2015 Europeans Men's Free Skate, Jan. 30

[Interspectator]

Geez. I actually managed to watch this (last two groups) with some friends, who don't follow figure skating, and I'm saddened that this was their introduction :disapp:

They liked Righini and Bychenko the best, but were unimpressed with the others. I think they actually preferred Voronov and Kovtun's skating to Fernandez :hopelessness:. Oh, and they didn't like Brezina's costume, but thought Voronov's was OK? I guess FS really is subjective...

I did perhaps persuade them to watch Ladies and Pairs FS (maybe), so all is not lost...

So sorry about that!
I'm trying to be more positive about all this so: Kovtun's new costume is better IMO than the blue spiderman costume.
Javi did better here 'over all' than at GPF and Vornov has his second major international medal this year. Hooray!

I feel for Bychenko though. Although his style is not one I like, he laid down the cleanest performance of the night. I think if the judges were really paying attention, the could have given him the scores for bronze.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Imo, Boitano and Urmanov had better-looking jumps than Kovtun's. They're not only tall, but skated in the '80s and '90s.

With all due respect to Boitano and Urmanov, how many quads did they land (not to mention 2 different ones).

Yes Kovtun's posture into his quads isn't pretty but it's reliable and every other part of the jump other than his takeoff posture is solid -- not to mention unlike most men, he puts transitions on his quad landings. His axel isn't the quality of Hanyu or Han (few are) but it's on par with Fernandez and is usually pretty consistent.

I think people are hard on Kovtun because they love to hate him. He could skate perfectly (eg TEB FS) and people will still hate on his skating.

Congrats to Javi for the well-deserved win, but with all the doubled jumps and errors and almost 90 PCS we're going to have to start finding a portmanteau to describe his newfound inflation to go with Hanflation and inflation... I guess Fernanflation?

 

[HanDomi]

With all due respect to Boitano and Urmanov, how many quads did they land (not to mention 2 different ones).

Yes Kovtun's posture into his quads isn't pretty but it's reliable and every other part of the jump other than his takeoff posture is solid -- not to mention unlike most men, he puts transitions on his quad landings. His axel isn't the quality of Hanyu or Han (few are) but it's on par with Fernandez and is usually pretty consistent.

I think people are hard on Kovtun because they love to hate him. He could skate perfectly (eg TEB FS) and people will still hate on his skating.

Congrats to Javi for the well-deserved win, but with all the doubled jumps and errors and almost 90 PCS we're going to have to start finding a portmanteau to describe his newfound inflation to go with Hanflation and inflation... I guess Fernanflation?

Did you became fan of Kovtun ?

Seriously I think people are not hating Kovtun as a person at all.. or maybe some are, it's just his skating. I don't know. Let take presetation , ss on the side. But his jumps looks awfull to be honest, his landings are so stiff. And I don't think it is problem with technique. I think it is problem with his whole body. He is generally very stiff in movement

 

[Sandpiper]

With all due respect to Boitano and Urmanov, how many quads did they land (not to mention 2 different ones).

Yes Kovtun's posture into his quads isn't pretty but it's reliable and every other part of the jump other than his takeoff posture is solid -- not to mention unlike most men, he puts transitions on his quad landings. His axel isn't the quality of Hanyu or Han (few are) but it's on par with Fernandez and is usually pretty consistent.

I think people are hard on Kovtun because they love to hate him. He could skate perfectly (eg TEB FS) and people will still hate on his skating.

Congrats to Javi for the well-deserved win, but with all the doubled jumps and errors and almost 90 PCS we're going to have to start finding a portmanteau to describe his newfound inflation to go with Hanflation and inflation... I guess Fernanflation?

I said they had "better-looking jumps" than Kovtun, not that they were "better jumpers." Just like I think Johnny Weir has a better-looking triple axel than Timothy Goebel, but I'd never say Weir was the better jumper. (Btw, Urmanov has landed quads, and Boitano made a few attempts of his own. Not bad for guys from the '80s and '90s).

I was only disputing the theory one poster put forward: That Kovtun's "weird technique" ("weird", not "bad") had to do with his height. There are many skaters present and past who are tall, and pretty much none of them needed to twist around their upper body to go into a jump.

 

[Idontsk8]

Just watched the final group and unfortunately it was quite lackluster but happy for the medalists. Overall I think it was deserved.

Javi seemed to be very tired and somehow the choreography was more bland than I remember. Good for him for the 3rd title!

Is it just me or Kovtun has improved his posture and skating from the GPF quite considerably? Don't know if it's from the new costume Nice to see but still lots of iffy landings. And is it just me or Kovtun reminds someone of the squirrel from Ice Age? :shocked:

About Voronov...well he's cool but the program lack in transitions is quite troublesome. Anyway great first jumps and cool attitude.

Brezina...oh my one cannot ever catch a break with him, I love the program and his costume is to die for but these falls and pops...these nerves...

Now hoping for a great ladies competition tomorrow

 

[TMC]

I don't think the problem is the quad, honestly. The majority of failed jumps are triples, most of the times.

It could be, partially. I mean the quad is so draining that there's less energy left for the other jumps. Doing two quads in the beginning must make it so much harder to get those triples done cleanly as well?

ETA: I see you already replied to a similar comment - I don't want to go from 3 to 0 quads either, of course. And if you're one of those rare skaters who can do 3 and still get the rest of the program done then by all means jump away. But perhaps some of these men would do better to have - as an example - one beautiful quad or quad combo in each segment as an exhilarating highlight in the beginning, and then they'd have energy to perform through the rest?

I've never jumped a quad or a double so I don't know how draining it is, that's just what I keep hearing from people like Michael Weiss. But it does seem to be a bit of a pattern that if there are multiple quads, the rest of the jumps may suffer?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Did you became fan of Kovtun ?

Seriously I think people are not hating Kovtun as a person at all.. or maybe some are, it's just his skating. I don't know. Let take presetation , ss on the side. But his jumps looks awfull to be honest, his landings are so stiff. And I don't think it is problem with technique. I think it is problem with his whole body. He is generally very stiff in movement

I'm a fan of difficulty and as such I'm a fan of Kovtun. His skating is a bit stiff, but TBH Machida and Ten (and Hanyu's/Javier's SPs) are the only men's skates that I've been really digging this season.

I'm also a sucker for skaters who everyone hates on and wants to see fail actually sticking it to their haters. (even if its someone bratty like Kovtun). It's funny when people hate a skater and to the frustration of their critics gets good results. I don't think Voronov is at all a better skater, but IMO people seem to side with him not because he's a particularly amazing skater but simply because they want to see Kovtun lose.

 

[HanDomi]

It could be, partially. I mean the quad is so draining that there's less energy left for the other jumps. Doing two quads in the beginning must make it so much harder to get those triples done cleanly as well?

The quad is easy target to blame. It is exhausting but many skaters are struggling also with 3A, and do we have to blame 3A as the problem of everything ? I don't think so. As I always say, there always have been the same that only two guys in the world were nailing quads well, and rest was trying and most time failing to do it. You can't expect that all men who are attempting quads will land them

 

[HanDomi]

I'm a fan of difficulty and as such I'm a fan of Kovtun. His skating is a bit stiff, but TBH Machida and Ten (and Hanyu's/Javier's SPs) are the only men's skates that I've been really digging this season.

I'm also a sucker for skaters who everyone hates on and wants to see fail actually sticking it to their haters. (even if its someone bratty like Kovtun)

Well, I am most of time laughing at hating Kovtun and having jokes of that, because overall there is no problem for me with him. He can't win with skaters who have more qualities in everything unless they will fail. I am fan of difficulty too, but he is the only one case that I can't enjoy his quads, I am trying, but I can't . Maybe quad toe only a litt,e but his quad sal - my eyes are bleeding
Maybe his programs this year making things worse for me watching him. I think his SP last year had more emotions

 

[TMC]

The quad is easy target to blame. It is exhausting but many skaters are struggling also with 3A, and do we have to blame 3A as the problem of everything ? I don't think so. As I always say, there always have been the same that only two guys in the world were nailing quads well, and rest was trying and most time failing to do it. You can't expect that all men who are attempting quads will land them

Eh? What did I say about 3As?

Of course nobody expects that.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

News flash: most skaters can't win unless better skaters fail. That's not to diminish their accomplishments earned when they capitalize on their opponents' poor performances and step up.

It's the same old story:
Hughes won Olympics only because Kwan and Slutskaya failed.
Arakawa won Olympics only because Mao didnt compete.
Hubert won Lalique that one time only because Lipinski did poorly.
C/L won worlds last year only because I/K messed up in their SD.
Mao won 2010 Worlds only because Kim was off her game.
Kostner won 2012 Worlds only because Kim wasn't there and Mao was rebuilding.
Kovtun won TEB only because Ten didnt skate as well as he could have.
Kovtun won CoC only because Hanyu had a collision.
Kovtun won Russian Nats in 2014 only because Plushenko had a bad FS.

Skater B won only because Skater A made mistakes is the worst line of thinking.

 

[HanDomi]

Eh? What did I say about 3As?

Of course nobody expects that.

I just used 3A as example. Quad is definitely taking energy out. But you can bomb program with quads and program with just triples, it depends on how you feel in THIS moment.

 

[satine]

^Mao could have bombed in Torino for all we know

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

^Mao could have bombed in Torino for all we know

And Hanyu could have bombed his CoC FS even if he hadn't collided with Han Yan.

 

[silverfoxes]

I'm also a sucker for skaters who everyone hates on and wants to see fail actually sticking it to their haters. (even if its someone bratty like Kovtun). It's funny when people hate a skater and to the frustration of their critics gets good results. I don't think Voronov is at all a better skater, but IMO people seem to side with him not because he's a particularly amazing skater but simply because they want to see Kovtun lose.

Absolutely not true in my case. Sergei's jumps look much better to my eyes, he's been more consistent for the past couple seasons, he connects more with his music (not so much today, but in general). I have said plenty of times that I have nothing against Kovtun as a person. I actually kind of like him. But I find his programs beyond boring, his jumps ugly, and I think he has been gifted high PCS one too many times. I've made peace with the fact that he is the Russian fed's darling for the foreseeable future, but I still prefer every other man on Team Russia.

 

[Eddie Lee]

News flash: most skaters can't win unless better skaters fail. That's not to diminish their accomplishments earned when they capitalize on their opponents' poor performances and step up.

It's the same old story:
Hughes won Olympics only because Kwan and Slutskaya failed.
Arakawa won Olympics only because Mao didnt compete.
Hubert won Lalique that one time only because Lipinski did poorly.
C/L won worlds last year only because I/K messed up in their SD.
Mao won 2010 Worlds only because Kim was off her game.
Kostner won 2012 Worlds only because Kim wasn't there and Mao was rebuilding.
Kovtun won TEB only because Ten didnt skate as well as he could have.
Kovtun won CoC only because Hanyu had a collision.
Kovtun won Russian Nats in 2014 only because Plushenko had a bad FS.

Skater B won only because Skater A made mistakes is the worst line of thinking.

Let's just remember that Hughes skated "lights out!" To win her Olympic gold. Also one must recall that although the Kwan and Slutskaya LP's were not typical of their usual performances, they were NOT the bungled mess that Kovton laid out today.

 

[Alba]

I don't think Voronov is at all a better skater, but IMO people seem to side with him not because he's a particularly amazing skater but simply because they want to see Kovtun lose.

As far as I'm concerned I like Voronov not because he has good programs or is an amazing skater. I've said it already that his programs are empty and his preparation to the jump is long. However, for me he is very charismatic, the quality of his jumps is much better, and he is fun. That's why I like him.

As for Kovtun I don't hate him at all. I dislike his skating and he has zero charisma, IMO. But I can see that he is trying to improve, and he can improve a lot because he is young.

 

[makaihime]

I'm in the minority but I love Amodio's FS Its weird, its fun, its different and only he could pull it off Congrats to the medalists! Especially Javier who defended his 3rd title! I'm okay with the placements but the scores are . Here's hoping that skaters that showed up today won't show up at WC's. :hopelessness:

 

[Meoima]

I don't hate Kovtun much. Because I ship him with Yuzuru. hey, don't look at me like that.
His skating is not pleasing to my eyes though.

 

[satine]

And Hanyu could have bombed his CoC FS even if he hadn't collided with Han Yan.

Absolutely. But you were listing examples to prove that

Skater B won only because Skater A made mistakes

& the Torino example clearly did not fit with the rest.