected to "toughen up"...

 

[Clairecz]

double post

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

*catches up on this thread*

*buries face in pillow to muffle the horrified screeching*

*makes plans to kidnap the Russian men and get them the heck away from there*

Exactly my feelings. No wonder now why despite Russia having so many promising juniors, they have so little success at the senior level and why they are so unstable in competitions. Also why the woman had more results than the men.

 

[Mrs. P]

Completely agree. I think that this perception of athletes as always strong and tough plays a role (besides the fact that even among ordinary people a mental health problem is regarded as a much more bigger "issue" than a broken leg).

When an actor or singer speaks about mental health problems you might expect reactions like: "Oh, I didn't know. But s/he is still amazing." or "You know, they are different, these are artists, sensitive souls..." And when an athlete speaks about it, they are often expected to "toughen up"...

Yes, it's interesting how in art/entertainment -- anguish/anxiety and other mental health issues are often often seen in the lens of being a source of amazing work (and perhaps does provide an outlet for those folks), but yet it doesn't occur to people like, "hey this is a problem." We've lost too far many amazing artistic talents cause of this.

And that's an interesting irony that mental health is a "bigger issue" than a physical injury, yet it lacks the response and care you would get from a physical issue.

 

[moriel]

This is not about countries and coaches, it's about people. We should not forget skaters are people, they are not superheroes, they are not fictional characters, they are people with their own struggles like you and me.

Gabby seems to have gone through a really difficult phase including a break-up and the passing of a dear friend (Denis Ten). I wish her all the best and hope she'll come back from this much stronger.

Skaters are people, but also, they are people who are somewhat well known, both at their homeland and around thw world. So they have a power to change things that some Jane or Joe don't.
So when they talk about sensitive issues, it is something that has impact not only on the sport community, but everywhere else too. Which is a big deal.

 

[moriel]

*catches up on this thread*

*buries face in pillow to muffle the horrified screeching*

*makes plans to kidnap the Russian men and get them the heck away from there*

Do not worry, not how everybody feels.
For instance, if we talk about Kolyada, while many fans were temporarely angry and upset for his performance, and had a minute of grumping "d**n, pick your **** together, man, we could have tried to get the gold here", it was nothing more than what we all grump when our faves suddenly decide to skate on their butts or make popcorn for the whole party.

If anything, it will be more productive if you just kidnap (feel free to send them to some work camp) unprofessional people who shouldnt be commenting FS on TV but for some reason are (TAT, Trankov, I'm talking to you).

 

[Fluture]

why do you always perceive my words wrong? Of course, a man can relax inside the family, at home. But in the outside world, in the moment of testing, he has no right to "vulnerability." Give results, damn it! Get food, protect family, clan, tribe, country.

You know what? Go to your brother and father (if they are near) and ask which point is closer to them - my or yours. I find it very interesting, I hope that the men of the West are still men.

I don't pereceive your words wrongly at all. On the contrary, I get what you're trying to say and that's why it scares me so much. I think this isn't solely a thing "of the East". Sure, your mentality is a bit different in some points - I know that perfectly well myself since my relatives from my mother's side aren't from the West. 7

I have had a lot of talks with my father about this and my brother. I am a bit touchy about this subject as a whole and maybe I should explain why: My whole life my father has been the voice of reason in our family, the calm one who always knew what to do. Yet he never raised my brother and me differently. We were equal in his eyes and I liked that. Why should he treat us differently just because one of us is male and the other female? He taught us to always do our best and not to whine senselessly about things we might be able to change if we put our minds to it. But he also taught us that it's okay if you're weak sometimes, if you fail and are afraid and scared, that the real strength lies in being able to show weakness and accept it and not being ashamed about it. Because there inevitably will come a time when you aren't strong, when you're vulnerable and at your worst and need to rely on other people to help you out of it. When you feel you can't go on anymore, you feel you can't help but give up. And while he always has been the strong one in our family, he was right in the end, there did come a time when he suddenly wasn't anymore. It was hard to cope with this for us but we managed. For one because he is always open-minded, he shared his stories with other people and was never ashamed to tell things honestly, tell how he felt. Not just to us, to everyone. Even when he was at his worst. He told them: "I will try to keep fighting but at the moment I am afraid. I don't know what to do right now. I'm afraid things won't get better. I feel like giving up." And to me, THAT is real strength and something I always struggle with. To be open about my feelings, to tell things with honesty and not hide everything behind a mask of steel.

And that's why your comment really offended me. I admire my father greatly and to even think about him being weak is an insult to me and the values I share. I get that your concept of men is that they can't show vulnerability to anybody but their family but to be honest... this doesn't always work in life. You simply can't always be strong and it's unhealthy to think you need to. Whether it's mental problems, or physical ones or simply things you struggle with and don't know what to do, I think we should all be allowed to express our problems. To my mind, the real strength lies in expressing your feelings even if they aren't always rosy and to work and fight hard for what you want. Girl or boy, man or woman.

 

[Fluture]

Do not worry, not how everybody feels.
For instance, if we talk about Kolyada, while many fans were temporarely angry and upset for his performance, and had a minute of grumping "d**n, pick your **** together, man, we could have tried to get the gold here", it was nothing more than what we all grump when our faves suddenly decide to skate on their butts or make popcorn for the whole party.

If anything, it will be more productive if you just kidnap (feel free to send them to some work camp) unprofessional people who shouldnt be commenting FS on TV but for some reason are (TAT, Trankov, I'm talking to you).

I'm really glad that some of you see it this way. I can't deny that I've had similar feelings. I had wished for both the Russian girls to get a Gold medal and the Team Event kind of prevented that. So, yes, I was annoyed by Mikhael when he bombed his program. But I quickly realised that while it is unfortunate and it would have been better had he bombed any other competition (worlds instead of OG), it can't be helped, that's the way it is and we have to deal with it. It's a Team competition and if one has troubles, it's the others task to lift this person up. They still got silver so it's not like he completely ruined everything for them. He just had a bad day, it's unfortunate and sad but it can happen to anyone. And this extensive criticism on him by people like TAT (this woman ) was just completely uncalled for. I feel bad for him but at least he managed to prove people wrong by winning that Worlds medal. It must have been a relief for him, too.

 

[treblemakerem]

As a fan I just don't understand the need to tear someone down who you are rooting for. If you are a fan you should support them. If a skater has a bad skate you may feel disappointed but the one that feels the worst is always going to be the skater, so why tear them down. I have a feeling like I always want to support gem even when they fail what good is it to be angry at them. I also follow baseball and it's the same. I see fans booing their own team when a guy strikes out. My team was really bad this year and sometimes it was very frustrating but I still felt worse for the players than for myself. I feel like I get to know the baseball players and skaters a little bit through watching them so I don't want to tear them down. I want to tell them it's ok, you'll do better next time. They are real people, so if people are booing them or saying they were a disgrace when they tried their best, that will get to you. It's difficult to be an athlete in the spotlight so I think it's partly the responsibility of fans to support them. Even if it seems like we can't do anything that support can mean a lot.

 

[Klarnet]

Sport fans are probably angriest people in the world, and all athletes, not only skaters have to deal with backlash and rotten tomatoes. I remember at Fifa World Cup some fans were throwing bottles,spitting and swearing towards some player at fault of defeat of his team. Skating fans not yet spitting to the ice, that's some feat already
What I want to say is athletes being in the spotlight and constantly encountering critics have probably some ways developed to deal and cope with it. Critics and hate are just inevitable if you are any kind of famous,even if it's just among group of skating fans, and to take it all to heart is simply dangerous.

Concerning "toxic ideas" on mental health issues in certain societies, that's probably not the case for high-level sports, where anything would do, stigma it or not, to help to win. Sport psychologists worked even in era of Soviet Union, and Yagudin back in the day and Misha Kolyada mentioned addressing and seeking such help. Not sure though if that's common practice nowadays.

Topic also reminded me of reading somewhere, that in some European country one can legitimately take a paid leave at work for up to a year due to depression, don't know if it is true, but sounds like whole other level of attitude to the issue and a little surreal.

 

[charlotte14]

We did not scold Alina (except for the haters, of course) after World. Because she is the child, the girl, was mentally exhausted after the Olympic, and most importantly it was not systematic like Misha.

Yes, that's enough to disgrace the country, don't be a rag, but be a man! And Misha did so. Look at him in K&C after SP on World - assembled, strict, filled with inner confidence and determination. A man came to fight, to defend his honor. This is sport! Well done Misha!

....... ugh.... this sounds so wrong. I don’t know where to start.

 

[Alexz]

You do know that you are sending human beings to these competitions, right? Not robots. You really think skaters (or any athletes) have to be strong all the time, at all competitions or else they dishonor your country?

”You do not have the right to dishonor your country.“ Which means you don‘t have the right to fail, you don‘t have the right to show weakness and be weak sometimes. No offense, but that is unhealthy. It‘s calling for mental health problems. No one can survive a pressure like this forever. And does it make the situation better just because athletes were raised their whole life like this? I think not.

Just wanting to say that this is not a solely cultural thing. Athletes from different countries think they left their country down if they perform poorly once. It’s harsher in countries like Russia with a mentality like this but in genereal... media is harsh everywhere, fans are harsh, people are. I know it‘s like this. I wish it could be changed. Like, instead of kicking someone who‘s already on the ground and tell him he‘s a dishonor, help him get up and say he did poorly here but will do better next time. You don‘t have to praise them or anything. Criticize them but with respect!!

But what I really dislike here are the double standards. The blatant sexism. Sorry. But if women and girls have the right to be weak (as they should have!) so should have men. They are human beings, too! I just don‘t understand this.

nah.. It's not only in Russia. What you speaking about is mostly the nationalistic thing in pretty much every other country on this planet. But it's a more complex than just "nationalism". Many countries have their own "special thing" where ultra-patriotic sport fans are often can be "too sensitive". Like hockey for Russia and Canada. Or soccer/football for England, Spain, France, Italy, Poland, Russia, Sweden, Germany and pretty much all others Europeans. Hmmm... Have you seen European press when some of national teams were under-performing at WC or EC? It's lynching, auto-da-fé and inquisition. It goes so far that even some European countries are nearly trolling and celebrating fails and bad results of other neighbors (in soccer). In press. Almost officially and borderline on government level. There are usual amount of "friendly" trolling after every WC in Europe. Small fun fact: there is a viral video on youtube where young Scots going nuts in some bar in Scotland and celebrating of Enlgland's loss to Croatia in semi. Just few months ago. :noshake: And that's just a small example. Soccer/football players and coaches are under huge press and bad publicity if their national team under-perform. Canadian press routinely crucify their hockey players if they would not get gold at OG or WC. Russians usually having similar expectation from their hockey team, although they are realistic and understand they are currently second after Canada and there are other 4 big teams rapidly closing the gap. It's not the government and nationalism thing, but it's us - fans - we are the ones who have always such high expectation from our favs. We are also the big part of the problem, we demand from our favorite athletes to overachieve without the right to even slightest mistake. We are the problem too - fans. But it's the nature of competition and competitive spirit which is inbuilt in all humans. It's our nature. Without fans and admirers there would be no sport competitions, no tournaments and no big sport events, which we all love so much. This is what makes ratings for TV, money for commercial agencies, sport equipment and sport-wear manufactures and makes income to sport organizations and ...athletes themselves! If there would be no emotions and less competitiveness, sports would have less money and drama. It's a vicious circle. I think it is ok what we have right now. Unless there are too big of extremes in some cases of some sport.. Besides, athletes sometimes need to be more considerate too and abstain in making careless comments and unwary gestures. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Alexz]

*makes plans to kidnap the Russian men and get them the heck away from there*

Be careful what you wish for! :handw:

Beware: Russian men (ok, I'm "racially profiling" here, speaking in general, average statistically, my bad and all that, but..) are usually rough around the edges in a cutest way possible (...and, sadly, sometimes not) and they always tend to be a bit too straight-froward and almost border-lining as impolite, but, heck, you will always know where he is coming from and what he truly thinks (about you) and wants to do (to you).