Question about music choices in Figure Skating

[MUALover]

I have a question regarding figure skating music. I never understood why certain music choices are used over and over again in figure skating but music of very famous composers are not. For example, overused music includes:

- any of Tchaikovsky's ballets
- Carmen
- Puccini's 4 operas: La Boheme, Tosca, Madame Butterfly, Turandot
- Vivaldi's 4 seasons
- Phantom of the Opera
- Romeo and Juliet (from the 1960s movie I believe)
- Firebird
- Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto
- Scheherazade

But Tchaikovsky also wrote piano concertos. Verdi is considered to be the greatest Italian opera composer - how come nobody skates to La Triviata, or Aida, Don Carlos, etc? What about lesser known operas like Lucia Di Lammermoor (Queen Victoria's favourite opera?) Nobody uses Rachmaninoff's other piano concertos? Nobody dances to ballets like Esmeralda or La Sylphide?

I'm tired of hearing the same warhorses at all the competitions.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I have a question regarding figure skating music. I never understood why certain music choices are used over and over again in figure skating but music of very famous composers are not. For example, overused music includes:

- any of Tchaikovsky's ballets
- Carmen
- Puccini's 4 operas: La Boheme, Tosca, Madame Butterfly, Turandot
- Vivaldi's 4 seasons
- Phantom of the Opera
- Romeo and Juliet (from the 1960s movie I believe)
- Firebird
- Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto
- Scheherazade

But Tchaikovsky also wrote piano concertos. Verdi is considered to be the greatest Italian opera composer - how come nobody skates to La Triviata, or Aida, Don Carlos, etc? What about lesser known operas like Lucia Di Lammermoor (Queen Victoria's favourite opera?) Nobody uses Rachmaninoff's other piano concertos? Nobody dances to ballets like Esmeralda or La Sylphide?

I'm tired of hearing the same warhorses at all the competitions.

First of all, yeah, these are all super overused. When it comes to choosing music, I think many skaters select a very familiar piece. Both the audience and the skater likely grew up watching programs choreographed to the above pieces, and either want to skate to them or wants to appeal to the judges/crowd's sense of nostalgia. Now, when it comes to your opera ideas, it's not the most popular music choice nowadays, and typically an opera will only be skated to for the above reasons, which is why you won't hear much Aida. About the other concertos and ballets though, I don't know why they aren't used in place of the above overused songs. Heaven forbid the choreographers have to make a new program!
But I swear, if I have to hear ANOTHER Romeo and Juliet program, I might just go deaf.

 

[4everchan]

Well, I get what you mean... I am a musician, so I am sensitive to music choices... A lot more Rachmaninoff has been used than what you listed but it's true that the 2nd concerto is very popular. I think coaches and choreographers do their jobs relatively well here... they did pick music that works very well with skating... music that can easily bring emotions forward or create stories, images and/or themes... like Firebird or Romeo and Juliet or even the 4 seasons... everyone can relate to love or nature.

I agree though, that there is SO MUCH music available and only a tiny fraction of it used... however, skaters, coaches and choreographers do not have a mission to promote classical music exclusively... so when they want something new, they often go for something more recent... or very unusual. For instance, let's say that a skater was thinking about skating to a piano Concerto, but doesn't want to skate on Rach 2... (or Paganini Variations) why would they go through all of Rachmaninoff to find something suitable for them, why would they do research? They simply go and pick something like Muse or film music and get similar results.

If choreographers and coaches wanted to dig down in the classical repertoire, they could easily reach out to musicians (like myself) and get a lot of ideas... but that's not happening that often... in terms of picking music from the great masters... they prefer looking for something that seems newer...

Also, I have to say that I personally dislike the cutting and pasting done in many programs... it rarely works... Rachmaninoff concertos are about 30 minutes long... and they are cut to fit in 4 minutes... which is rarely done very well... so as far as I am concerned, I have given up in the hope of having programs with wonderful music coming from the classical repertoire... when it happens, i am happy.. .but when i want to listen to great music, I do,... and when i want to listen to figure skating... i watch figure skating ... in other words, those two worlds for me are mostly separated...

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I understand what you mean by the warhorses, but many of the ones you asked about have been used. Just not overused.

 

[MGstyle]

This is an entirely amateurish observation, probably a professional choreographer needs to answer for this to be clear, but I do believe there are certain pieces of music that are particularly suited for skating programs, that synchronize well to the skating movement - and many of the warhorse music, I believe, fall into this category.
On the other hand, I also believe, there are lots of amazing music, beautiful music, catchy music etc., but too difficult to weld into a skating program.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

This is an entirely amateurish observation, probably a professional choreographer needs to answer for this to be clear, but I do believe there are certain pieces of music that are particularly suited for skating programs, that synchronize well to the skating movement - and many of the warhorse music, I believe, fall into this category.
On the other hand, I also believe, there are lots of amazing music, beautiful music, catchy music etc., but too difficult to weld into a skating program.

I'm a professional, and I answered. There are pieces that work and don't some not at all, some depending on skater.

 

[TontoK]

I wonder if part of the reason is that audiences are more likely to have heard and become invested if programs use music they are familiar with...

But once someone breaks the ice with a successful program, more skaters tend to use the music.

For example, I don't recall anyone skating to Bolero before T&D... and the year after Jason did the Prince short program, I know at least one other skater used the same music.

Of course, sometimes that's not the case. Ryan Bradley raised the roof with Dueling Banjos at US Nationals, but I don't recall it being tried by anyone else. It would take quite the personality to pull that off.

 

[bouncy]

I think the classical warhorses you listed are somewhat overused but not as bad considering we have tons of Muse and Billie Eillish programs these days.
Btw, I wonder if anyone has ever tried Schönberg.

 

[flanker]

Verdi is considered to be the greatest Italian opera composer - how come nobody skates to La Triviata, or Aida, Don Carlos, etc?

Actually Artur Danielian skated to the selection of Verdi's operas last two seasons.

 

[ladyjane]

There are times when you get pleasantly surprised, like when Aljona and Bruno used La Terre vue du Ciel by Armand Amar, which I think was the first time that music was used in a Figure Skating programme. It is however so fresh in my memory, that when other skaters now use it (and last year a Dance Couple did, this year one of the Italian ladies) I can't help but feel let down. Perhaps like with Bolero, there should be a bit more of a time lapse for other skaters to start using it.

And didn't Patrick Chan once skate to a piece by Eric Radford? That was new.

Sometimes skaters use less well known pieces for exhibitions. And though I would like to see a skating interpretation of the madness scene in Lucia di Lammermoor, I am not so sure it would work in a Free Skate, let alone wearing a (fake) blooded dress as costume. But maybe in an exhibition?

Puccini of course wrote more operas than the four war horses often used in skating, my personal favourite would be Suor Angelica, but I don't think it is particularly fitted to use in Figure Skating. But perhaps there would be a woman able to pull it off...

So yes, I get your point about the war horses, but I also understand why they are often chosen (and overused) for the reasons quite a few posters have mentioned above.

 

[MGstyle]

I think the classical warhorses you listed are somewhat overused but not as bad considering we have tons of Muse and Billie Eillish programs these days.
Btw, I wonder if anyone has ever tried Schönberg.

The two worsts - Queen and Michael Jackson (and this is exactly the sort of trend I was afraid of when they started allowing vocals )

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

I think the classical warhorses you listed are somewhat overused but not as bad considering we have tons of Muse and Billie Eillish programs these days.
Btw, I wonder if anyone has ever tried Schönberg.

About Schönberg, your comment reminds me a short story by Woody Allen where a producer wants to get support from the narrator for a project of a Viennese musical with Schönberg music all along...

 

[4everchan]

I think the classical warhorses you listed are somewhat overused but not as bad considering we have tons of Muse and Billie Eillish programs these days.
Btw, I wonder if anyone has ever tried Schönberg.

Yup... Jeffrey Buttle in his Tribute to Glenn Gould program uses one of Schoenberg 6 small piano pieces in his LP. And some of Schoenberg's music is very appropriate for skating... so who knows (like Verklärte Nacht)

 

[4everchan]

Here is jeff's https://youtu.be/vLFa8-Qf25Q

ETA : do not listen to the commentators when they speak about the music.. they know absolutely nothing
ETA2 : this is not Jeff's best performance to the program.. quite early in the year.. but i had no time to go through them all...to pick the best one

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I think the classical warhorses you listed are somewhat overused but not as bad considering we have tons of Muse and Billie Eillish programs these days.
Btw, I wonder if anyone has ever tried Schönberg.

Jeff Buttle, first LP of the 2005-06 season (Glenn Gould tribute). A bizarre medley of Wagner, Bach, Scriabin and (wait for it) Schönberg.

Jeff Buttle GG Tribute TEB 05 06

Jeff Buttle's brilliant Glenn Gould Tribute - why did he go back to S&D - blah.

www.youtube.com

No idea what Schönberg was doing in a Glen Gould tribute programme, but that is a nice Ina Bauer...

 

[4everchan]

Jeff Buttle, first LP of the 2005-06 season (Glenn Gould tribute). A bizarre medley of Wagner, Bach, Scriabin and (wait for it) Schönberg.

Jeff Buttle GG Tribute TEB 05 06

Jeff Buttle's brilliant Glenn Gould Tribute - why did he go back to S&D - blah.

www.youtube.com

No idea what Schönberg was doing in a Glen Gould tribute programme, but that is a nice Ina Bauer...

hehe i had beaten you to it... and since you are wondering : glenn gould is well-known for his bach interpretation... you can hear some of it in the LP of course... but he liked and performed other kinds of music, including Wagner which we can hear in an orchestral version (from Tristan and Iseut) and Schoenberg. Actually, Gould recorded all Schoenberg's solo piano works.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Never knew Jeff's programme was so famous Or maybe just well-known to classical musicians who are skating fans...

It would be nice to have more flute repertoire music (Poulenc or Taktakishvili, anyone?) Still, I guess it probably won't have nostalgic appeal for many people besides me

 

[TallyT]

Warhorses, like cliches, are warhorses for a reason. People like them. When you take into account that
- the skaters are very young, most are not probably great classical music fans anyway and there's no reason why they should be, so they don't know a lot of it
- the warhorse music is also very popular in film/TV/ads etc so they are the pieces they are more likely to (if only vaguely) recognise and connect to,
- they know they are in a sport with highly conservative TPTBs (there's a reason why so little non-Western music of any stripe gets picked up, and it ain't a pretty one)
- their team has to cut whatever piece they choose with often dubious results and yes Gleikhengauz I'm wincing in your direction, to fit both time constraints at the tech that has to be fitted into the program

It's not surprising that pieces which have proven successful for one or more skaters tend to get repeated by others, and even the 'popular' music that we hear tends a lot of the time to be conservative and reused. I mean, I have a list of scores - film, TV, game, even epic trailer - that I would adore to see skaters go for (some fans make great use of them for fan videos) but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Warhorses, like cliches, are warhorses for a reason. People like them. When you take into account that
- the skaters are very young, most are not probably great classical music fans anyway and there's no reason why they should be, so they don't know a lot of it
- the warhorse music is also very popular in film/TV/ads etc so they are the pieces they are more likely to (if only vaguely) recognise and connect to,
- they know they are in a sport with highly conservative TPTBs (there's a reason why so little non-Western music of any stripe gets picked up, and it ain't a pretty one)
- their team has to cut whatever piece they choose with often dubious results and yes Gleikhengauz I'm wincing in your direction, to fit both time constraints at the tech that has to be fitted into the program

It's not surprising that pieces which have proven successful for one or more skaters tend to get repeated by others, and even the 'popular' music that we hear tends a lot of the time to be conservative and reused. I mean, I have a list of scores - film, TV, game, even epic trailer - that I would adore to see skaters go for (some fans make great use of them for fan videos) but I'm not holding my breath.

Actually, skaters despite age when coming up the ranks actually know more classical music than others their age and many have learned alot about and appreciate classical music at a younger age and that tends to stay with them the rest of their lives (myself for example). Had it not been for growing up as a figure skater I wouldn't have had that exposure and appreciation.
Also, as far as non-Western music, there's actually more than you know/think being used in the sport.

And many skaters have professional music editors cut their music, think Gadbois for example, and that's why their cuts are usually better than say a lower level coach or inexperienced choreographer doing the music cuts. For example, the person you mentioned, they aren't a professional with an ear for where the music needs to be, or can be cut. And it sounds horrible, many of the Russian ice dance teams tend to have this problem, there are others, I just can't think who right now but it makes me wince every single time.

 

[bouncy]

Jeff Buttle, first LP of the 2005-06 season (Glenn Gould tribute). A bizarre medley of Wagner, Bach, Scriabin and (wait for it) Schönberg.

Jeff Buttle GG Tribute TEB 05 06

Jeff Buttle's brilliant Glenn Gould Tribute - why did he go back to S&D - blah.

www.youtube.com

No idea what Schönberg was doing in a Glen Gould tribute programme, but that is a nice Ina Bauer...

Yup... Jeffrey Buttle in his Tribute to Glenn Gould program uses one of Schoenberg 6 small piano pieces in his LP. And some of Schoenberg's music is very appropriate for skating... so who knows (like Verklärte Nacht)

Thank you both for recommending Jeff's program!
I originally thought it would probably work if you mix some Chopin and early Scriabin but a Wagner-Bach-Scriabin-Schönberg medley would never click for me. But it turned out not bad at all with Jeff's interpretation. I think it's probably 1) the skating diverts my attention from the music edit; 2) Glenn Gould's calm interpretation to some extent unifies the style.
I wonder if the theme and/or music was picked by David Wilson as many of Jeff's programs.