- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Doggy Girl - As to your original question. I believe there was a contention among many European fans that Susanna Poykio should have won the LP not necessarily the whole competition.
Joe
Joe
Joesitz said:Doggy Girl - As to your original question. I believe there was a contention among many European fans that Susanna Poykio should have won the LP not necessarily the whole competition.
Joe
I love that answer, DG, LOL.Doggygirl said:And how close she came (and I think she's a lovely skater!) - a completed double axel was the only thing standing between her and beating Irina in the FS. (or something else of equal point value) I wish her 2A would have worked in that program!
It's like comparing orderly with messy, and messy wins.Mathman said:I love that answer, DG, LOL.
If only the judges had agreed with you that Susanna is a lovely skater! But no, they thought Irina is a lovely skater, and gave her the advantage in PCS by an average of about 7.2 to 6.6 across the board. That's what won the LP for Irina.
Those are my favorite pieces! I was listening to a recording of piano music by Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern -- talk about "no tune that we can go around whistling" -- to figure out what modern excerpts are in Jeffrey Buttle's Glenn Gould tribute LP, and I was seeing lots of skating (in my head).Mathman said:BI agree with Rgirl, that if you just listen to this music it seems impossible to put any skating choreography with it. Unlike our favorite "war horses," it has no tune that we can go around whistling, nor big crescendos that cry out, "jump here!"
chuckm said:What was most interesting was looking at how each of the skaters' total PCS scores for each of 12 judges ranked. It should give you an interesting view of how the outcome of an event could change based on which judges' scores are selected for the final count.
[SIZE=-1]
01 01 01 03 01 01 03 04 02 01 02 01 Irina
02 09 02 01 02 04 01 03 01 03 01 04 Sasha
06 03 04 02 06 03 02 08 02 05 03 03 Michelle
04 06 05 05 07 07 06 01 07 07 07 02 Carolina
07 05 08 05 04 06 10 06 05 04 04 07 Shizuka
08 04 06 05 03 02 03 01 06 06 06 05 Elena
09 10 09 08 10 08 07 08 08 08 08 09 Miki
04 07 06 09 09 08 09 10 09 08 10 07 Susanna
10 07 10 09 07 10 08 07 10 10 08 10 Joannie
03 02 03 03 04 05 05 05 04 02 04 06 Fumie
[/SIZE]
And don't forget, Euterpe. These judges are experts in their field and totally unbiased. Yeah....euterpe said:Yikes! One judge ranked Carolina's PCS first, another Elena Sokolova's! Sasha was ranked as low as 9th, and Michelle as 8th. Miki and Joannie were consistently ranked among the lowest. On the positive side, Fumie's lowest rank was 6th.
Rgirl said:Sorry to get off-topic on the judges' scores, but just want to say this: When Tarasova was working with Sasha on "Malaguena" and the black-and-white "Swan Lake," TAT changed the choreography for every GP event Sasha skated in order to rack up more points under the NJS. As I've said before, the Trophee Lalique version was so chuggy-jam with potential for COP that had Sasha kept that version the rest of the season through Worlds in order to train it well and get the muscle memory set, and if she had skated it even moderately well (big IF, of course), IMO the Trophee Lalique B-&-W "Swan Lake" had the potential to be a 150-point or more scoring LP.
Therefore, with Tarasova at the helm of Michelle's short and long program choreography, I repeat and am even stronger in my belief that Michelle will win the OGM, not to mention a 10th US National title. Michelle may have been holding back since '02 in order to avoid burnout, but I say that though she may go a little easy during the GP series and cheesefests so she can peak at the right times, Michelle will come out guns a'blazin' for Nationals, the Olympics, and Worlds.
Power to the Kwan!
Rgirl
At 2005 Worlds, Sasha's spins in the LP had a combined base value of 10.3, compared to Michelle's 8.0.emma said:Just curious: since Michelle cannot do some of the spins Sasha does (and where Sasha, thus, can wrack up points), how do you think this will play out for Kwan (where will the points come in)?
Mathman said:At 2005 Worlds, Sasha's spins in the LP had a combined base value of 10.3, compared to Michelle's 8.0.
But even more important, Sasha got a combined 3.65 GOE on her spin elements, to Michelle's 0.71.
All told, this makes Michelle a "one jump underdog" before she begins.
MM
Assuming all rotate and land what's planned, Kwan will be in the same **jump only ** range as Cohen, but Slutskaya, Ando, Arakawa, and Kostner will be ahead of Kwan in base value because of 3/3(s). And a 3T/3T from Kwan won't match the 3/3's that Slutskaya and Ando (3Lz/3Lo), Arakawa (3Lz/3T and 3S/3T), and Kostner (3F/3T) have done in the past two years, although it will surpass Cohen's 3 SEQ 3 by a couple of points.emma said:I thought as much (without the mathematical precision), and for that reason was wondering about jump content and whether that will be an area where Michelle might be able to equalize the field so to speak.
Just one point: IF Michelle were to land even a 3T-3T and then five other triple jumps and a double axel, her base value could be just the same as skaters who landed a 3Z-3L or 3Z3T, especially if one of her other jump combinations is a 3 jump one (as she did at 2005 Worlds). A skater who landed two 3-3's would have an "extra" jumping pass to include a second double axel, but that would be the only base value advantage. With CoP, it is cumulative points and a 3Z-3T or 3Z-3L combo doesn't get any added value above the jumps done separately -- but having a triple-triple (or 2axel-triple combo) is necessary to be able to include seven triples in the program. A 3-3 sequence will actually score only 80% of what the two jumps would be individually, but again, it gives the skater a chance to include 7 triples by freeing up one of the seven allowed jumping passes.hockeyfan228 said:Assuming all rotate and land what's planned, Kwan will be in the same **jump only ** range as Cohen, but Slutskaya, Ando, Arakawa, and Kostner will be ahead of Kwan in base value because of 3/3(s). And a 3T/3T from Kwan won't match the 3/3's that Slutskaya and Ando (3Lz/3Lo), Arakawa (3Lz/3T and 3S/3T), and Kostner (3F/3T) have done in the past two years, although it will surpass Cohen's 3 SEQ 3 by a couple of points.
tarotx said:Sasha got out of TT way better edges and speed. She also has better conditioning. Michelle already has that. I think She could have got a strong program from any choreographer. It's up to her to decide if she wants it bad enough (I believe she does). It's not about TT or any skater really but herself. If Michelle wants it-it's hers.
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Good analysis, Skatingfan5.skatingfan5 said:Just one point: IF Michelle were to land even a 3T-3T and then five other triple jumps and a double axel, her base value could be just the same as skaters who landed a 3Z-3L or 3Z3T, especially if one of her other jump combinations is a 3 jump one (as she did at 2005 Worlds). A skater who landed two 3-3's would have an "extra" jumping pass to include a second double axel, but that would be the only base value advantage. With CoP, it is cumulative points and a 3Z-3T or 3Z-3L combo doesn't get any added value above the jumps done separately -- but having a triple-triple (or 2axel-triple combo) is necessary to be able to include seven triples in the program. A 3-3 sequence will actually score only 80% of what the two jumps would be individually, but again, it gives the skater a chance to include 7 triples by freeing up one of the seven allowed jumping passes.
Also agree that for Kwan, it all comes down to how much she wants it. If she really wants it, she'll be one of the contenders.
Of course the fact that she always messes up has created a fear that she will mess up so it's a double whammy! If she can find a way to keep her endurance then she has a good chance of an Olympic medal. Rather she has a 3-3 or not.