Davis and Smolkin making move to IAM

[IceDancingQueen]

I mean direct rival teams have trained and thrived in IAM for years like V/M, P/C etc. Moreover, D/S aren't even close to any of those for current teams to be really worried about unless their feelings is due to prejudice, personal or political or what ever it is that prevents them from being professional then it is their issue and not IAM to canoodle them.

Oh yes I completely agree - I wasn’t talking about the direct competition as IAM teams are used to that, I was talking more about the baggage that a former Russian ice dance team linked so closely to Russian Fed shenanigans because of Eteti might bring to the atmosphere of the practice rink.

You are right, it’s not for IAM to canoodle them - I made the comment as I’m not sure how well Russian ice dance teams vibe with other ice dance teams in general (I love a lot of Russian ice teams so again think this is more of a symptom of Russian Fed shenanigans).

For example I know Nadia Bashynksa said she was enjoying not having to listen to Russian teams talk smack about her in front of her face when they didn’t realise she could understand them. Im sure Diana and Glen are lovely people, I’m just saying the Russians, for better or worse, bring a lot of baggage and that can have an affect on practice atmosphere. IAM obviously thinks this won’t be the case!

 

[IceDancingQueen]

Not that I'm expecting this to happen but has IAM ever told a team of theirs to leave? I know a couple teams have left of their own volition,
But have MF and company ever fired a team because things didn't work out?

Oh interesting question. I think it may be hard to know cause they could have but then it has been presented publicly that it was the team’s decision to leave.

 

[Kittosuni]

Oh yes I completely agree - I wasn’t talking about the direct competition as IAM teams are used to that, I was talking more about the baggage that a former Russian ice dance team linked so closely to Russian Fed shenanigans because of Eteti might bring to the atmosphere of the practice rink.

You are right, it’s not for IAM to canoodle them - I made the comment as I’m not sure how well Russian ice dance teams vibe with other ice dance teams in general (I love a lot of Russian ice teams so again think this is more of a symptom of Russian Fed shenanigans).

IAM have been dealing/coordinating with numerous Feds like France, Canada, USA etc in behalf of their skaters so I am pretty sure they are familiar with every type of shenanigans in the book these Federations/individuals try to pull in favor of their skaters.

D/S have been living and training all their senior career life in North America so I am sure they are accustomed of this life now. If any of their new teammates in IAM can't stand them for what ever reason then they really can't do anything about that.

At the end of the day, Eteri is still Diana's mother and she will advocate for her daughter. You will see her cheering at the audience, coordinating to MFD and IAM regarding D/S training progression etc.

This might be hard to swallow for some but, when IAM accepted D/S in their group, that means that they are going to back them up and advocate for them to reach their goals as what they do with all of their skaters.

 

[4everchan]

It is true that the top Georgian skaters from singles to pairs are all easily top 10 materials and can contend for medals if they hit but they are indeed inconsistent. On top of that they have zero depth that if one skater gets injured then the whole team is screwed.

Also, if comparing directly with Canada... Well, at least Canada will get good points in dance and normally, would be ahead of Georgia in Pairs... though that's not guaranteed (pairs) For men and women, it's a toss up but in the team event, with only ten teams, with the top spots unlikely to go to Georgia nor Canada, where does Georgia make enough points to qualify for the finals if they don't do top 3 in dance and pairs and not likely in men and women ? They'd need exactly that, perfect consistency across all disciplines to beat teams that are unbalanced like Canada.

I'm curious what exactly did MFD said about Eteri? or is it more like implied and just interpreted by fans?

It was a CBC article. MFD was interviewed. I think I shared it here even.. but I cannot trace it for now. It's no gossips or fan fiction, it was a real interview.

 

[el henry]

Marie-France directly and in quotes criticized Eteri. Of course I know this only because @4everchan kindly linked to the article.

One thing I do refuse to believe is that IAM or Marie-France or Patrice will allow Eteri any input whatsoever into training. Not after what Marie-France said.

But people change, so who knows?

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Marie-France directly and in quotes criticized Eteri. Of course I know this only because @4everchan kindly linked to the article.

One thing I do refuse to believe is that IAM or Marie-France or Patrice will allow Eteri any input whatsoever into training. Not after what Marie-France said.

But people change, so who knows?

In addition, people sometimes aren't honest to begin with. IAM has more PR presence than pretty much any other top ice dance school that I know of, and they have an image they want to portray. And similarly the athletes there (and most other schools) try to protray their image in a certain way, in how they post on social media and act in interviews.

I'm not accusing anybody of being dishonest, just simply stating that you can't take anything at face value. And thet goes for every single coach/skater/person within the sport, not just montreal. Things in reality can (not necessarily will) be very different from what the general public perceive.

I don't think eteri will have a say in the training, because there is no benefit to it. Eteri (or Gorgian fed?) will be paying an absolute fortune for the training, you may as well leave it up to the coaches you are spending that much money for. Eteri doesn't allow parents to interfere in her students training, I doubt she'd be the first to interfere in her daughter's training.

 

[el henry]

In addition, people sometimes aren't honest to begin with. IAM has more PR presence than pretty much any other top ice dance school that I know of, and they have an image they want to portray. And similarly the athletes there (and most other schools) try to protray their image in a certain way, in how they post on social media and act in interviews.

I'm not accusing anybody of being dishonest, just simply stating that you can't take anything at face value. And thet goes for every single coach/skater/person within the sport, not just montreal. Things in reality can (not necessarily will) be very different from what the general public perceive.

I don't think eteri will have a say in the training, because there is no benefit to it. Eteri (or Gorgian fed?) will be paying an absolute fortune for the training, you may as well leave it up to the coaches you are spending that much money for. Eteri doesn't allow parents to interfere in her students training, I doubt she'd be the first to interfere in her daughter's training.

I think I have a pretty good PR detector.

This was not a one off quote carefully crafted in response to a question. This was a long form article on IAM as a whole where topics of the day arose organically (the article was close to the 2022 Olympics). This is not a perception, but words that were in quotes from a Québécois journalist. Unless the journalist mistranscribed, she said it. I am not inside anyone's head, but the way she said it, and the words she used, seemed heartfelt to me. I was actually impressed with how raw and honest it seemed.

But that was then, this is now.

 

[elbkup]

So many interesting points of view here; I liked D/S RD this season so am over the top curious how they will do in this new training environment.. I am guessing MF is all about inclusion and probably sees potential in them in addition to financial advantage. DD is not her mother so, as long as she and Gleb are serious about their training learning and growing under her guidance she made the best decision… time will tell

 

[Weathergal]

Oh yes I completely agree - I wasn’t talking about the direct competition as IAM teams are used to that, I was talking more about the baggage that a former Russian ice dance team linked so closely to Russian Fed shenanigans because of Eteti might bring to the atmosphere of the practice rink.

You are right, it’s not for IAM to canoodle them - I made the comment as I’m not sure how well Russian ice dance teams vibe with other ice dance teams in general (I love a lot of Russian ice teams so again think this is more of a symptom of Russian Fed shenanigans).

For example I know Nadia Bashynksa said she was enjoying not having to listen to Russian teams talk smack about her in front of her face when they didn’t realise she could understand them. Im sure Diana and Glen are lovely people, I’m just saying the Russians, for better or worse, bring a lot of baggage and that can have an affect on practice atmosphere. IAM obviously thinks this won’t be the case!

As far as baggage/shenanigans go, I don't think the I.AM school will tolerate it -- that's not to imply I think Davis/Smolkin will cause any. I remember reading an interview with Madison Hubbell where she talked about the move to I.AM, and she mentioned Patrice in particular talking about the expectations the school has for skaters' behavior. The gist of it was -- I.AM wants things to be "drama free" at their school. (Dance is dramatic enough LOL)

 

[lariko]

Georgia doesn't have the most stable single skaters either. I think Italy is in better position (with USA and Japan)
Also, my comment was a joke in the sense that i never expected IAM to take them considering what MFD has said about ET... so what's next ? That's why I suggested sarcastically another switch of citizenship, one that is very not likely to happen for a billion factors

You know many consistent skaters? I assume only the contention for bronze, since gold and silver is spoken for by Japan/USA

 

[4everchan]

You know many consistent skaters?

Well, that's the point. How would Georgia be so much ahead of anyone else for the third place when they are not more consistent than others and on top of that, they do not have a top three prospect in any discipline. Even at IAM, I don't see DS rising over that many teams to make a difference in the team event. MB, in pairs, might do so but it's not a given.

I assume only the contention for bronze, since gold and silver is spoken for by Japan/USA

 

[lariko]

Well, that's the point. How would Georgia be so much ahead of anyone else for the third place when they are not more consistent than others and on top of that, they do not have a top three prospect in any discipline. Even at IAM, I don't see DS rising over that many teams to make a difference in the team event. MB, in pairs, might do so but it's not a given.

Canada: one pair which might or might not be able to compete in Oly since they are pushing physical limitations; dance is covered, no men, no women
France: one man and, potentially a decent Ice dance, no pair, no women
Italy: unclear situation with men, no woman, dance is covered, pairs are weakening in current field
Germany: pairs strong enough to play spoiler in pairs event, but no other disciplines
Georgia: all relatively strong disciplines, providing the smaller pool in teams that takes out a lot of nations with mavericks in singles disciplines, despite not having any top contenders

Conclusion: Georgia's chances are strong, though the judges will be favoring the Italians

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Italy: unclear situation with men, no woman, dance is covered, pairs are weakening in current field

Inconsistent pairs, not weak. There were 2 teams at GPF (1 silver medal),
european champion & Bronze medallists, but bad performances at worlds holding them back.

Memola in men also a little inconsistent, with the question about Rizzos form on his return.

There aren't many promising senior Women other than Sarina Joos (who is inconsistent and far behind gubanova), but some potentially promising juniors who will be seniors (and potential foreign imports).

Dance is not necessarily covered, everybody is waiting to see what G/F decide.

 

[4everchan]

Canada: one pair which might or might not be able to compete in Oly since they are pushing physical limitations; dance is covered, no men, no women

I think the biggest obstacle for Deanna now is citizenship requirements. I wouldn't put age as the biggest hurdle if that's what you mean by physical limitation. Also, don't forget that pairs is relatively deep in Canada. For the team event, pair number 2 could be fine.
For men : I think wesley can evolve nicely in two years. So I expect 3 disciplines to be relatively good.

France: one man and, potentially a decent Ice dance, no pair, no women

Correct

Italy: unclear situation with men, no woman, dance is covered, pairs are weakening in current field

I think Italy is better than you are saying. Joos did well and juniors are strong. Memola is young but Rizzo will probably return. Pairs are much stronger than what they showed at Worlds. Dance : I expect GF to keep competing until MIlano... but you know, sometimes it doesn't work out that way. Jeff Buttle won worlds in 2008 and decided to not go to home games in Vancouver. So we will see. But games in Italy could be the biggest motivator for the entire team. In Vancouver, Canadians did better than expected... and it wasn't due to judging. Too bad there was no team event back then.

Germany: pairs strong enough to play spoiler in pairs event, but no other disciplines

That's correct

Georgia: all relatively strong disciplines, providing the smaller pool in teams that takes out a lot of nations with mavericks in singles disciplines, despite not having any top contenders

Relatively is a big word here. Gubanova is capable of the best but also the worst. She barely qualify for the LP at worlds. She will never get top marks because her skating is unidimensional. Maddie beat her at quite a few events in the past, so Canada's worse discipline is able to take out Georgia's stronger competitor... Nika is a wild card. Berulava worries me. So if anything, David and Smolkin have a lot of teams ahead of them to make good points... USA, Canada, Italy, France, Korea and potentially Korea. They are lucky Lithuanian and Great Britain will not qualify a team but Finland has a very far shot, outside shot... and could put D/S further down. Also, Japan in dance looks further now but the younger teams could make a huge leap in a couple years. So, while other nations dance is relatively guaranteed for the team event, we don't know about Davis and Smolkin... and IAM will be interesting since they are in the same pool as so many of these team, especially the Koreans.

Conclusion: Georgia's chances are strong, though the judges will be favoring the Italians

that's your conclusion My conclusion is that Georgia will finish anywhere between 4th and 6th.


I allude to it in my post... but what do you guys think about Koreans vs D/S both at IAMs... who will rise ?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Italy: unclear situation with men, no woman, dance is covered, pairs are weakening in current field

This discussion deserves its own thread. I agree with the posters who have pointed out that the situation for men in Italy is not necessarily 'unclear.' If you are speaking of how Matteo Rizzo might rebound after surgery, he has an entire season to work out the kinks. Nikolaj Memola and Gabriele Frangipani are both strong competitors who can land quads. Both had decent seasons and good showings at Worlds. Memola was new to seniors, so judges tend to hold back a bit on the scores for newbie seniors. I do not think Memola is inconsistent, just young. He will have another season to get stronger competitively before the Olympics.

As you indicate, I think the judges will be kind to Italian skaters since the '26 Olympics takes place in Milan. The Italians are revving up in preparation. The Italian pairs teams will definitely be strong contenders for a podium spot at the Olympics. Just because they did not get a third team spot in pairs this year does not mean they are 'weakening,' or that they won't secure a 3rd spot at next year's Worlds. Perhaps their strongest team, Ghilardi/ Ambrosini were not sent to Worlds this year, which I think was a mistake. G/A had two crowd-pleasing programs this season, choreographed by Luca Lanotte. They were missed at Worlds.

France is obviously strong in men and ice dance but lack top-contending women and pairs. Thus, probably they are a long shot for a team medal. Still, in a team competition Lorine Schild could beat a subpar Gubanova or Schizas. And, by 2026, French pairs teams could be stronger. No question, Canadian dance and pairs are top medal contenders. The wild cards for Canada will be their men and women. While there is excellent talent in both disciplines, the question will be whether or not they are able to deliver.

Georgia has decent men, women, pair, and ice dancers. However, they have no proven star podium contender in any of these disciplines. They have M/B who could be on the podium in pairs, but there are too many good pairs teams for that to be a slam dunk. In a small sample team competition, Georgia's pairs and ice dance teams could do fairly well. Their men and women are talented and competitive, but also inconsistent.

The strongest contenders for bronze in the team event are Italy, Canada, and Georgia, with France in the mix. South Korea is strong in singles and has a competitive team in ice dance, so they should be in the mix, too.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Gubanova is capable of the best but also the worst. She barely qualify for the LP at worlds. She will never get top marks because her skating is unidimensional. Maddie beat her at quite a few events in the past, so Canada's worse discipline is able to take out Georgia's stronger competitor... Nika is a wild card. Berulava worries me.

I don't think Gubanova can be counted out, despite her inconsistencies. With her, it is hit or miss. Maddie would have to bear down, and step up to the plate with greater confidence and consistency. On any given day, either lady could beat the other. This past season, I believe Gubanova had some good results, possibly overall better than Maddie, even though Gubanova had problems at Worlds. Gubanova is not my favorite skater, while Maddie could be a boss, if she believes in herself and balances control with abandon and aggressive risk-taking.

Nika Egadze is not my cup of tea. He is not memorable and his aesthetics are weak. But he's actually competed very well this past season, except at Worlds when he ran into the boards (not taking account of the narrower rink). In any case, evidence shows that for some reason (probably his quads), the judges appear to love Egadze when he just skates boringly clean. He gets a bit overscored on PCS, because he's a quadster.

Metelkina/ Berulava came together quickly and competed well this season, especially at the start. It was impressive how well they competed for a new partnership. But the thing is (as a team with senior-level skills and experience), they were cleaning up against juniors for most of the season. Their programs were a bit too cutesy overall, and did not hold up in terms of appeal by the end of the season, at least not for me. Plus, once they had to face seniors at a similar level of competence and ability, they flinched. They also didn't skate well in the free program at junior Worlds, where they won due to having overly high points in the sp. Metelkina was inconsistent with her former partner in seniors, Danill Parkman (now skating with KMcBeath for USA). After a high-flying start to her partnership with Berulava, it was Metelkina who faltered the most when it mattered. M/B will be contenders going forward, but they are not one of my favorite pairs teams.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

It seems many European teams are at Young Goose. I'm not well versed in ice dance enough to really understand the differences in the skaters produced by Iam and Young Goose. Are these two schools comparable? What are the main differences between the skaters coming out of either school?

Also, I know IAm has several European teams in addition to North American and Asian teams. Does Young Goose have any non-European teams?

Weren't Young Goose in the process of crumbling?
In any case they are much smaller. Oh, and the thing IAM really excels at (other than fs politics) is choreo and packaging; I have not seen that level coming from Italy.

YGA was just restructuring last year or so. Since singles coaches like Lorenzo Magri and Angelina Turenko left, it's basically just Matteo Zanni's ice dance teams now.

IAM has the edge in choreography, but I would say the Egna teams' signature is their skating skills, specifically speed and power. IAM teams generally have good flow and glide but their quality in this regard has been quite variable (e.g. ice coverage of Hubbell/Donohue vs Chock/Bates). Zanni's teams are quite fast across the board. Even teams that joined him 1-2 years ago, like the Cyprus kids and the other Georgians, have improved in this aspect.

Both the skaters and the school itself are very young. I think they have the potential to grow in future as the staff build more experience and the teams establish more of a reputation with judges and audiences. At least, I really hope so, because I like seeing coaching teams with a variety of approaches to ice dance.

 

[4everchan]

I don't think Gubanova can be counted out, despite her inconsistencies. With her, it is hit or miss. Maddie would have to bear down, and step up to the plate with greater confidence and consistency. On any given day, either lady could beat the other.

Maddie has beaten Gubanova before and can do it again. Gubanova is very bland and not only she is inconsistent but even when she is clean, she doesn't have the sparkle others have. I felt so before but watching her 3 times at worlds(practice and both programs) hasn't convinced me that she is "special". Sorry not sorry.

Nika Egadze is not my cup of tea. He is not memorable and his aesthetics are weak. But he's actually competed very well this past season, except at Worlds when he ran into the boards (not taking account of the narrower rink). In any case, evidence shows that for some reason (probably his quads), the judges appear to love Egadze when he just skates boringly clean. He gets a bit overscored on PCS, because he's a quadster.

He is slightly less bland than Gubanova. But meh.

Metelkina/ Berulava came together quickly and competed well this season, especially at the start. It was impressive how well they competed for a new partnership. But the thing is (as a team with senior-level skills and experience), they were cleaning up against juniors for most of the season. Their programs were a bit too cutesy overall, and did not hold up in terms of appeal by the end of the season, at least not for me. Plus, once they had to face seniors at a similar level of competence and ability, they flinched. They also didn't skate well in the free program at junior Worlds, where they won due to having overly high points in the sp. Metelkina was inconsistent with her former partner in seniors, Danill Parkman (now skating with KMcBeath for USA). After a high-flying start to her partnership with Berulava, it was Metelkina who faltered the most when it mattered. M/B will be contenders going forward, but they are not one of my favorite pairs teams.

Yup... thanks for elaborating. I kept my post short because of the slight off-topic but in any case, I don't see Georgia on the podium yet for the team event.

If Korea could get a pairs team... if only... but yeah..nobody took my invitation... what are your predictions about Lim and Quan versus Davis and Smolkin now that they are both at IAM ?

BTW I vaguely remember that Weaver and Poje approached IAM to train there and were denied... At the time, I felt it was normal as Virtue and Moir were there... and the French etc

but gosh.. it makes me feel weird that IAM would have denied them and now is accepting DS..

but as @el henry said, back then is back then, and now is now.

 

[icewhite]

YGA was just restructuring last year or so. Since singles coaches like Lorenzo Magri and Angelina Turenko left, it's basically just Matteo Zanni's ice dance teams now.

IAM has the edge in choreography, but I would say the Egna teams' signature is their skating skills, specifically speed and power. IAM teams generally have good flow and glide but their quality in this regard has been quite variable (e.g. ice coverage of Hubbell/Donohue vs Chock/Bates). Zanni's teams are quite fast across the board. Even teams that joined him 1-2 years ago, like the Cyprus kids and the other Georgians, have improved in this aspect.

Both the skaters and the school itself are very young. I think they have the potential to grow in future as the staff build more experience and the teams establish more of a reputation with judges and audiences. At least, I really hope so, because I like seeing coaching teams with a variety of approaches to ice dance.

thanks for the explanation

I really like teams with speed and oustanding skating skills!

 

[4everchan]

thanks for the explanation

I really like teams with speed and oustanding skating skills!

IAM has had some of these too you know Hubbell Donohue for starters. Virtue and Moir. Lajoie and Lagha. What IAM is especially good at is recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of their teams and showcase the first very well while hiding the latter brilliantly, for instance with great choreo, tricks and gimmicks If the Italian academy wants to compete, they will need to learn how to do the same.