The Future of Pairs - Anything GOEs' deep dive into the discipline

[GoneWithTheWind]

Anything GOEs have started a series of articles on the future of pairs, split into 3 parts:

Part I puts the state of the pairs discipline in 2023 into context and looks at rule changes that have been proposed.

Part II looks at the development of pairs expertise worldwide, and how to support the emergence of new coaches and teams.

Part III examines the dark side of pairs, and how relaxing the discipline’s restrictive gender roles could contribute to a healthier culture and mitigate the risk of abuse.

Part 1 is available now, and I'll link the other 2 parts into the thread once they are published:
https://anythinggoe.com/the-future-...Wisb2S9JqOL4opnj42tFR0P8PLawc6R5GyC9YKdcil85E

I thought this was a really interesting and in depth article about the current pairs field. There are lots of quotes from current and recently retired skaters and coaches, as well as some interesting data analysis.

A couple of quotes that stood out to me on how to grow the popularity of the discipline:

Increasing the value of quads:

2018 Olympic Champion Aljona Savchenko: “I was always going for the full risk. I like the challenge." ... [However] the valuation of the elements is so low, you ask yourself, why [am I] doing that? Why, when there is no point? Others are doing double or triple and they get more points.

Deanna Stellato-Dudek argued that high-risk elements are an important part of what attracts audiences to pairs and that as well as including them in programs, there could be additional opportunities for teams to show off their best elements head-to-head.

Improving lift rules (especially for junior skaters):

Maxime Deschamps argued that the ISU should, for example, adjust rules to prioritize the execution of lifts, to encourage safe development for younger skaters... "Just do a nice one arm, one rev, with good basics.” His partner Stellato-Dudek agreed: “You need to be able to do the most basic of lifts and cover the rink at that speed before you’d ever be able to do a level four like that"

Improving artistry:

Bianconi added that she would support the addition of a choreographic lift or spin in the pairs discipline, which would have fewer restrictions and be judged on the grade of execution alone. “Our idea is always to be a little bit different on the ice, to create something that stays in the memory of the public.”

Combining pairs and ice dance:

Matteo Guarise expressed perhaps the most radical view. “I think one day it will be only one thing, pairs and ice dance. I have this vision because ice dance, they’re always [getting] more acrobatic, and pairs should have more choreography. It’s too much [focus on] elements. So why not? Maybe in 100 years, but one day. Because if you start really with the kids – because now, like you can’t ask [ice dancers like] Marco [Fabbri] and Charlène [Guignard] to do throws…but if you start with the kids already, it’s easy. Maybe you can do like the short program of ice dance, and then the free program for pairs!”

Looking forward to reading everyone's thoughts on the article and the points raised within it.

 

[4everchan]

the ice dance and pairs combo talk is not new... it may sound super appealing for some but I don't think it will ever happen.

I agree with raising back the BV for the hardest elements. I also agree that pairs are focused on getting the levels in lifts instead of good execution.. So many ugly lifts get level 4... and then a beautiful lift at a lower level doesn't get enough GOE credit.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Matteo Guarise is missing the point of ice dance, but maybe that's understanding considering all the rule changes going on these days... I just think it's a bit rich coming from a pairs skater who didn't have the deepest edges in his field to think that it's fine to combine the two, and that he's definitely underestimating the level of skating skills needed in elite ice dance. That said, I'd disagree even if someone like Han Cong or Eric Radford had the same opinion.

Pairs can take some superficial aspects of ice dance like skating in hold for step sequences but if you combine the two disciplines then by necessity certain specialised skills will be lost or watered down in quality. It takes a lot of effort to train throw/SBS jumps. It also takes a lot of effort (though less risk of injury) to hit all your levels in step sequences and twizzles. We could have pair-ice-dancers doing double jumps and having footwork than is more intricate than pairs but still less technically demanding than the average ice dance team currently. Or we could see pairs pushing the athletic limit and attempting quad throws/harder SBS triples, and ice dancers continuing to explore the greater choreographic freedom and precise blade control that marks them apart from other disciplines. You can't multitask without compromising the maximum technical level of each task, because there is not enough time in the programme or in training.

I also think it's important to retain avenues of development for skaters who naturally gravitate towards either acrobatic/jump elements (e.g. adrenaline junkie pair girl types) or skating skills (e.g. due to past injury limiting their jumping ability like Daisuke Takahashi).

I'll hop off my ice dance-defending soapbox now. I agree largely with the other pairs skaters who are sticking to talking about pairs.

 

[2sk8]

Very interesting write up, and I'm looking forward to seeing part 2 & 3. However, I don't think you get much breadth of opinion by only speaking to well-known coaches and successful international level skaters. It's a bit like exit interviews - we can think they are pointless, yet at the same time, those who chose to exit a job or company may share perspectives that can never be understood by those who have remained. Those perspectives, opinions and experiences may be more useful in terms of developing ways to increase and maintain interest in the discipline. It's not even like there are surveys to evaluate for the many who moved on - they just fade into the woodwork, and those who continue to coach and compete make a bunch of assumptions about why that occurred and how to "fix" it. It would be great if there were a realistic way to get that additional input.

 

[TallyT]

Very interesting write up, and I'm looking forward to seeing part 2 & 3. However, I don't think you get much breadth of opinion by only speaking to well-known coaches and successful international level skaters. It's a bit like exit interviews - we can think they are pointless, yet at the same time, those who chose to exit a job or company may share perspectives that can never be understood by those who have remained. Those perspectives, opinions and experiences may be more useful in terms of developing ways to increase and maintain interest in the discipline. It's not even like there are surveys to evaluate for the many who moved on - they just fade into the woodwork, and those who continue to coach and compete make a bunch of assumptions about why that occurred and how to "fix" it. It would be great if there were a realistic way to get that additional input.

That's a good point. There doesn't seem to be a way (or even a push) to find out from the actual people involved as to why they drifted away.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I also think it's important to retain avenues of development for skaters who naturally gravitate towards either acrobatic/jump elements (e.g. adrenaline junkie pair girl types) or skating skills (e.g. due to past injury limiting their jumping ability like Daisuke Takahashi).

I'll hop off my ice dance-defending soapbox now. I agree largely with the other pairs skaters who are sticking to talking about pairs.

Precisely why I got into pairs long ago as a teenager -- weak skating skills when my blades were on the ice, but oh, how I love to fly! I was still eagerly learning new lifts in my early 50s that hadn't been invented when I was in competition thirty years before. My partner had a part-time job with his cousin's construction company, but told me once he only did inside work, nothing on the exterior frame because he was afraid of heights. I exclaimed: "And you're a pairs skater?!" He just *looked* at me. Then I got it: "Oh. Right. You're not the one up there, I am."

There used to be a joke that pairs girls and hockey goalies shared a bond. Everyone else in their sports thought they were crazy.

 

[NaVi]

Matteo Guarise expressed perhaps the most radical view. “I think one day it will be only one thing, pairs and ice dance. I have this vision because ice dance, they’re always [getting] more acrobatic, and pairs should have more choreography. It’s too much [focus on] elements. So why not? Maybe in 100 years, but one day. Because if you start really with the kids – because now, like you can’t ask [ice dancers like] Marco [Fabbri] and Charlène [Guignard] to do throws…but if you start with the kids already, it’s easy. Maybe you can do like the short program of ice dance, and then the free program for pairs!”

There should actually be a 3rd discipline and it could be one of 2 things.

• An all around event like the decathlon/pentathlon where where two skaters skate individually, then together as in ice dance, and then together as in pairs.
• A duets discipline that's a compromise between singles and pairs that doesn't require as much upper body strength. An event like this is the only reasonable way to make paired figure skating gender neutral IMO for those that care about that.

I really don't like that idea that for pairs to advance that it must become more acrobatic. It's far better to just add a bit more time to the programs and add another jump pass or two.

And I really think that pairs could use a system that allows more flexibility in choosing elements for a program. Does every program need the twist and death spiral? The exact same amount of lifts? Why not let some people do a step sequence in the FS and others do another element if they wish?

Yes you lose the whole direct element comparison, but something has to give to allow more flexibility in program construction. FIgure skating should start "gamifying" itself rather than trying to define itself in objective terms like it were a pure sport like track and field.

 

[yuki@thelake]

Speaking from the perspective of the skaters here. They want to promote strong pairs skaters with stellar jump abilities and excellent skating skills. This means tapping the single skaters, especially at the higher levels like novice/junior, and enticing them to try out pairs.

However, when you have competitions where the double-duty skater doing both pairs and singles is only given 10 min to 2 hours in between the pairs and singles events, not many will heed the call. It's just too tough on the body. Literally punishment.

In the Boston NQS, initial schedule showed junior men's FS and junior pairs FS were overlapping. The skater is severely punished for trying out pairs, discouraging skaters even more (coaches reached out to LOC/referee), and now there's 2 hours break between 2 events, which is still not enough).

Make it easy for single skaters who can jump -- especially high levels -- to switch to pairs by making the transition between 2 disciplines smoother. And it starts with competitions being cognizant in terms of giving the double-duty skaters some time to recoup and recover.

 

[4everchan]

Speaking from the perspective of the skaters here. They want to promote strong pairs skaters with stellar jump abilities and excellent skating skills. This means tapping the single skaters, especially at the higher levels like novice/junior, and enticing them to try out pairs.

However, when you have competitions where the double-duty skater doing both pairs and singles is only given 10 min to 2 hours in between the pairs and singles events, not many will heed the call. It's just too tough on the body. Literally punishment.

In the Boston NQS, initial schedule showed junior men's FS and junior pairs FS were overlapping. The skater is severely punished for trying out pairs, discouraging skaters even more (coaches reached out to LOC/referee), and now there's 2 hours break between 2 events, which is still not enough).

Make it easy for single skaters who can jump -- especially high levels -- to switch to pairs by making the transition between 2 disciplines smoother. And it starts with competitions being cognizant in terms of giving the double-duty skaters some time to recoup and recover.

we see a lot of novices and juniors doing double duty in canada and i at CQÉ, that meant 4 programs quite close to one another....

 

[yuki@thelake]

The best way to promote pair skating is through the parents -- especially parents with international, if not Olympic, dreams for their kids.

Tell them: "Unless your kid is crazy talented like Ilia, forget about singles and go to pairs. You have a much better chance of getting that Team USA jacket (because it is all about the jacket LOL)."

Just look at the Junior Men: they'd have one entry with nine substitutes. Nine substitutes!!!! Unless your kid is at the very top, even if in the ISP, there is a slim chance of getting sent anywhere.

Look at pairs, only four junior teams in the ISP - that means multiple chances of getting assigned to competitions.

Market it to parents like this; many more will be willing to go to pairs.

 

[Diana Delafield]

we see a lot of novices and juniors doing double duty in canada and i at CQÉ, that meant 4 programs quite close to one another....

That's been done for a long time in Canada, but it used to be much easier to handle. Pairs, having no compulsories and for some time no short program either, always competed first. With their pairs event out of the way, if they were also entered in singles they could then tackle figures (hard on the nerves but easier stamina-wise) while the dancers were doing the compulsory dances. I had a few friends in novice who did all three disciplines, but their daily lives revolved totally around skating. Eventually the ones doing double or triple duty would settle on whichever they enjoyed most and/or had the most success.

Kristi Yamaguchi and Rudy Galindo were successful in both disciplines up to their national champion status, but either they had tremendous stamina, or the schedule at competitions was easier in their day .

 

[2sk8]

The best way to promote pair skating is through the parents -- especially parents with international, if not Olympic, dreams for their kids.

Tell them: "Unless your kid is crazy talented like Ilia, forget about singles and go to pairs. You have a much better chance of getting that Team USA jacket (because it is all about the jacket LOL)."

Just look at the Junior Men: they'd have one entry with nine substitutes. Nine substitutes!!!! Unless your kid is at the very top, even if in the ISP, there is a slim chance of getting sent anywhere.

Look at pairs, only four junior teams in the ISP - that means multiple chances of getting assigned to competitions.

Market it to parents like this; many more will be willing to go to pairs.

Having worked with male skaters at these levels, I get what you are saying but feel it simply buys into the pushy parent stereoptype. Skating as a Team, with another person on the ice day after day, requires a different personality than many singles skaters have. I'm not sure pushing pairs as a way to get internationals is the best way to develop teams longer term. It is true that it would give those opportunities in the short term - maybe some would come to like it. I think it would be better to have pairs and dance be a natrual part of the skating development pipeline much earlier in the learning process. More would try it, maybe more would stay in it.

 

[lariko]

Personally, until a certain country is either back in competition or skaters are exiting from there in increased quantities, the international pairs have poor showings. I am surprised that it is ice dancers that are getting the influx of male partners, not pairs.

What I want to know, is why Nazarychev is not skating for US...

 

[yuki@thelake]

The pitch I made is ideal for the higher level skaters looking for international opportunities.

The problem is that pair development does not exist in many rinks but only in select pair hubs in the country. Some parents may be interested in having their kids try out pairs, but there's no coach within 100 miles of them. In my parents' skating group on Facebook, one mom said his son just experienced a growth spurt and now has the strength and the build to do pairs successfully and is interested in pairs, but they don't know where to go to start pairs.

The USFS Pairs Camp needs to market itself more so that more people know that the camp accepts anyone interested in pairs, and tryouts with potential partners can be made during the camp as there are girls and boys with no partners but are looking to find partners. But other than the USFS pairs camp, where else can people interested in pairs go?

In our old rink, there are no pairs whatsoever. When we moved, one of my sons was told by his new coach he'd be perfect for pairs. He laughed at them as he -- who does not consider himself big and bulky like the pair guys he sees on TV - never even imagined himself as a pair skater. The coach insisted it's not about the build and height, but with the right technique, even a guy less than 6 ft tall can do pairs well.

Even well-established coaching teams like Evora/Peterson are struggling to find (and keep teams together) other than Max and Val (who's been with them since Florida, well, at least Max has been). I remember Cho Hye-jin, the Canadian-Korean skater now representing Korea in pairs. Hye-jin used to train singles in Canton MI with Theresa McKendry and drive back to Canada during weekends. The coaches convinced Hye-jin to try pairs, and she did. At that time, the boy they were trying to partner with Hye-jin, was this tall but skinny skater from Chicago, and she was so scared of how he would lift her that she refused to have anything to do with pairs. When Theresa retired, Hye-jin left Canton, trained exclusively in Canada, and then switched to pairs. The boy from Chicago quit skating as he dropped the 12-year-old partner that Evora/Peterson eventually found for him.

There are myriad issues in pairs. Finding skaters willing to do it is not easy. Finding girls willing to be thrown in the air is not easy; finding boys who can lift and throw girls is not easy. Pairs is a discipline that is best explored when the boy's bodies are developed enough to do the pair elements safely. I can't remember pairs teams who've been together since they were young kids, unlike dance like Davis/Charlie White, who's been together forever.

Finding a coach to train with is not easy. Not everyone can move to Colorado, Chicago, or California to skate with the established training facilities for pairs.

So yes, there are issues to think of how to attract kids/parents willing to make their kids do pairs at a young age. There are also issues of how to make higher level skaters shift to pairs. Different entry points require different approaches

 

[gkelly]

I can't remember pairs teams who've been together since they were young kids

Most likely sibling teams.

And even then it's not uncommon for one sibling to quit and the other to have a senior career with a different partner

 

[yuki@thelake]

Most likely sibling teams.

And even then it's not uncommon for one sibling to quit and the other to have a senior career with a different partner

It reminds me of the Mullens, who are now doing JGP in ice dance. All three siblings skated as kids. Caroline first did pairs with one of his brothers. That brother quit skating, so the parents switched the kids to ice dancing with the other brother, and successfully at that. I thought they had good potential as pair skaters, but not in the cards for them.

And we're not even touching on the topic of finding the right partner but they have cray-cray parents LOL.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Having worked with male skaters at these levels, I get what you are saying but feel it simply buys into the pushy parent stereoptype. Skating as a Team, with another person on the ice day after day, requires a different personality than many singles skaters have.

All the men I've been willing to skate with had the same "old-fashioned" characteristics of protectiveness and chivalry. Protect your partner at all costs to yourself. Present her. Let her shine. Watch old videos of Paul Martini, or current ones of, for one example, Danny O'Shea. During the bows, they manage to seem to stand back, and they look sideways at their partners and smile -- proudly? can I say fondly? -- as she acknowledges the applause. That's who I wanted as a partner, not someone with an ego who needed all the spotlight, which may stand him in good stead as a singles skater, but not in pairs. And, as 2sk8 says, the ability to adapt and compromise and
get along with a partner all day and never risk her safety in a brief flash of temper.

I wish I'd kept count over the years of the number of male pair skaters, at the lower levels competitively maybe, but good steady partners, who after finishing school and retiring from skating went on to become firefighters. Exactly the same preferred personality traits, and the physiques to do the job.

 

[2sk8]

The problem is that pair development does not exist in many rinks but only in select pair hubs in the country. Some parents may be interested in having their kids try out pairs, but there's no coach within 100 miles of them. In my parents' skating group on Facebook, one mom said his son just experienced a growth spurt and now has the strength and the build to do pairs successfully and is interested in pairs, but they don't know where to go to start pairs.

This raises another problem that starts much before novice or junior skaters looking for international skating opportunities - bluntly, USFS encourages exactly what you are describing. Skaters deemed to have a reasonable chance of being good pairs skaters are Told to go to X or Y training locations, as far as I can tell - from recent real experience BTW - to fill out the rosters of those coaches. There are Lots of coaches, Male and Female, in other parts of the country with good pairs expertise. They are not in any way encouraged by TPTB to develop a pipeline for pairs from the beginning levels. Many hope to teach pairs but rapidly learn they will not be supported in doing so.

Your suggestion is a good one for those at higher skating levels - my only issue with it, as I said, is the focus on playing to the parents. I know skaters whose parents have been pushed exactly that way by USFS and known pairs coaches, but the skaters really did not want to do pairs. They wanted to do what they could in singles and do other things with their lives. At that age, the focus should be on the skater's choice - they are, after all, the one who has to train every day to the exclusion of most everything else.

Thus, I think the focus needs to be on creating true interest from a younger age at lower skating levels for there to be much chance of longer-term successful development of the discipline.

 

[gkelly]

There are coaches in my club who have international pair skating experience.

But there is not appropriate ice time available for interested skaters to work on pair moves.

If they wanted to start a pair program, the biggest challenge would be finding ice time that could be devoted to pair skating (or otherwise sufficiently empty with the few other skaters on the ice able to look out for themselves), at a time of day when the skaters could be available and at a relatively affordable price.

I know a woman who skated pairs in the 1970s, who says they used to practice from about 1:30 to 5 AM.

 

[yuki@thelake]

There are coaches in my club who have international pair skating experience.

But there is not appropriate ice time available for interested skaters to work on pair moves.

If they wanted to start a pair program, the biggest challenge would be finding ice time that could be devoted to pair skating (or otherwise sufficiently empty with the few other skaters on the ice able to look out for themselves), at a time of day when the skaters could be available and at a relatively affordable price.

I know a woman who skated pairs in the 1970s, who says they used to practice from about 1:30 to 5 AM.

So true. I remember in Canton MI, pairs ice time was in the morning -- which is good for Max and Val as they have no school or anything. But in terms of developing young pair skaters, these young skaters are normally in school, so coming to skate pairs in the morning is not doable. And the rink won't budge and give them other time for pairs. So, your pool is limited to young skaters who are homeschooling.

I talked with Jason Dungjen, a former pairs skater who now runs Detroit Skating Club. In Sochi, he and Yuka Sato were coaches of 2 pair teams - Japan and Italy. I asked him why there is no pairs program in DSC, and he said it is tough to build a pairs program, particularly finding a team. When Ryuichi Kihara was with Narumi Takahashi, they trained in DSC, but the lack of other teams to train with (among other reasons) made Ryuichi move to train in Montreal. If a big club like DSC struggles with finding and developing pair teams, the challenge is even bigger for smaller clubs.

Regarding developing interest in pairs at a young age, tie-ups with ice shows where kids can be paired together and do little pair elements here, and there could be a good intro point for pairs. I have seen this happen several times where, after the show, the kids got interested in skating together and doing elements together. Theater on Ice could also be a good intro point for pairs. But there needs to be a program to guide the skaters from the interest stage to the learning stage, not just a once-a-year activity during ice shows.

As a parent, I think pairs are a difficult discipline to push your kid into. It has to be what the kid wants. After all, it is not easy. The girl should want to fly and be thrown in the air; not many girls want that.