Rescoring of 2010 Olympics

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah, I'm noticing some GOE oddities on spins too. Kolyadafan, do you or anyone have a link to the ISU Scale of Values (including GOE) which you've used to calculate all this? The formulas in the original Excel seem to be different from the scoring on the PDF.

No rush though on any of this though!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The scoring system is an issue, but so are the GOE's behind handed out. Too many judges are much too generous. Seeing rows of +2's for many of Lysacek's elements (and some +3's, including his...merely adequate 3Flip+2Toe+2Loop combo?) is rather sickening.
.

Let's please try to be polite about how we describe the scores that have been given out, particularly because some posters were worried about backlash to the way they scored. There are certainly scores of yours that I disagree with, and you have a few GOE/PCS outliers yourself... but we are all entitled to our opinions here, so let's discuss without getting nasty.

Those jumps that have near +2's across the board were pretty cleanly done. They already check off 3 bullets of good flow/effortless/good extension. If the judge thought it had the height/matched the musical structure, or had good height/distance then yeah a +2 isn't out of the realm of reason.

Your scores indicate you definitely were not a fan of Lysacek, so it would be interesting to see what happens should the highs and lows be incorporated. Nobody's yet to come for you for being an outlier in a couple places.

 

[Blades of Passion]

People scored how they scored and other people feel how they feel about the issue. It's normal, everyone can explain their reasoning and have their reaction, and I didn't name anyone. Everyone knew their scores would be displayed and this isn't Kindergarten.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

People scored how they scored and other people feel how they feel about the issue. It's normal, everyone can explain their reasoning and have their reaction, and I didn't name anyone. Everyone knew their scores would be displayed and this isn't Kindergarten.

Okay, I was just saying to be cognizant and considerate but perhaps that is asking too much of certain people. Regardless.. you do you, boo.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Multiple posters expressed some of their own dismay about the result, and confusion. I provided a reason for why the result come out as it did.

Now that the scores are in, the most interesting part of the thread can happen - people discussing why they give the scores they did, and any observer being able to share their thoughts about it. Dancing around the issue and just using empty catchphrases like "outlier" doesn't help anything. You should go ahead and address any of my marks you are interested in talking about!

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Yeah, I'm noticing some GOE oddities on spins too. Kolyadafan, do you or anyone have a link to the ISU Scale of Values (including GOE) which you've used to calculate all this? The formulas in the original Excel seem to be different from the scoring on the PDF.

No rush though on any of this though!

The scoring system is an issue, but so are the GOE's behind handed out. Too many judges are much too generous. Seeing rows of +2's for many of Lysacek's elements (and some +3's, including his...merely adequate 3Flip+2Toe+2Loop combo?) is rather sickening.

I've just seen there's a big mistake with how the GOE's were calculated on the sheet though: People are getting too many points for their Spins and Level 3 footwork than they are supposed to under this scoring system. The factor is supposed to be 0.5 point per +1 GOE, but all of these elements are listed as a way higher GOE score than the actual amount assigned by the judges. That will have to be adjusted.



Oh this silly argument again.

I saw him several times in person, there was no difference, his beautiful and effortless glide over the ice was apparent. Several people I talked to at the Vancouver arena also thought Kozuka was particularly wonderful there. He was just underscored, total politics, going into the Olympics as the "3rd ranked" Japanese Man. It's too bad he didn't win his World Silver Medal in 2009 rather than 2011...

Let's please try to be polite about how we describe the scores that have been given out, particularly because some posters were worried about backlash to the way they scored. There are certainly scores of yours that I disagree with, and you have a few GOE/PCS outliers yourself... but we are all entitled to our opinions here, so let's discuss without getting nasty.

Those jumps that have near +2's across the board were pretty cleanly done. They already check off 3 bullets of good flow/effortless/good extension. If the judge thought it had the height/matched the musical structure, or had good height/distance then yeah a +2 isn't out of the realm of reason.

Your scores indicate you definitely were not a fan of Lysacek, so it would be interesting to see what happens should the highs and lows be incorporated. Nobody's yet to come for you for being an outlier in a couple places.

Multiple posters expressed some of their own dismay about the result, and confusion. I provided a reason for why the result come out as it did.

Now that the scores are in, the most interesting part of the thread can happen - people discussing why they give the scores they did, and any observer being able to share their thoughts about it. Dancing around the issue and just using empty catchphrases like "outlier" doesn't help anything. You should go ahead and address any of my marks you are interested in talking about!

Hi guys I'm so sorry.

I was trying to make it smaller to fit hand converted to PDF so copied same Excel formulas over each page. This truly messed up with the GOE system. Will repost actual results soon!

Edit: the file link is now on the main post and fully fixed. with the GOE corrected Plushenko is in 3rd. I'm so sorry and so embarrassed with this mistake , I just was in a rush to get it done and took a shortcut which led to some big delays (in terms of rounding the values for one skater, and copying over that goe for the rest ending up with some spins getting same goe bonus as a triple or quad.

 

[randomfan]

Well this is a little embarrassing...I didn’t think that my scoring standards for skating skills would be so far off from the other judges

I’ll make a note of that for the next time I do a scoring project!

 

[ladyjane]

EDIT: I Made a huge mistake with GOE system on first release.
Here is correct version: https://filebin.net/x163kemo8v3fl6js

The file is considered unsafe and blocked to me. Somehow or other I can't see the results.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

The file is considered unsafe and blocked to me. Somehow or other I can't see the results.

Try this link directly: https://filebin.net/x163kemo8v3fl6js/Rescoring2010Olympics-converted__5_.pdf?t=1tdmcljp

 

[ladyjane]

Try this link directly: https://filebin.net/x163kemo8v3fl6js/Rescoring2010Olympics-converted__5_.pdf?t=1tdmcljp

Nope. It's been blocked. It's got to do something with filebin.net which isn't accepted. I don't know why. gofile did it just fine once I understood how it was supposed to work. Sorry about this, but I would like to see the end results if at all possible!

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Nope. It's been blocked. It's got to do something with filebin.net which isn't accepted. I don't know why. gofile did it just fine once I understood how it was supposed to work. Sorry about this, but I would like to see the end results if at all possible!

https://gofile.io/d/rOtJlA
EDIT:
Sorry, this is correct instead: https://gofile.io/d/srdmk0

 

[ladyjane]

Perfect kolyadafan2002! Thanks a lot. I'll come back to the discussions later!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Hi guys I'm so sorry.

I was trying to make it smaller to fit hand converted to PDF so copied same Excel formulas over each page. This truly messed up with the GOE system. Will repost actual results soon!

Edit: the file link is now on the main post and fully fixed. with the GOE corrected Plushenko is in 3rd. I'm so sorry and so embarrassed with this mistake , I just was in a rush to get it done and took a shortcut which led to some big delays (in terms of rounding the values for one skater, and copying over that goe for the rest ending up with some spins getting same goe bonus as a triple or quad.

No worries! You're doing an amazing job with this. Looking forward to the updates!

Makes sense why Plushenko would jump to 3rd because spins aren't his strong suit, and unfortunately that probably doesn't spell well for Lambiel.

Could you also post the Excel file if possible when you post the PDF? I might try to see what it's like when the highs and lows are dropped, so I just want to make sure the formulas are consistent with yours (I'm guessing it's the same formulas from the original scoring file you sent). Thanks!

 

[cohen-esque]

It seems like there’s an error with jump GOE as well for the results linked in the OP? Triples including the 3A are factored at x0.7, but in 2010 they were just factored by 1, so the marks are lower than they should be. And 2A looks like it’s factored by 0.5 instead of 1, also. Negative GOE in quads and 3As also had a higher factor; for example, it was -1.4 for the 3A and -1.6 for quads.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

It seems like there’s an error with jump GOE as well for the results linked in the OP? Triples including the 3A are factored at x0.7, but in 2010 they were just factored by 1, so the marks are lower than they should be. And 2A looks like it’s factored by 0.5 instead of 1, also. Negative GOE in quads and 3As also had a higher factor; for example, it was -1.4 for the 3A and -1.6 for quads.

So incredibly sorry!!! How were spins factored?

 

[cohen-esque]

So incredibly sorry!!! How were spins factored?

It was the version with the spins fixed in terms of +GOE at x0.50. But some of the spins had -GOE here, and negative GOE was done at -0.30, -0.60, -1.0.

For the jumps there should be:
2A x1.0 positive GOE (+3 = 1.50)
2A x -0.70 for negative GOE (-3 = -2.10)
Triples x1.0 both ways (+/-3 = 3.00)
3A and Quads x1.0 for positive GOE (+3 = 3.00)
3A x -1.4 for negative GOE (-3 = -4.20)
Quads x -1.6 for negative GOE (-3 = -4.8)

Also, Level 3 steps had the same negative factor as spins, if that came up anywhere. Level 4 steps had the same GOE factoring as the 2A both ways.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

It was the version with the spins fixed in terms of +GOE at x0.50. But some of the spins had -GOE here, and negative GOE was done at -0.30, -0.60, -1.0.

For the jumps there should be:
2A x1.0 positive GOE (+3 = 1.50)
2A x -0.70 for negative GOE (-3 = -2.10)
Triples x1.0 both ways (+/-3 = 3.00)
3A and Quads x1.0 for positive GOE (+3 = 3.00)
3A x -1.4 for negative GOE (-3 = -4.20)
Quads x -1.6 for negative GOE (-3 = -4.8)

Also, Level 3 steps had the same negative factor as spins, if that came up anywhere. Level 4 steps had the same GOE factoring as the 2A both ways.

thanks, here is corrected version: ****
I'm very dumb for making my life more difficult. I originally used 2011 values accidentally as 2010 were very hard to find. Thankfully placements haven't changed from most recent post:

EDIT: https://gofile.io/d/VNxGaS - lambiels quad GOE

 

[kolyadafan2002]

No worries! You're doing an amazing job with this. Looking forward to the updates!

Makes sense why Plushenko would jump to 3rd because spins aren't his strong suit, and unfortunately that probably doesn't spell well for Lambiel.

Could you also post the Excel file if possible when you post the PDF? I might try to see what it's like when the highs and lows are dropped, so I just want to make sure the formulas are consistent with yours (I'm guessing it's the same formulas from the original scoring file you sent). Thanks!

thank you, sorry for all the mistakes. Guess 2010 was just a bit before my time!
here is corrected pdf version: EDIT: https://gofile.io/d/VNxGaS
Screwed up originally scale factors for GOE as used 2011 by mistake,

Here is excel doccument (with hopefully correct scale factors!!!):

EDIT: https://gofile.io/d/J6dkRK

 

[cohen-esque]

thanks, here is corrected version: https://gofile.io/d/srdmk0
I'm very dumb for making my life more difficult. I originally used 2011 values accidentally as 2010 were very hard to find. Thankfully placements haven't changed from most recent post:

Pretty sure this is my fault for giving you the -(factor) numbers, but, now this version has Lambiel's -GOE quads gaining positive points.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Pretty sure this is my fault for giving you the -(factor) numbers, but, now this version has Lambiel's -GOE quads gaining positive points.

nope, my fault - I understood what you meant but in my haste, I copied over -(factor). I get a little flustered when working under pressure and occasionally make stupid mistakes.
Here, hopefully third time is the charm: https://gofile.io/d/VNxGaS

CanadianSkaterGuy Just change the -1.6 to +1.6 on lambiels pdf and you will have correct scale factor