Plushenko AND Joubert now at Campbells!!

[Vash01]

I guess that Plushy has has nothing to loose. He skated for what two years in great pain and still ripped out programs with 8 triples and two quads practically flawlessly everytime. Pain doesn't seem to stop him so if he's trying to rack up some mileage on his operated knees then i think that makes sense.

For Irina, however, i'd be more concerned about her burning herself out early in the season given that for her every day is hit and miss with her illness and something like the two week back to back competitions she's doing could make her ill and knock her out for a couple of months. I guess on that basis though she might be pushnig herself early just to test herself on the basis that if she does get ill then she could skip the grandprix and get back for Europeans then the Olys? Still i wouldn't recommend that as a strategy for her particularly.

Ant

I too am concerned about Irina burning herself out. I don't think she can skip the GP series, based on the way the ISU reacted to Plushenko's absence.

Plushy does not have to go to GP this year, so for him it is a good strategy to test his program in a cheesefest. However, if he still has a knee injury that has not healed completely, it may not be wise for him to skate back to back international competitions in such far away places (Japan to US is a LONG jump!)

Vash

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Plushy does not have to go to GP this year, so for him it is a good strategy to test his program in a cheesefest. However, if he still has a knee injury that has not healed completely, it may not be wise for him to skate back to back international competitions in such far away places (Japan to US is a LONG jump!)Vash

Vash - I think a 2.5 minute program one day and a 4 minute program the next should not be taxing The cheesefest is still a 4 minute program, and if he goes to Japan first and then to America soon after with return trips to Russia in beetween..... that's a lot of travelling which fans were mentioning last year.

BTW, when he is at home in Russia does he practice every day? and how many hours does he practice? What about the quads and 3.5s? They need practice!!
These a not taxing on the knees?

I think it more than likely that he needs some money and the Japan and US cheesefests will be a good source for that. I don't blame him. IMHO, I believe Evgeni is quite satisfied with his skating and missing one GP won't do him in since I think he is scheduled for COR. And going to the GPF won't be necessary because of the Cheesefest in Japan and meeting up with Johnny at the US cheesefest will be more than enough. He'll meet up with Brian and Stephane at the Euros.

I'm not worried about him. Maybe Irina but she is so motivated I don't think there will be health worries.

Joe

 

[screech]

What about the quads and 3.5s? They need practice!!
These a not taxing on the knees?

They are extremely taxing! In an interview in a paper in Canada today, Jeff Buttle said that from overworking the quad this summer, he injured his left ankle and had to take 2 weeks off to let it heal, and couldn't attempt any salchows or toes for a bit (mind you,he did say that it gave him time and opportunity to improve on other aspects, like adding a triple loop as the 2nd jump in combinations rather than a toe on every jump but the triple axel, and creating more difficult entries into jumps, and working on his basic skating skills...) but still. It does happen! And other than the food poisoning a year and a half ago, Jeff seems to be the one skater who is never sick or injured! (knock on wood).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Exactly screech - Jeff knows and so do all the skaters. Practice is tough on the knees especially big jumps. If you don't practice them, you'll lose them and maybe never get one.

There are skating shows where one doesn't have to worry about those things. But competition is not a skating show. It's a sport!

Joe

 

[attyfan]

While I agree that the injuries may well be due to practice, I think it is noteworthy that many of the skaters who were injured last year were also the ones doing the heaviest competition loads -- Plushy has been doing 3 GPs (instead of only two) and cheesefests for years, plus continental championships, and Nats and Worlds -- and Shen and Zhao would carry a similar load.

IMO, the ISU should do a study to find out the reason why --maybe, it is the combination of competition and jet lag, maybe scheduling is irrelevant -- so, if warranted, changes can be implemented. After all, I don't think Worlds was improved by the withdrawals, and, I don't think that the Oly Pairs event will be exciting if Shen and Zhao will be unable to compete at their usual level.

 

[Mathman]

Well, it seems reasonable to me that if you compete a lot then you are also practicing with greater intensity most of the time. If you only do two or three competitions a year you can pace your practices to build up to the events.

But if you compete every couple of weeks, you have to push yourself in practice all the time.

Mathman

 

[antmanb]

Injuries suck big time. But one has to question what sort of attitude is the one of an athlete who wants to remain competitive but whose main concern in their job is simply not to get injured. Mind you, I doubt the athletes act like this. I just find these excuses the fans make quite puzzling.

Well if an athlete gets injured then they are no longer competitive - see Plushy and Zhao for the examples. If you are not injured but can compete then you are certainly more competitive then the guy who hjad to sit at hom because of the ruptured anchilles tendon or blown knee.

I would think the main concern of an athlete is to remain competitive at least 50% of which is injury prevention. Pick up any book about conditioning in sports (the Poe book specifically on skating is worth a read) and you'll see that at least 50 % of the trining is injury prevention - think of all the stretching and warming up and down, skating in 45 min sessions with breaks of other things in between not only to maintain motivation, id you only skate for 45 mins then you can truly go for it for 45 mins and then take a break, stretch not get too tired to carry on practising something else, if you 've done a lots of explosive jumping then trying spinning/field moves and don't practise the jumps again til later on. The most important biproduct of that is that by resting often you are prventing injury from repeting either the same thing over and over or similar movement over and over.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Does cutting back prevent injuries

I'm not sure if that's an answerable question. I see injuries as a result of a mistaken technical move - a poor take off; a poor landing; correcting an error while in the air, a slide into a camel spin, catching an edge while doing footwork, etc., etc.

These could be called accidents and they can happen at any time. Cutting back on competitions does not appear to me to be the sure cure for injuries. Skating in competitions is part and parcel of becoming a first rate skater. Avoiding some competition may be considered poor 'strategy' but not for preventing injuries. JMO I would think there are more injuries in practice then in competitions.

Joe

But the point isn't that people avoid competing because they're more likely to get injured AT the competition, rather, because the intensity of training required to get up to the competitive standard over and over again for lots of competitons in one season and the disruption caused to your training schedule are likely to cause more injuries. Especailly is you are not well rested, and if you are flying a long way for a competition and then flying back for another one you will be more tired and more likely to injure yourself.

As i've opsted before at competitions you get far less practice time then you ever do at home so skating in a competition abroad is like taking a week out of your training schedule. Early on the season if the skaters aren't doing their usual X hours a day of training they're more likely to miss jumps than when they're training full out for them, especially if they've noly just gotten their jumps back after the summer.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

LOL

I would put Sasha in that category as well. She3 really appreciates Russian culture and her Ukrainian heritage.

That's true i forgot about that - although i get the impression the whole "russian" thing has been toned down by her since her split with TT.

Maybe its just a TT thing - she bring it out in her students!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I'm not worried about him. Maybe Irina but she is so motivated I don't think there will be health worries.

Joe

Unfortunately though motivation isn't a cure to the illness she has, if she takes a turn for the worst it doesn't matter how motivated she is she'll be unable to compete. Still she doesn't strike me as the sort of person who would ignore sound advice about her health . If she is planning a hard going season then it must be because she's got the go ahead from her doctors.

Ant

 

[RIskatingfan]

Well if an athlete gets injured then they are no longer competitive - see Plushy and Zhao for the examples. If you are not injured but can compete then you are certainly more competitive then the guy who hjad to sit at hom because of the ruptured anchilles tendon or blown knee.

That's not necessarily true, as we've seen plenty of times injured athletes still being very competitive and even winning events. Plushenko has been battling different injuries for a few years but he very rarely loses an event or portion of an events he enters. Xue Shen had a foot injury at Worlds 2003, she was skating on a numb foot and their FP was the performance of their life, with which they won the title. Yagudin's situation at Worlds 2001 was very similar to hers and his Revolution Etude SP was also one of the performances of his life in the opinion of many. He didn't win, but he was second only to Plushenko who had a fabulous event and overall season. Elvis Stojko was also competitive enough to win a silver medal in Nagano in 1998.

But I agree with the rest of your post and that was my point as well, that all athletes try to prevent injuries.

 

[euterpe]

I think Irina's doctors would probably prefer that she not compete at all, but Irina is very strongminded and this is what she wants to do. But there are problems. First of all, her illness affects her breathing, and the cold rinks where she practices and performs are not a desirable environment for her.

Last season, the doctors were trying to wean Irina off the prednisone, because the side effects of the medication are unpleasant (weight gain, fatique) and affect her performance. Irina skated on lowered doses during the Grand Prix, but after the GPF, she began to feel ill, and the doctors had to put her back on full dosage. Her performances at Russian Nationals and Europeans weren't nearly as good as her GP performances partly because of the recurring illness and partly because of the return to heavy medication.

She was better at Worlds, but there is no way of knowing how her health will hold up during the Olympic season. And she is starting off the season with long travel and performances in two cheesefests before even beginning in the GP. Irina is very determined, but that alone puts added stress on her.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Plushenko has been battling different injuries for a few years but he very rarely loses an event or portion of an events he enters.

Sadly, his cumulative injuries, and those he sustained to compensate for his other injuries -- back for knee, for example, which he himself spoke about in an interview -- have hit in the year before and leading up to an Olympic year, causing him to lose his World title.

Xue Shen had a foot injury at Worlds 2003, she was skating on a numb foot and their FP was the performance of their life, with which they won the title. Yagudin's situation at Worlds 2001 was very similar to hers and his Revolution Etude SP was also one of the performances of his life in the opinion of many. He didn't win, but he was second only to Plushenko who had a fabulous event and overall season. Elvis Stojko was also competitive enough to win a silver medal in Nagano in 1998.

It's not unusual for an athlete to pull out all of the stops for "the" event of the year, especially when it's at the end of a season. I can't think of similar example for GP.

 

[antmanb]

That's not necessarily true, as we've seen plenty of times injured athletes still being very competitive and even winning events. Plushenko has been battling different injuries for a few years but he very rarely loses an event or portion of an events he enters. Xue Shen had a foot injury at Worlds 2003, she was skating on a numb foot and their FP was the performance of their life, with which they won the title. Yagudin's situation at Worlds 2001 was very similar to hers and his Revolution Etude SP was also one of the performances of his life in the opinion of many. He didn't win, but he was second only to Plushenko who had a fabulous event and overall season. Elvis Stojko was also competitive enough to win a silver medal in Nagano in 1998.

But I agree with the rest of your post and that was my point as well, that all athletes try to prevent injuries.

True enough, i only mention Plushy because of 2005 Worlds and Zhao because personally i don't see how he will be even vaguely competitive for the 2006 Olympics with that injury - look at Bonaly in 1998.

Ant

 

[slutskayafan21]

After all, I don't think Worlds was improved by the withdrawals, and, I don't think that the Oly Pairs event will be exciting if Shen and Zhao will be unable to compete at their usual level.

If Shen/Zhou are not in reasonable health by the Olympics next year, Totmianina/
Marinin will only have to show up at centre ice to win the gold medal IMO.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I really think this injury topic is coming off the wall. Of course, it a skater has an injury he has to take care of it. If he doesn't, it means the injury is not interfering with his plans. He goes forth, so to speak.

Plush and Mischin are not stupid. They know what's going on and his injury (knee) is constantly being hyped by the fans, imo, for years and many golds later. duh. His hernia has been taken care of like so many men before him.

Plush is the best competitor going into Torino, and he is highly motivated for obvious reasons.

What other injuries has he had that other skaters have not had? I guarantee that every skater has pain during practice every day of his training. Constant training does not alleviate the pain and not doing GPs cures the pain. A skater needs to rest occasionally. No one wants to compete under pain, but most do.

Irina's situation is not injury but health issues. We don't know how she is doing and I am sure we all care. With no news, I am not reading into it as preventing her from appearing at the Olys.

Joe