Plushenko AND Joubert now at Campbells!!

[Mathman]

And Michelle and Sasha will say 'what the heck I'll fly to Japan'. MM I know you are all worked up for this, but I think we have to see exactly what is happening.

Joe, that's just the point I was trying to make on the sly (hoping that Michelle fans and Sasha fans wouldn't notice). Sasha and Michelle certainly have no intention of going to Japan.

But Irina and Evgeni are definitely going both to Japan and to St. Paul. Why would they do this, in an Olympic year when the conventional wisdom says to hunker down, guard your options, don't burn youself out, peak at the right time, don't risk injury, don't weary yourself with jet lag or with too much skating, don't expose yourself to a foreign audience or to foreign judges, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Study long, study wrong. In sports strategy you can outthink yourself. I think the best possible preparation for the Olympics is just to go out there and skate.

We'll see. But I bet at least two of the three -- Carolina, Fumie and Miki -- will be at Campbell's.

You can run, but you can't hide. Sooner or later you have to skate.

MM

 

[antmanb]

Joe, that's just the point I was trying to make on the sly (hoping that Michelle fans and Sasha fans wouldn't notice). Sasha and Michelle certainly have no intention of going to Japan.

But Irina and Evgeni are definitely going both to Japan and to St. Paul. Why would they do this, in an Olympic year when the conventional wisdom says to hunker down, guard your options, don't burn youself out, peak at the right time, don't risk injury, don't weary yourself with jet lag or with too much skating, don't expose yourself to a foreign audience or to foreign judges, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Probably because they, unlike Michelle and Sasha, actually need the money?

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Probably because they, unlike Michelle and Sasha, actually need the money?Ant

I think (aside from the money), there is strategy going on. A skater may want to get as much feedback as possible for a championship. Some skaters can handle work; others not too much is more than enough.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

I think (aside from the money), there is strategy going on. A skater may want to get as much feedback as possible for a championship. Some skaters can handle work; others not too much is more than enough.

Joe

I guess that Plushy has has nothing to loose. He skated for what two years in great pain and still ripped out programs with 8 triples and two quads practically flawlessly everytime. Pain doesn't seem to stop him so if he's trying to rack up some mileage on his operated knees then i think that makes sense.

For Irina, however, i'd be more concerned about her burning herself out early in the season given that for her every day is hit and miss with her illness and something like the two week back to back competitions she's doing could make her ill and knock her out for a couple of months. I guess on that basis though she might be pushnig herself early just to test herself on the basis that if she does get ill then she could skip the grandprix and get back for Europeans then the Olys? Still i wouldn't recommend that as a strategy for her particularly.

Ant

 

[flowjo35]

Does anyone know if Michelle and Sasha were invited to Japan?

 

[antmanb]

Does anyone know if Michelle and Sasha were invited to Japan?

Another good question - since there's much more money to be paid in the US from skatin gperhaps the japanese event thought the north Americans have it pretty good lets get other people over to our event.

And Johnny is practically Russian so that's ok!!!!

Ant--------------------

 

[attyfan]

Based on information gleaned from this board, FSU, MKF and SashaFans, it appears that no one even mentioned Michelle and Sasha as even being invited to the Japanese cheesefest -- and the Japanese cheesefest was on calendar long before Campbell's (in other words, the Japanese invited Slutskaya -- and could have invited one or both Americans -- long before Campbell's was set -- so I don't think that the failure to invite Sasha or Michelle had anything to do with a calender conflict.)

 

[merrywidow]

A little off topic, but on the subject of television coverage, CBC is giving a lot of great coverage to the world track and field championships going on right now. U.S. network TV, zilch.

I've been watching the World T & F championships on Pax cable channel in the USA. I think it's an American cable company, not one from Canada.

 

[Zanzibar]

From Mathman:

QUOTE: "...in an Olympic year when the conventional wisdom says to hunker down, guard your options, don't burn youself out, peak at the right time, don't risk injury, don't weary yourself with jet lag or with too much skating, don't expose yourself to a foreign audience or to foreign judges, yadda, yadda, yadda."

and

"In sports strategy you can outthink yourself. I think the best possible preparation for the Olympics is just to go out there and skate." ENDQUOTE

I couldn't agree more!! Just yesterday I had a skating writer say to me, "ooh - so and so shouldn't take on these early events - he'll peak too early!!!" and frankly, it drives me crazy. This whole 'peaking' thing makes the athletes sound like delicate soufles that must be taken out of the oven at j..u..s..t the right moment or they will collapse.

Yagudin didn't back away from one damn competition the Olympic season - even after Tarasova begged him not to do the Goodwill Games and he stubbornly did them - and did poorly....yet...he learned. He learned he wasn't ready, LOL. Better to learn that early than later on at even bigger events!

Peak/Schmeak. You either win the Olympics because like Yagudin you manage to pull it ALL together - or because (a teensy bit like Hughes here) you have the night of your life AND your biggest rivals simply...don't.

I say get the hell out there and skate - I'm tired of skaters being treated like little fragile glass figurines - ooh, too much jet lag, blah, blah - they are YOUNG - they are in PHENOMENAL shape, this is their JOB!

Damnit - get on that ice and move baby!!!!!!!

 

[curious]

Plushy was the main reason Yags competed in the Goodwill Games

 

[bloozywoozy]

I say get the hell out there and skate - I'm tired of skaters being treated like little fragile glass figurines - ooh, too much jet lag, blah, blah - they are YOUNG - they are in PHENOMENAL shape, this is their JOB!

Damnit - get on that ice and move baby!!!!!!!

I agree! lol I thought it was just me who thought these athletes were becoming a bit too "prima-donna" ish, lol. Competing/skating is their job, they should quit whining and fussing and get out there and just DO it!

Yagudin is the champion he is because he steps up to the plate and delivers no matter WHAT the circumstances are! :agree:

 

[attyfan]

... Yagudin is the champion he is because he steps up to the plate and delivers no matter WHAT the circumstances are! :agree:

That Yagudin (and Lipinski) step up and deliver no matter what explains more than the reason why they both have the OGM; it also explains why they both had to have major hip surgery. IMO, it is one thing for skaters to choose the risks in the hopes of winning the OGM; it is another thing to criticize or condemn a skater who chooses to avoid the surgery -- even if that means giving up the OGM.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

1. Yagudin and Lipinsky. He was born with this problem. He knew the dangers before hand. Lipinsky had a one track mind. Lots of motivation and that one trick did her in. Were the hip surgeries worth it for them? Anyone remember all those former Oly Champs. They are hardly mentioned in this Forum, and the the general public has long since not mentioned them.

2. Yagudin stepping up to the plate was clearly motivated that year to beat Mishin more than Evgeni. Motivation is a powerful stimulus in Sports. (Check out that amateur US Hockey team against the truly powerhouse the Russians had). The question would be, if Yagudin didn't win the Olys, would he have wanted Evgeni to win it? It has been said that if an athlete doesn't win he does not want one of his countryman to win.

3. Zanzibar - ITA. Let them get on with it. That's what Sports are all about. Why do these skaters want a pussyfooting sport?

Joe

 

[RIskatingfan]

That Yagudin (and Lipinski) step up and deliver no matter what explains more than the reason why they both have the OGM; it also explains why they both had to have major hip surgery. IMO, it is one thing for skaters to choose the risks in the hopes of winning the OGM; it is another thing to criticize or condemn a skater who chooses to avoid the surgery -- even if that means giving up the OGM.

I don't understand this reasoning. How many surgeries have Lambiel and Abt had just on their count? And how many OGMs, Worlds or other titles have they won? How many skaters have left the sport or haven't gotten far because of injuries? I think it's unrealistic to claim the reason some skaters get injured is because they did what it took to win. I don't see Kulik injured. Yamaguchi was doing almost all triples until she got pregnant. Yes, you'll find many champions suffering from injuries. But you'll certainly find so many skaters who never won anything battling serious injuries too. They just don't get the same attention.

It seems Tara Lipinski's injury was result of overtraining. AFAIK, though, Alexei Yagudin had a congenital problem that was aggravatted by the sports career. He probably didn't know about it until the problem got serious (from what I gathered from articles, it first started bothering him in the Olympic season). And by the time he knew what was going on it's not like he could give up or hang up his skates. Or maybe he could. I suppose I could also go to Turin next season. Who cares I couldn't afford it, I could always "borrow" some money from my company, couldn't I?

And Zanzibar, I too am positively sick (and have been for for quite awhile) of skaters being treated like porcelain dolls by the fans. They're athletes for goodness sake, training and competing is what they do. For the most part, they're tremendously tough people, physically and mentally. Injury is an inherent risk, everybody knows it. Why has it suddenly become such an issue now?

 

[attyfan]

I don't understand this reasoning. How many surgeries have Lambiel and Abt had just on their count? And how many OGMs, Worlds or other titles have they won? How many skaters have left the sport or haven't gotten far because of injuries? I think it's unrealistic to claim the reason some skaters get injured is because they did what it took to win. I don't see Kulik injured. Yamaguchi was doing almost all triples until she got pregnant. Yes, you'll find many champions suffering from injuries. But you'll certainly find so many skaters who never won anything battling serious injuries too. They just don't get the same attention ...

And Zanzibar, I too am positively sick (and have been for for quite awhile) of skaters being treated like porcelain dolls by the fans. They're athletes for goodness sake, training and competing is what they do. For the most part, they're tremendously tough people, physically and mentally. Injury is an inherent risk, everybody knows it. Why has it suddenly become such an issue now?

My reasoning was simply that skaters should be able to make choices that will reduce the risk of injury. If they want to do what Lipinski did (increasing the risk for a competitive advantage), they are free to do so -- and reap the rewards, but a skater who makes a different choice should also be free to do so, with no greater penalty than the competitive disadvantage. I also think that it is currently an issue becasue so many have been getting injured at the same time -- at Worlds, you had Zhao Hungbo, Takeshi Honda and Plushy all having to withdraw (when Worlds were in his home country for the first time in over a century, etc)

 

[RIskatingfan]

My reasoning was simply that skaters should be able to make choices that will reduce the risk of injury. If they want to do what Lipinski did (increasing the risk for a competitive advantage), they are free to do so -- and reap the rewards, but a skater who makes a different choice should also be free to do so, with no greater penalty than the competitive disadvantage.

Well, I think the skaters ARE free to choose how much they want to push themselves LOL so I don't get your point. If by that you mean that they shouldn't be criticized, everyone has different ideas about strategies and hopes or expectations for what the skaters can do. It generates discussion. So people discuss. And it includes applause and criticism. I think we all know that it's up to the skaters to make the decisions

It also seems to me you're assuming some skaters don't care if they get injured opposed to others who do... I'm sure all skaters have limits and make choices about how much to push themselves, even if they aren't always bringing that up. I'm sure that in their training they evaluate how much is worth the risk to train a certain element, for example. Or evaluate how much is worth the risk to actually go for it in competition. Everyone has limits and I'm sure everyone tries to stay away from injuries. I certainly don't have anything against that! But lately, avoid injury seems to justify EVERYTHING. In a way, it has become overrated.

Injuries suck big time. But one has to question what sort of attitude is the one of an athlete who wants to remain competitive but whose main concern in their job is simply not to get injured. Mind you, I doubt the athletes act like this. I just find these excuses the fans make quite puzzling.

 

[attyfan]

My point is that skaters who cut back to prevent injury are not necessarily "prima donnas", but trying to spare themselves what Plushy went though or avoiding Zhao's fate. Those of us who only watch skating do so because we find it entertaining, and in my opinion, skaters should not who are not overworking themselves the way Plushy did should not be described as "lazy" or not doing their job, as though the skaters have nothing better to do but to risk themselves for my entertainment. My entertainment isn't worth it.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Does cutting back prevent injuries

I'm not sure if that's an answerable question. I see injuries as a result of a mistaken technical move - a poor take off; a poor landing; correcting an error while in the air, a slide into a camel spin, catching an edge while doing footwork, etc., etc.

These could be called accidents and they can happen at any time. Cutting back on competitions does not appear to me to be the sure cure for injuries. Skating in competitions is part and parcel of becoming a first rate skater. Avoiding some competition may be considered poor 'strategy' but not for preventing injuries. JMO I would think there are more injuries in practice then in competitions.

Joe

 

[slutskayafan21]

I agree with Joesitz. I believe most injuries were initiated or caused by something in practice, even if the official triggering of the injury is not known to be in a practice, all the time.

 

[Eeyora]

And Johnny is practically Russian so that's ok!!!!

Ant--------------------

LOL

I would put Sasha in that category as well. She3 really appreciates Russian culture and her Ukrainian heritage.