Osmond to sit out 2018-19 Grand Prix events

[4everchan]

Then why does Skate Canada always invite Hanyu? Notwithstanding the point that he doesn't win but he certainly always could have.

because he was seeded? Medvedeva isn't

 

[SarahSynchro]

It all depends on the competitors she faces in her two events. Medvedeva wasn't at Worlds, and neither was Sakamoto, Mihara or Tsurskaya, all of whom have scored over 210. Gabby has never been a strong early-season skater, and there's nothing wrong with that. A skater's goal should be to peak at the most important events: Nationals and Worlds, and that's what Gabby's done the past two years.

Gabby's best GP season was 2016-2017, the year she finished 3rd at Worlds. She was 4th in both GP events, SA and TDF, and 2nd at 4CC. She was beaten at both SA and 4CC by Mai Mihara in her first season on the GP, and at TDF by Medvedeva, Sotskova and Higuchi in Higuchi's first season on the GP. Incidentally, Sotskova is a strong early-season skater: she has made the GPF in both of her senior appearances, winning silver behind Zagitova last season, but tends to fade in the late season, finishing out of the top 6 at the last two Worlds.

Sigh. Chucky-Boy, why are you always downplaying the successes of certain skaters, because OTHER skaters whom, in your opinion, are “better” and more talented in comparison to those skaters who are actually there, competing? Hypothetical situations such as these are extremely ridiculous, as they really serve no purpose other than arguing for the sake of arguing. You can’t assume certain skaters would automatically be the winners if they were participating in the event, even if they just phoned in their performance, and/or did a lap or two around the ice, followed by a waltz jump and scratch spin,, believing Skater X only got on the podium because of the absence or faltering of the “much better” Skater Y and Skater Z. We’ll never know how the results at the 2018 world championships would have turned out if Alina didn’t fall four times and Evgenia was there competing in top form, injury-free.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm also going, and I'd certainly be interested to see her, but that invitation isn't going to be mailed. Skate Canada's priority will be maximizing their own top skater's chance of winning (assuming there's a realistic one, as there is here), which means not inviting somebody who is almost certain to win when you don't have to.

All I have to say is this is a foundation for unfairness and poor scoring and exactly why ALL skaters should be seeded and placed at events per a mathematic formula per the ISU. Judges too!! The feds should sell the sport and not be looking to openly slant the competitive field of any discipline.. What a mess that this strategy is openly accepted so casually.

I’m not trying to pick on you or your statement which I do agree with under the current rules but...ugh. And I’m not picking on Canada because it happens at most events in various forms.

I’m just so tired of the argument that it’s needed to pull home fans in. Are those the fans we want to cater to? That’s what nationals are for. I understand a host pick or two but the idea of keeping skaters away who could earn GP points shouldn’t be allowed. A fair sport should be way more celebrated than a home victory that was manipulated to maximize results. JGP has a way better system where skaters can be sent to beat home skaters or defend home turf. If we’re going to have fed manipulation let’s at least make a sport of it.

End Rant

 

[4everchan]

All I have to say is this is a foundation for unfairness and poor scoring and exactly why ALL skaters should be seeded and placed at events per a mathematic formula per the ISU. Judges too!! The feds should sell the sport and not be looking to openly slant the competitive field of any discipline.. What a mess that this strategy is openly accepted so casually.

I’m not trying to pick on you or your statement which I do agree with under the current rules but...ugh. And I’m not picking on Canada because it happens at most events in various forms.

I’m just so tired of the argument that it’s needed to pull home fans in. Are those the fans we want to cater to? That’s what nationals are for. I understand a host pick or two but the idea of keeping skaters away who could earn GP points shouldn’t be allowed. A fair sport should be way more celebrated than a home victory that was manipulated to maximize results. JGP has a way better system where skaters can be sent to beat home skaters or defend home turf. If we’re going to have fed manipulation let’s at least make a sport of it.

End Rant

i don't disagree with what you are saying... but the GP is just designed that way.

I think that in the end, most years, the top contenders do make the finals... so all of these manipulations as you propose, cancel each other

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

i don't disagree with what you are saying... but the GP is just designed that way.

I think that in the end, most years, the top contenders do make the finals... so all of these manipulations as you propose, cancel each other

The second sentence might simply be a result of the first sentence and federation manipulation. :shock2:

 

[4everchan]

The second sentence might simply be a result of the first sentence and federation manipulation. :shock2:

well maybe you can open a thread exploring previous years GPF and looking at that specifically... this thread is getting off topic all the time.. people even bash Leanna Caron in it...

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

well maybe you can open a thread exploring previous years GPF and looking at that specifically... this thread is getting off topic all the time.. people even bash Leanna Caron in it...

Starting threads is so last year

Maybe someone will be inspired by my rant and do my dirty work

 

[chuckm]

And how they and she perform, as I said. To wit:

Medvedeva won't be at SCI.

Perhaps.

Gabby beat Sakamoto in the long program of the team event.

And Sakamoto was 6th in the main Olympic event with 209.71 while Gabby was 15th with 172.46.

She beat Mihara at 2017 Worlds and nearly beat her at 2017 Four Continents, and beat her earlier this season in the short program at CoC.

2017 was Mihara's first Senior Worlds---she had a bad SP. But she was 4th in the FS to Gabby's 3rd and finished a respectable 5th overall.
Gabby won the SP at 2017 Four Continents, but Mihara won the FS and the competition with 200.85 to Gabby's 196.78.
Gabby may have won the SP at CoC 2017 but she was 7th in the FS and 6th overall with 196.83. Mihara blew the SP, but was 3rd in the FS and 4th overall with 206.07, behind Radionova, Higuchi and Zagitova.

She beat Tsurskaya in the short program at 2017 Skate America.

Gabby was 3rd in SA SP but 8th in the FS and 6th overall with 189.14. Tsurskaya, who has a growth-related injury, was 8th in the SP but 4th in the FS and 4th overall with 195.56, behind Tennell, Sakamoto and Miyahara; the last three scored 204.1, 210.57 and 214.21 respectively,


In many of the above examples (except Worlds 2017) Gabby did well in the SP but fell short in the FS. She can beat skaters like Sakamoto and Mihara if she can deliver two clean programs, something she has done just once internationally in the past two years, and that was at Worlds 2017. Sakamoto and Mihara are known for consistent delivery of great freeskates with lots of technical content; they were 1-2 at 2018 4CC with 214.21 and 210.57.

 

[yoloaxel]

Medvedeva won't be at SCI.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Medvedeva at SCI in the 16-17 season, where Kaetlyn was also at SCI and definitely had the potential to win it? (She came in 2nd)

This year they have even more reason to invite her: Orser is her coach and Gabby doesn’t have as much of a chance to win as Kaetlyn did anyway

 

[chuckm]

Skate Canada does have to invite two skaters from the 7-13 at Worlds:

Maria Sotskova
Loena Hendrickx
Mirai Nagasu (if she competes in the GP)
Elizabet Tursynbaeva
Mariah Bell
Nicole Schott

Who is available depends on host picks and Skate Canada draw order.

Other skaters with guarantees:
Top 24 SB
Evgenia Medvedeva
Kaori Sakamoto
Mai Mihara
Polina Tsurskaya
Elena Radionova
Stanislavka Konstantinova
Dabin Choi
Marin Honda
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
Daria Panenkova
Yura Matsuda
Mako Yamashita

Top 24 WR not on top 24 SB
Karen Chen
Rika Hongo
Laurine Lecavelier
Nicole Rajicova

 

[Colonel Green]

Perhaps.



And Sakamoto was 6th in the main Olympic event with 209.71 while Gabby was 15th with 172.46.



2017 was Mihara's first Senior Worlds---she had a bad SP. But she was 4th in the FS to Gabby's 3rd and finished a respectable 5th overall.
Gabby won the SP at 2017 Four Continents, but Mihara won the FS and the competition with 200.85 to Gabby's 196.78.
Gabby may have won the SP at CoC 2017 but she was 7th in the FS and 6th overall with 196.83. Mihara blew the SP, but was 3rd in the FS and 4th overall with 206.07, behind Radionova, Higuchi and Zagitova.


Gabby was 3rd in SA SP but 8th in the FS and 6th overall with 189.14. Tsurskaya, who has a growth-related injury, was 8th in the SP but 4th in the FS and 4th overall with 195.56, behind Tennell, Sakamoto and Miyahara; the last three scored 204.1, 210.57 and 214.21 respectively,


In many of the above examples (except Worlds 2017) Gabby did well in the SP but fell short in the FS. She can beat skaters like Sakamoto and Mihara if she can deliver two clean programs, something she has done just once internationally in the past two years, and that was at Worlds 2017. Sakamoto and Mihara are known for consistent delivery of great freeskates with lots of technical content; they were 1-2 at 2018 4CC with 214.21 and 210.57.

It’s a simple point: Gabby can beat the various people you mention, because she has at various points. I have repeatedly acknowledged that they could also win. Nothing cited refutes anything I said.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Medvedeva at SCI in the 16-17 season, where Kaetlyn was also at SCI and definitely had the potential to win it? (She came in 2nd)

Medvedeva was seeded, and the reigning champion. They had to invite her. Kaetlyn, meanwhile, was unseeded, as she didn’t even make the Worlds team the preceding year.

Gabby is one of only two Worlds medalist competitors that the Fed will have in competition in the next Grand Prix, and one of only three Four Continents medalist competitors (and she earned hers in a regular year, unlike Piper/Paul). She’s at worst tied for second in a ranking of the Fed’s most valuable active assets. They will do everything they can on her behalf.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I think to me it just seems unlikely that Gabby would go from never having medaled on the GP, even after her brilliant results at Worlds and 4CC, to qualifying for the final... but I'm happy to be proven wrong

 

[Colonel Green]

I think to me it just seems unlikely that Gabby would go from never having medaled on the GP, even after her brilliant results at Worlds and 4CC, to qualifying for the final... but I'm happy to be proven wrong

Nobody’s saying it’s a sure thing, by any means, but you could as easily say that her lack of GP medals to this point owes a lot to unfortunate circumstances. Last season she was hampered by the aftermath of her surgery during the first half of the year. She only got back into top form for Nationals and the team event, and then was plagued by other stuff going wrong.

If nothing else, she’s got an advantage this year that she didn’t have in the last two seasons, namely, she’ll be at SCI and the Fed will be trying to make the conditions as favourable for her as they can. She had to compete exclusively in unfriendly terrain in 2016 and 2017.

 

[millie]

Kaetlyn and Ravi are keeping busy..They just spent a fantastic weekend at the Burlington Skating Seminar with coaches and kids. “ The kids and coaches were full of enthusiasm and brought a positive energy that was infectious.” She is keeping busy with Ravi and who knows what’s in her future,,You go girl...

 

[chuckm]

If nothing else, she’s got an advantage this year that she didn’t have in the last two seasons, namely, she’ll be at SCI and the Fed will be trying to make the conditions as favourable for her as they can. She had to compete exclusively in unfriendly terrain in 2016 and 2017.

I guess that means Skate Canada will assemble a field as weak as possible to guarantee Gabby a medal. But Skate Canada can't engineer a similar field at Gabby's second event, which could be in unfriendly terrain again---although not in SA (Tennell). I don't see why CoC and TDF should be regarded as 'unfriendly'. I'd think NHK and CoR would be far more formidable as a second event.

 

[Colonel Green]

I guess that means Skate Canada will assemble a field as weak as possible to guarantee Gabby a medal. But Skate Canada can't engineer a similar field at Gabby's second event, which could be in unfriendly terrain again---although not in SA (Tennell). I don't see why CoC and TDF should be regarded as 'unfriendly'. I'd think NHK and CoR would be far more formidable as a second event.

Unfriendly in that they are not actively in her court.

Yes, obviously the second event will be tougher. But that just provides more incentive to maximize chances at SCI. The better she does there, the lower the threshold she needs at her second event. And at worst, she’s finally got a medal and given the home crowd something to cheer for.

 

[randomfan]

Gabby may have won the SP at CoC 2017 but she was 7th in the FS and 6th overall with 196.83. Mihara blew the SP, but was 3rd in the FS and 4th overall with 206.07, behind Radionova, Higuchi and Zagitova.

Mihara didn’t blow her SP. She landed everything and it was only the one UR that kept her behind in a very tight competition (only 4 points off 1st-place Daleman too). She made no major mistakes in both segments, so I don’t think this is a fair example for Daleman in comparison, who was good in one and disappointing in another.

 

[chuckm]

Maybe other host countries are "not actively in Gabby's court", but then why should they be? Skate Canada is not actively in anyone's court unless they are Canadian.

 

[Colonel Green]

Maybe other host countries are "not actively in Gabby's court", but then why should they be? Skate Canada is not actively in anyone's court unless they are Canadian.

No one was suggesting they should be. Doesn’t change that there’s an advantage to competing at home.

 

[ladyjane]

Not wishing to be negative, enter the discourse on judging, but yay! Loena's in!