Time to replace my 30 year-old Harlicks – Need advice for new boots!

[julietmg]

The last pair of skates I bought were Harlick High Testers with Coronation Ace blades. I was fitted for them when I was 14 and working on double lutzes and axels.

I’ve used them intermittently since then – including a stint in college when I tried to get my doubles back. They never really fit me well, I don’t think – the inside of top of my landing foot boot used to rub my skin away to the point where I always had to wear terry cloth wristbands around my ankles. I’ve since solved that by not even lacing the top two holes. Seems to work!

Here’s where I am now:

• I moved to Maine 3 years ago and skate on our town’s outdoor rink and frozen ponds during the winter season. The nearest indoor rink is an hour away, so 99% of my skating is going to be outdoors. Sometimes that means skating through an inch of snow or more on top of the ice. Way messier than an indoor rink! Sometimes the soles of my boots are covered in snow when I take off my skates.
• I have no real desire to jump anymore. I might do some singles for fun, but that’s it. I have health insurance, but it’s a high deductible plan! I can’t spin anymore thanks to benign positional vertigo. Oh, the joys of getting old!
• I would like to focus on edge quality, speed and power, doing some solo ice dance again, and also, skating figures! Nothing beats a patch session on a newly frozen pond. I’d love to get a good Ina Bauer or Spread Eagle – things I could never be bothered to work on much when I was focused on jumping and spinning as a teenager.
• No desire to compete or test. I just want to skate for joy and exercise.
• My feet have definitely gotten wider and maybe also longer post-childbirth. I also have a wicked bunion on my landing foot that doubtless had its roots in skating. It aches intermittently. I’ve been told my feet are wider in the ball and normal / narrow in the heel.
• Pond skating can be much colder than rink skating. I have skated outside with temperatures of 10 degrees F. Shoving my now larger feet into my Harlicks requires thin socks – which don’t work so well for me when it’s cold outside. My skating time tends to be limited by my toes getting numb!
• My weight has also changed since I got the skates – I was 5’-4” 125 lbs.; now I’m between 140-155.
• I’m kind of bewildered by the boot options out there now and don’t know where to start.
• I’m looking for something that is tough and can hold up to the messy nature of pond skating, that isn’t absolutely horrible to break in, that hopefully is cushier than the old-fashioned boots I’m in now and won’t make my feet ache or freeze!
• Skate fitters are few and far between up here – ideally it would be a brand that’s available in Maine. It looks like the place closest to me might have Jackson and Riedell. I could maybe swing a trip to Boston to visit friends and get a wider range there, but that’s a 5-hour one-way trip for me.

Can anyone provide suggestions? Thanks so much!

 

[spinningdancer]

Pond skating is going to be tougher on your blades than your boots. I'm assuming this is a pond that lacks a typical Zamboni to resurface the ice? If it's an outdoor rink with a Zamboni, then the quality of ice will be higher. A rink/pond with snow on top and less than ideal ice quality will require more frequent blade sharpenings, since there is likely debris on it, and the uneven surface probably isn't ideal for doing much outside of skating around in circles for fun. A pair of less expensive Riedells or Jacksons is probably your best bet, at least for the pond. I wouldn't want to invest too much in a pair of skates that will mainly be used outdoors, unless you have high quality outdoor rink. If you have both a pond and a higher quality outdoor rink with a Zamboni, then I'd consider getting two pairs of skates, but probably just start with one and see how you like them. Generally, for pond skating, it's recommended to use a pair of old boots and blades that you don't care about as much, but if the Harlicks don't fit you well, then you probably shouldn't keep using them.

 

[Talionis]

I'm just a beginner, so take my advice with a big grain of salt, but I'd suggest sticking with the thin socks and using insulated boot covers rather than trying to cram thick socks into your skates. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TJ1N1T...colid=HWRAX8H5AG9E&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

[NanaPat]

Many, many years ago I had faux-fur fuzzy skate covers for outdoor skating. They definitely helped keep my toes warm.

ETA: I see @Talionis beat me in replying. Those in their link look better than the ones I had, as they have the fur on the inside and have an additional layer.

 

[julietmg]

I'm just a beginner, so take my advice with a big grain of salt, but I'd suggest sticking with the thin socks and using insulated boot covers rather than trying to cram thick socks into your skates. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TJ1N1T...colid=HWRAX8H5AG9E&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Interesting idea! Hadn't even thought of that. I was hoping to at least fit a pair of thin merino wool socks into my skates rather than the super thin near stockings I use now.

 

[julietmg]

Many, many years ago I had faux-fur fuzzy skate covers for outdoor skating. They definitely helped keep my toes warm.

ETA: I see @Talionis beat me in replying. Those in their link look better than the ones I had, as they have the fur on the inside and have an additional layer.

Thanks! I don't think I've ever seen these before. Appreciate the suggestion!

 

[julietmg]

Pond skating is going to be tougher on your blades than your boots. I'm assuming this is a pond that lacks a typical Zamboni to resurface the ice? If it's an outdoor rink with a Zamboni, then the quality of ice will be higher. A rink/pond with snow on top and less than ideal ice quality will require more frequent blade sharpenings, since there is likely debris on it, and the uneven surface probably isn't ideal for doing much outside of skating around in circles for fun. A pair of less expensive Riedells or Jacksons is probably your best bet, at least for the pond. I wouldn't want to invest too much in a pair of skates that will mainly be used outdoors, unless you have high quality outdoor rink. If you have both a pond and a higher quality outdoor rink with a Zamboni, then I'd consider getting two pairs of skates, but probably just start with one and see how you like them. Generally, for pond skating, it's recommended to use a pair of old boots and blades that you don't care about as much, but if the Harlicks don't fit you well, then you probably shouldn't keep using them.

Hi! Thanks for the response. No, there is no mechanical resurfacing on either the outdoor rink or any of the ponds here. I have been skating on them for the past three winters and have managed to skate fast, jump, and skate figures as well. So more than circles are definitely possible!

The quality of the ice surface obviously varies with weather conditions. It can range from mirror-like perfection to downright un-skateable. I'm happy keeping the Coronation Aces I have and trying to just get them sharpened more frequently. They've already seen 30 years of use, so what more harm can I really do them at this point?

I can certainly understand the concept of having a pair of "beater" skates to use outside. However, pond skating basically IS my skating now. When ice is available and the weather agrees, I am basically out on the ice every day I can manage. I have no objection to investing some money in a new pair of boots, because my "beater" boots are beating up my feet!

I was wondering if maybe there were decent boots out there with synthetic soles that might hold up better to the extra moisture from being used outside. I can see the layers of leather in my Harlicks's heels are starting to delaminate a bit.

Thanks again!

 

[julietmg]

Hi! Thanks for the response. No, there is no mechanical resurfacing on either the outdoor rink or any of the ponds here. I have been skating on them for the past three winters and have managed to skate fast, jump, and skate figures as well. So more than circles are definitely possible!

The quality of the ice surface obviously varies with weather conditions. It can range from mirror-like perfection to downright un-skateable. I'm happy keeping the Coronation Aces I have and trying to just get them sharpened more frequently. They've already seen 30 years of use, so what more harm can I really do them at this point?

I can certainly understand the concept of having a pair of "beater" skates to use outside. However, pond skating basically IS my skating now. When ice is available and the weather agrees, I am basically out on the ice every day I can manage. I have no objection to investing some money in a new pair of boots, because my "beater" boots are beating up my feet!

I was wondering if maybe there were decent boots out there with synthetic soles that might hold up better to the extra moisture from being used outside. I can see the layers of leather in my Harlicks's heels are starting to delaminate a bit.

Thanks again!

I should add one note that maybe will help with context -- bodies of water that are big enough to be called "lakes" elsewhere in the US are often called "ponds" in Maine. So I'm really talking about skating on lakes that are larger than multiple olympic sized rinks put together. Not small backyard ponds.

 

[spinningdancer]

I should add one note that maybe will help with context -- bodies of water that are big enough to be called "lakes" elsewhere in the US are often called "ponds" in Maine. So I'm really talking about skating on lakes that are larger than multiple olympic sized rinks put together. Not small backyard ponds.

Oh for sure, more than circles are definitely possible, but of course, the quality of ice will play a role in determining the quality of whatever you do on it. Indoor ice in desperate need of resurfacing can be worse than skating on some outdoor surfaces. I would definitely ditch the old Harlicks, since a) they don't fit right, and b) skate technology has come quite a long way in 30 years. Unfortunately though, I haven't found anything that works when it comes to keeping feet warmer, short of increasing the air temperature, which you can't really do outdoors (or at most indoor rinks for that matter, unless you work there maybe and are in control of the thermostat). I worked at a very, very cold indoor rink, and after a couple hours of teaching, my toes would be completely numb. Tried various methods of warming them while on the ice, including having thinsulate material built into a pair of custom boots, and nothing worked for me. The only thing that kind of worked was layering with clothes made of the correct materials (no cotton as a first layer), and keeping my core and legs warm. I concluded that feet ultimately get cold due to the blade being in contact with the ice, and no matter how much I'd surround my foot with warmth, the cold would still come through from the bottom. Unfortunately, most skates that are correctly fitted will also require you to wear thin socks. A slightly thicker sock might work, but anything too thick will throw off the fit.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

The last pair of skates I bought were Harlick High Testers with Coronation Ace blades. I was fitted for them when I was 14 and working on double lutzes and axels.

I’ve used them intermittently since then – including a stint in college when I tried to get my doubles back. They never really fit me well, I don’t think – the inside of top of my landing foot boot used to rub my skin away to the point where I always had to wear terry cloth wristbands around my ankles. I’ve since solved that by not even lacing the top two holes. Seems to work!

Here’s where I am now:

• I moved to Maine 3 years ago and skate on our town’s outdoor rink and frozen ponds during the winter season. The nearest indoor rink is an hour away, so 99% of my skating is going to be outdoors. Sometimes that means skating through an inch of snow or more on top of the ice. Way messier than an indoor rink! Sometimes the soles of my boots are covered in snow when I take off my skates.
• I have no real desire to jump anymore. I might do some singles for fun, but that’s it. I have health insurance, but it’s a high deductible plan! I can’t spin anymore thanks to benign positional vertigo. Oh, the joys of getting old!
• I would like to focus on edge quality, speed and power, doing some solo ice dance again, and also, skating figures! Nothing beats a patch session on a newly frozen pond. I’d love to get a good Ina Bauer or Spread Eagle – things I could never be bothered to work on much when I was focused on jumping and spinning as a teenager.
• No desire to compete or test. I just want to skate for joy and exercise.
• My feet have definitely gotten wider and maybe also longer post-childbirth. I also have a wicked bunion on my landing foot that doubtless had its roots in skating. It aches intermittently. I’ve been told my feet are wider in the ball and normal / narrow in the heel.
• Pond skating can be much colder than rink skating. I have skated outside with temperatures of 10 degrees F. Shoving my now larger feet into my Harlicks requires thin socks – which don’t work so well for me when it’s cold outside. My skating time tends to be limited by my toes getting numb!
• My weight has also changed since I got the skates – I was 5’-4” 125 lbs.; now I’m between 140-155.
• I’m kind of bewildered by the boot options out there now and don’t know where to start.
• I’m looking for something that is tough and can hold up to the messy nature of pond skating, that isn’t absolutely horrible to break in, that hopefully is cushier than the old-fashioned boots I’m in now and won’t make my feet ache or freeze!
• Skate fitters are few and far between up here – ideally it would be a brand that’s available in Maine. It looks like the place closest to me might have Jackson and Riedell. I could maybe swing a trip to Boston to visit friends and get a wider range there, but that’s a 5-hour one-way trip for me.

Can anyone provide suggestions? Thanks so much!

HI and welcome! You will want to look into Jackson's semi custom synergy line of boots. You can customize your stiffness 60-80 and then they have the mid range boot (which I would suggest for you) with the synthetic heel/sole, and the textured carbon-like outer boot. Most of these take 2 weeks to customize. Also, I'd invest in a new Coro Ace to go with them. Your blade can't possibly be good after 30 years.

If you need suggestions for fitters in Boston, let me know via PM.

Good luck!

 

[tstop4me]

OP: Given your skating conditions, I'd recommend that you also check out a different blade, the Eclipse Aurora. It's their version of the Coronation Ace. A close copy, except that the spin rocker is a bit flatter than that of the Coronation Ace. But I think your skating performance will primarily be limited by ice conditions, and the difference in spin rocker won't be significant for you. The big plus for the Aurora is that it's manufactured from 440C stainless steel, resulting in (a) superior rust resistance and (b) longer edge life compared to the Coronation Ace. Given that you'll be skating primarily outdoors, those are big advantages. Also, right now, the list price of the Aurora is $39 less than that of the Coronation Ace.

 

[julietmg]

HI and welcome! You will want to look into Jackson's semi custom synergy line of boots. You can customize your stiffness 60-80 and then they have the mid range boot (which I would suggest for you) with the synthetic heel/sole, and the textured carbon-like outer boot. Most of these take 2 weeks to customize. Also, I'd invest in a new Coro Ace to go with them. Your blade can't possibly be good after 30 years.

If you need suggestions for fitters in Boston, let me know via PM.

Good luck!

Thanks so much for the recommendation! I will send you a PM.

 

[julietmg]

OP: Given your skating conditions, I'd recommend that you also check out a different blade, the Eclipse Aurora. It's their version of the Coronation Ace. A close copy, except that the spin rocker is a bit flatter than that of the Coronation Ace. But I think your skating performance will primarily be limited by ice conditions, and the difference in spin rocker won't be significant for you. The big plus for the Aurora is that it's manufactured from 440C stainless steel, resulting in (a) superior rust resistance and (b) longer edge life compared to the Coronation Ace. Given that you'll be skating primarily outdoors, those are big advantages. Also, right now, the list price of the Aurora is $39 less than that of the Coronation Ace.

Thanks for that super suggestion! I will look into those alternate blades as well as the new boot possibilities.

I have to ask a dumb question because when I was skating as a kid and teen, nobody did much to explain the physics of skating to me why they recommended certain blades or boots for my skill level. Will the flatter spin rocker not matter because I'm not spinning anymore? What kind of effect (if any) would that have for figure or ice dance edges?

Interestingly, I unearthed my even older pair of skates today. They were a pair of Riedell Imperials that I was never fully able to break in, which is what precipitated my getting the Harlicks as a replacement. I didn't think anything could hurt my bunion more than the Harlicks, but the Imperials can! That aside, I have another pair of Coronation Aces on those boots that are much less chewed up at this point because they saw far less use. Maybe I could use those on a temporary basis.

Another dumb question: If a blade hasn't been used all that much over that last 30 years and it's not rusted because it's been stored in climate controlled conditions, what would make that blade not OK for now?

 

[julietmg]

Oh for sure, more than circles are definitely possible, but of course, the quality of ice will play a role in determining the quality of whatever you do on it. Indoor ice in desperate need of resurfacing can be worse than skating on some outdoor surfaces. I would definitely ditch the old Harlicks, since a) they don't fit right, and b) skate technology has come quite a long way in 30 years. Unfortunately though, I haven't found anything that works when it comes to keeping feet warmer, short of increasing the air temperature, which you can't really do outdoors (or at most indoor rinks for that matter, unless you work there maybe and are in control of the thermostat). I worked at a very, very cold indoor rink, and after a couple hours of teaching, my toes would be completely numb. Tried various methods of warming them while on the ice, including having thinsulate material built into a pair of custom boots, and nothing worked for me. The only thing that kind of worked was layering with clothes made of the correct materials (no cotton as a first layer), and keeping my core and legs warm. I concluded that feet ultimately get cold due to the blade being in contact with the ice, and no matter how much I'd surround my foot with warmth, the cold would still come through from the bottom. Unfortunately, most skates that are correctly fitted will also require you to wear thin socks. A slightly thicker sock might work, but anything too thick will throw off the fit.

Thanks! I'm wondering if thin merino wool socks could do the trick. It might also be possible that having my now wider feet so incredibly cramped in my boots is what's causing the numbness at least partially.

I did like the other suggestion about boot covers. Maybe that would help? Now that I'm thinking of it, I remember one of the coaches at my old rink wearing them.

 

[spinningdancer]

Thanks! I'm wondering if thin merino wool socks could do the trick. It might also be possible that having my now wider feet so incredibly cramped in my boots is what's causing the numbness at least partially.

I did like the other suggestion about boot covers. Maybe that would help? Now that I'm thinking of it, I remember one of the coaches at my old rink wearing them.

Thin merino wool might help, and you could also look into wool insoles. You can try boot covers, and they'd probably help to some extent, but they won't help with any cold that comes up through the sole of the boot from the blade being in contact with the ice.

 

[tstop4me]

have to ask a dumb question because when I was skating as a kid and teen, nobody did much to explain the physics of skating to me why they recommended certain blades or boots for my skill level. Will the flatter spin rocker not matter because I'm not spinning anymore? What kind of effect (if any) would that have for figure or ice dance edges?

<<Emphasis added>> I'll leave the highlighted question for someone qualified to answer. My point only is that since the ice surface you'll be skating on likely will be fairly poor relative to a groomed indoor ice surface, the effect of a slightly flatter spin rocker on performance will be minor relative to the effect of a crappy ice surface.

Interestingly, I unearthed my even older pair of skates today. They were a pair of Riedell Imperials that I was never fully able to break in, which is what precipitated my getting the Harlicks as a replacement. I didn't think anything could hurt my bunion more than the Harlicks, but the Imperials can! That aside, I have another pair of Coronation Aces on those boots that are much less chewed up at this point because they saw far less use. Maybe I could use those on a temporary basis.

<<Emphasis added>> Hey, those might be collectors' items. I skated many years on Riedell Royals. At one point, Riedell introduced the Imperials, their stiffest boots at the time. I remember a well-known skate tech in my area told me that Riedell pulled them from the market after only a year or so. He told me they were so stiff that nobody could break them in. So you're not alone in that regard.

Another dumb question: If a blade hasn't been used all that much over that last 30 years and it's not rusted because it's been stored in climate controlled conditions, what would make that blade not OK for now?

They should be just fine. As long as they are the right length for your new boots, go ahead and reuse them. The usual degradation mode of plain-carbon-steel blades stored for a long time is rust. But if they are not rusted (or only lightly rusted), the steel is fine as long as they weren't abused (e.g., someone pounded them with a hammer or heated them with a blowtorch, or something crazy like that). I have a pocket knife, with plain-carbon-steel blades, made in Sheffield, England (home of Wilson and MK). I bought it when I was a kid over 50 yrs ago. Still works fine.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I'm thinking Jackson's may suit you, especially something with the Fusion sole and heel, as that won't be degraded by snow and water.

I have always suffered from very cold feet but my current boots seen to have that sorted. They are Jackson Elite Pro, the beige suede ones, designed primarily for coaches and show skaters, ie people who spend long hours on the ice, and my skate tech said that they are the warmest skates she's ever had. I love mine and haven't had cold feet since buying them. I have the wide fitting, and they've been heat moulded, too. Very bunion-friendly indeed!

Nothing beats a professional fitting by a reputable fitter, though. Ic3Rabbit knows all of them.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I'm thinking Jackson's may suit you, especially something with the Fusion sole and heel, as that won't be degraded by snow and water.

I have always suffered from very cold feet but my current boots seen to have that sorted. They are Jackson Elite Pro, the beige suede ones, designed primarily for coaches and show skaters, ie people who spend long hours on the ice, and my skate tech said that they are the warmest skates she's ever had. I love mine and haven't had cold feet since buying them. I have the wide fitting, and they've been heat moulded, too. Very bunion-friendly indeed!

Nothing beats a professional fitting by a reputable fitter, though. Ic3Rabbit knows all of them.

Thank you. I was going to suggest that boot especially since OP mentioned figures, but I was concerned about the suede.

 

[julietmg]

<<Emphasis added>> I'll leave the highlighted question for someone qualified to answer. My point only is that since the ice surface you'll be skating on likely will be fairly poor relative to a groomed indoor ice surface, the effect of a slightly flatter spin rocker on performance will be minor relative to the effect of a crappy ice surface.

<<Emphasis added>> Hey, those might be collectors' items. I skated many years on Riedell Royals. At one point, Riedell introduced the Imperials, their stiffest boots at the time. I remember a well-known skate tech in my area told me that Riedell pulled them from the market after only a year or so. He told me they were so stiff that nobody could break them in. So you're not alone in that regard.

They should be just fine. As long as they are the right length for your new boots, go ahead and reuse them. The usual degradation mode of plain-carbon-steel blades stored for a long time is rust. But if they are not rusted (or only lightly rusted), the steel is fine as long as they weren't abused (e.g., someone pounded them with a hammer or heated them with a blowtorch, or something crazy like that). I have a pocket knife, with plain-carbon-steel blades, made in Sheffield, England (home of Wilson and MK). I bought it when I was a kid over 50 yrs ago. Still works fine.

Thanks so much! What a funny note about the Imperials! I feel vindicated now! I worked my way up from Silver Star through Royal as I progressed over the years. The Imperials were a bridge too far.

Thanks also for the info on the the blades. I think I might need to save my money for the boots at this point if I can!

 

[julietmg]

I'm thinking Jackson's may suit you, especially something with the Fusion sole and heel, as that won't be degraded by snow and water.

I have always suffered from very cold feet but my current boots seen to have that sorted. They are Jackson Elite Pro, the beige suede ones, designed primarily for coaches and show skaters, ie people who spend long hours on the ice, and my skate tech said that they are the warmest skates she's ever had. I love mine and haven't had cold feet since buying them. I have the wide fitting, and they've been heat moulded, too. Very bunion-friendly indeed!

Nothing beats a professional fitting by a reputable fitter, though. Ic3Rabbit knows all of them.

These sound amazing. Seems like I'm narrowing the field to Jacksons, which is a huge help.