What Happened to TSL?

[rain]

This makes me very angry. The behaviour of people towards Dave has been despicable. He did absolutely nothing wrong.

I know some people love to rag on TSL, but I'm a big fan and have always looked forward to their videos. I was really looking forward to seeing their thoughts on Canadian nationals. I only hope these hypocrites (it's all, why didn't somebody say/do something when it's gymnastics, but as soon as it hits closer to home, people are just supposed to shut up, even about public notifications from official bodies) haven't turned away a great and needed voice for figure skating for good.

I doubt Dave is looking at much social media these days, what with what's happened to him, but I hope he knows that he still has supporters like me who really value what he does. I've never been so disappointed in the skating community.

 

[Metis]

This makes me very angry. The behaviour of people towards Dave has been despicable. He did absolutely nothing wrong.

I know some people love to rag on TSL, but I'm a big fan and have always looked forward to their videos. I was really looking forward to seeing their thoughts on Canadian nationals. I only hope these hypocrites (it's all, why didn't somebody say/do something when it's gymnastics, but as soon as it hits closer to home, people are just supposed to shut up, even about public notifications from official bodies) haven't turned away a great and needed voice for figure skating for good.

I doubt Dave is looking at much social media these days, what with what's happened to him, but I hope he knows that he still has supporters like me who really value what he does. I've never been so disappointed in the skating community.

I think gymnastics knows, or at least has been forced to admit at this point, that it has problems. Skating has not yet managed to reach that level of enlightenment.

 

[NymphyNymphy]

I am a little in the dark here. "number of tragedies this year" we are like three weeks in - can you explain? I don't even fully understand what Dave Lease / TSL did that was so horrible. I like skating; I have certain views but I don't think we should wish anyone harm especially threats. I hope Nationals in the US will go well and uneventful if you know what I mean. I know I am generalizing but skating sometimes is such a drama fest on and off the ice. Is this 25 years anniversary from the "whack heard around the world"? II think it is and that was a drama year. The pros. The return of Brian Boitano who seemed ready to win and then he and Browning crashed. The return of G and G and Artur and his partner and who should have won. The Tonya/Nancy thing. The should Nancy have won and the orphan waif Oksana story who got injured by the German woman who rotates in the opposite direction only to be carried off the ice by the grandmmother Katarina Witt. Then there was the battle of ice dancing with the return of Torvill and Dean o nly to be out drama by the Russian battle and the marital affairs of the top two teams Usova the home body and her wayward husband Zhulin along with the passionate drama queen Oksana and Platov. I am not sure we need that drama. I just hope no one gets hurt and everyone can enjoy good skating.

Sorry, I meant 2018/2019 season. And I don't think Dave is at fault. The skating community has just gone bonkers.

 

[NymphyNymphy]

I think gymnastics knows, or at least has been forced to admit at this point, that it has problems. Skating has not yet managed to reach that level of enlightenment.

Unfortunately enlightenment comes only after massive scandal and hurt.

 

[theharleyquinn]

Unfortunately enlightenment comes only after massive scandal and hurt.

Gymnastics should've been enough hurt for everyone to fall in line, especially figure skating which has similar dynamics and a large swath of overlapping fans. Wishful thinking, unfortunately.

 

[flipsydoodle]

I enjoy TSL so much, I have a hard time waiting for newest video. TSL is informative, friendly, and articulate. The latest videos on Coughlin's suicide, SafeSport and the role of the journalist were measured and professional. I found them impressive for their sensitivity; there was no snark or cattiness, just an attempt to inform. Mind-blowing that a journalist (even if you don't like Dave's journalism) can have death threats slung at him.

I haven't heard anyone blame Coughlin for his death; instead, it's anyone but. No one else was responsible for his decision to end his own life, but him. That seems to have been very readily forgotten in this case.
One of the most difficult fallouts of suicide, IMO, is that survivors have to deal with rage as well as grief. And the rage often gets inappropriately re-directed at people on the sidelines. I hope Dave, Christine Brennan, the SafeSport accusers stay safe; it's appalling that they've become victims in this.

 

[Sugar Coated]

He didn't need to risk potential trouble, knowing today's social media culture. The Brennan video right after the first interview with this other person who claimed to have been contacted by Safesport seems to me to be a headstrong response to those who condemned them (Dave and Brennan) on Twitter. That second video didn't add anything to the conversation.

I think it did add to the conversation, even if I didn't agree with everything. The whole point was that journalists follow certain principles and reporting on a public ban is part of their expectation. That's not gossip, that's disseminating information that is publicly available as is expected of journalists. While I may have waited a bit longer to address the controversy, I think Brennan made some excellent points about how its a disservice to the public and her profession to remain silent. If the allegations are true, than waiting to publish information could have allowed more victims and made her culpable. She also made it very clear that she HAD published Coughlin's response to the initial allegations and would have continued to provide a platform for his perspective as is her obligation as a journalist. I found the interview pretty informative about the safe sport process and journalistic rules for covering these things, although again may not have done this at this moment, but understand the desire to do so prior to Nationals. But the main take away really should be to review the Safe Sport process/procedures if people have concerns. The journalists have nothing to do with this, their job is just to report on the news.

Its ironic that people who are claiming that Coughlin didn't have an opportunity to defend himself or respond to allegations are many of the same people that don't believe Dave and Christine should have the opportunity to provide their perspective and defend themselves against really ugly accusations.

 

[GS Forum Staff]

We understand that the events surrounding this topic are sensitive and emotionally charged. But please continue to abide by forum posting guidelines.
Please also note that the spread of gossip and/or speculation about the identities of those involved in the John Coughlin investigation will cause the thread to be closed immediately.
Thank you for your understanding.

 

[chopinskate]

Lol. TSL actually reporting abuse is what got them this disgusting backlash. Words aren't enough to express how messed up that is.

Somehow, though, I don't think this will reform the way the US skating community at least continues to exist, and that the ones who deny there's anything wrong will continue to do so. Well done.

 

[sillylionlove29]

Flipsydoodle....I totally agree with you. No one knows why John killed himself but John. No one should be blamed for John killing himself but John. No one knows what was going on in his head. No one knows about his life behind closed doors. No one knows what demons he was struggling with. I think of recent celebrity suicides such as Chris Cornell (played an amazing show...killed himself hours later), Chester Bennington (no indication he was unhappy...had a major tour starting) or even Robin Williams. Suicide is a very selfish act. It’s fallout is with the ones left behind to pick up the pieces. To blame other people or threaten other people over someone’s suicide is absurd. Instead of speculations and badmouthing everyone, let’s have a conversation about suicide and suicide prevention. Reach out, ask a person if they need help because clearly a person who feels the need to end their life because of situation in their life isn’t going to reach out for help. A simple “hey are you ok? Anything I can do for you or help you with” might just save a life. Placing blame won’t. No doubt this situation is awful but the amount of blame and hatred being spewed around is horrible.

 

[Seren]

Flipsydoodle....I totally agree with you. No one knows why John killed himself but John. No one should be blamed for John killing himself but John. No one knows what was going on in his head. No one knows about his life behind closed doors. No one knows what demons he was struggling with. I think of recent celebrity suicides such as Chris Cornell (played an amazing show...killed himself hours later), Chester Bennington (no indication he was unhappy...had a major tour starting) or even Robin Williams. Suicide is a very selfish act. It’s fallout is with the ones left behind to pick up the pieces. To blame other people or threaten other people over someone’s suicide is absurd. Instead of speculations and badmouthing everyone, let’s have a conversation about suicide and suicide prevention. Reach out, ask a person if they need help because clearly a person who feels the need to end their life because of situation in their life isn’t going to reach out for help. A simple “hey are you ok? Anything I can do for you or help you with” might just save a life. Placing blame won’t. No doubt this situation is awful but the amount of blame and hatred being spewed around is horrible.

I understand what you are trying to say but suicide is not a selfish act. Suicide is what happens when someone’s pain wins against their ability to cope with that pain. More often than not they think the world would be better off without them. Calling it selfish just shames victims.

Assigning blame anywhere is meaningless. Everything about this is sad.

 

[jf12]

As a fan of gossipy TSL on lighter topics, it’s so ironic and sad they get this kind of reaction on actually responsibly revealing truths that are important for the skating community to come to light and deal with.

 

[matscol]

While I agree with the spirit of this tweet (for reasons I won't elaborate on here), I don't think there is any evidence that it was a coach or skater who made the threat(s). Many people—fans and non-fans of figure skating alike—are using this case in their personal crusade against #MeToo.

Which isn't to say that it wasn't a skater or a coach who made the threats. But I don't think we should operate under that assumption.

The tweet clearly did NOT suggest a skater or coach made threats. It said skaters and coaches are acting in a way that is violation of the USFS code of conduct and should be disciplined accordingly. A follow-up specifically used the word 'incitement', which the daily mail article, just to use one example, most certainly was.

https://twitter.com/HirotoMats/status/1087927540415635456

 

[twirlingblades]

As a fan of gossipy TSL on lighter topics, it’s so ironic and sad they get this kind of reaction on actually responsibly revealing truths that are important for the skating community to come to light and deal with.

Right? For as gossipy as TSL can get, Dave (and Jonathan) handle heavy topics really well (gymnastics, mental health issues, etc). It’s sad that THIS is what got such heavy backlash.

 

[bobbob]

TSL is of course not responsible, at all, for anyone's suicide. Suicide is a personal decision, a tragic one. But the possibility exists that John would not have taken his own life without the increased gossip and rumors that came with TSL's reporting. Additionally, the fact that TSL ramped up their reporting after John passed gives the impression that their goal is not to empower the accusers, who were front and center before John's death. After John's death the reporting became more about him.

Although they themselves did not do anything wrong, a lot of rumors/gossip/etc. stemmed from Dave's reporting and its poor timing, so I think it is a smart idea for him to take a break. I am glad to see they are becoming a little more sensitive to the situation.

Death threats are always unacceptable.

 

[merrymolar]

TSL is of course not responsible, at all, for anyone's suicide. Suicide is a personal decision, a tragic one. But the possibility exists that John would not have taken his own life without the increased gossip and rumors that came with TSL's reporting. Additionally, the fact that TSL ramped up their reporting after John passed gives the impression that their goal is not to empower the accusers, who were front and center before John's death. After John's death the reporting became more about him.

Although they themselves did not do anything wrong, a lot of rumors/gossip/etc. stemmed from Dave's reporting and its poor timing, so I think it is a smart idea for him to take a break. I am glad to see they are becoming a little more sensitive to the situation.

Death threats are always unacceptable.

I'm no fan of TSL but they can't be made responsible for the actions of others. People were always going to speculate about the reason(s) for the restriction. The speculation was going to happen regardless of who reported be it TSL or NYT.

 

[Haikush]

Even though I found Dave to be annoying and disagreed with him at least he was getting skating out there. Darn

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

As if I needed a reminder why I don’t visit twitter or YouTube comment sections. I’m not a fan of TSL and I’ll spare everyone my reasons why. No one deserves death threats and to have untruthful gossiping about them spread all over the place. Not Dave...not anyone!!

I feel bad for Dave myself. Yes I have my opinions on the show’s content but it’s never been anything personal. I’m not sure if he’s exposed himself to legal liability or not but I doubt that’s why he pulled his content down. That’s not how the internet works. It’s almost for certain that it is backed up somewhere and completely recoverable. They were probably advised to take this action until things calm down. I just hope he can get some space and rise above these despicable threats in time.

There is a difference between disagreeing with someone and disrespecting them.

 

[DSQ]

I’m thoroughly ashamed of the skating community today.

If this is the reaction Dave is getting I just hope to god that the USFSA is doing their duty and protecting the skaters at US Nationals this week, I really do.

 

[LynsJ]

That’s so terrible that he received death threats. No one should have to endure that. It’s totally unacceptable. [emoji853]