2016 NHK Trophy Ladies SP

[largeman]

I've only watched Wakaba so far (she's the only one I really care about. Her and maybe Karen Chen). Frankly I'm aghast. In what world does that lip not get an e? That was a lip of Shizuka proportions!

 

[invisiblespiral]

I just woke up and found some videos. My thoughts...

Pogorilaya: Is this the program she did wish Misha Ge? I think she should keep working with him.

Chartrand: She has a lot of energy. Shame about the 3lz, though...

Sotskova: I feel like I find her a lot more artistic than the rest of the forum does. I like this program.

Rajicova: Is a 1t+3t and a 3lz worth more than a 1t and a 3lz+2t?

Miyahara: Apart from the fall, I feel like every year she has one program I automatically love and one that grows on me. And her dress is lovely.

Choi: Unfortunately, she still bores me.

Matsuda: If a skater does backended 3lo combinations, I think I'll automatically like them.

Higuchi: This is my favorite ladies' program this season. Apart from that, shame about the 3lz...

Nagasu: I am not sure if I like this program or find it boring.

Tursynbaeva: Apart from the jump errors, than was enjoyable.

And for some reason, the person who put up the videos never uploaded Chen.

 

[MaiKatze]

Pogorilaya: Is this the program she did wish Misha Ge? I think she should keep working with him.

Yes, Scent of a Woman and Into You (her Ex this season) are choreographed by Misha. I love that her team let her do this. Great stuff. Both her and Misha often post videos of them working on these programs on Instagram. So they keep perfecting it.

 

[shyne]

Yes but Wakaba exists too. What I mean is the second she steps out of Japan Satoko is going to start getting zinged again. And then what? They should put more trust in Wakaba because with Satoko, it isn't looking too good in the future.

The future is in Marin Honda and Rika Kihira. Japan right now just need skaters who are very consistent to secure 3 spots for the Olympics.

 

[ioanna]

How is Marin Honda the future of Japan when she barely held on to the podium at Junior Nationals Almost everyone else has a stronger competitive drive than she does, from Satoko and her controversial jumps, the powerful Wakaba and even Yuna Shiraiwa.

I'm not saying she doesn't have the potential to become "the future" but right now I think she is given credit where credit isn't due.

 

[solani]

How is Marin Honda the future of Japan when she barely held on to the podium at Junior Nationals Almost everyone else has a stronger competitive drive than she does, from Satoko and her controversial jumps, the powerful Wakaba and even Yuna Shiraiwa.

I'm not saying she doesn't have the potential to become "the future" but right now I think she is given credit where credit isn't due.

I agree and I think that Satoko could be very strong, she has obviously improved some over her jumps, her edge jumps are very decent and I wouldn't count her out just yet as Japan's no.1 for the years to come because she's very good at everything except toe jumps. I just think that the pressure of being Japan's no.1 is a problem right now because she has to deliver and that hinders her improvement. I don't think that a medal at Worlds is going to happen for her this season. And I really don't think that putting the combo in the second half is a good strategy for her. But her reaction after the fall was very good and the 3L-2T combo was nice.

 

[Meoima]

How is Marin Honda the future of Japan when she barely held on to the podium at Junior Nationals Almost everyone else has a stronger competitive drive than she does, from Satoko and her controversial jumps, the powerful Wakaba and even Yuna Shiraiwa.

I'm not saying she doesn't have the potential to become "the future" but right now I think she is given credit where credit isn't due.

I'd say Marin doesn't have much better technique than Satoko.

 

[jrodlopez]

Was it just me or did it look like Mirai was constantly tipping forward in her skating today (jumps and spins especially). I know she just got the Edea boots but I don't know if that would have an impact. I'm not very knowledgeable on skating equipment so I don't know much about boot impact in skating.

 

[[email protected]]

Haha, been speaking Russian for a while and it only just now occurred to me that Я is indeed a backward R

When I saw "Toys Я us" for the first time it was very confusing because I read it as "Toys I us". Я = I in Russian.

 

[Sabrina]

I just watched 3 skaters. The first was Anna, and I am happy she managed to skate so well. I love the music and the way she dances on it. The second video was Satoko's SP. That is all about home cooking. The Lz is obviously and severely under rotated. The replay shows the toe making more than half of rotation on ice (that's why she fell).
She got 64 points. She also has a stag jump (or how is it called/bent knee split jump) that is so small, she barely leaves the ice. I know she is petite, still...
Alaine had a better Lz, better speed and height in jumps, still got 58 points. Both girls did 3L2T, and had a problem with Lz. I would give Satoko 59 points for better spins.
If girls fall, why why should we expect judges not to make similar mistakes...

 

[ioanna]

I agree and I think that Satoko could be very strong, she has obviously improved some over her jumps, her edge jumps are very decent and I wouldn't count her out just yet as Japan's no.1 for the years to come because she's very good at everything except toe jumps. I just think that the pressure of being Japan's no.1 is a problem right now because she has to deliver and that hinders her improvement. I don't think that a medal at Worlds is going to happen for her this season. And I really don't think that putting the combo in the second half is a good strategy for her. But her reaction after the fall was very good and the 3L-2T combo was nice.

Other than the pressure of being the reigning Japanese champion, she's also too focused on getting rid of underrotation calls and that's what happened today. She rushed into the jump and everything went wrong. When I rewatch her Japan Open FS I can see that she has a bit more spring into her toe jumps compared to last year but the key is to relax and not overthink things. I think her results at Skate Canada have messed with her mind a bit.

About putting the combo in the second half - I have no doubt she can do it, otherwise her team wouldn't have let her. Last season Mie Hamada was the one who insisted on keeping two 2A-3T combos in the free instead of doing 3Lz-3T. It's also the only realistic chance for her to be in the mix with the Russians so she has to challenge that combo until she pulls it off. I see it more like a long-term goal heading towards the Olympics. She also put all of her spins (her forte) in the second half and she receives bonus for all of them.

 

[solani]

Other than the pressure of being the reigning Japanese champion, she's also too focused on getting rid of underrotation calls and that's what happened today. She rushed into the jump and everything went wrong. When I rewatch her Japan Open FS I can see that she has a bit more spring into her toe jumps compared to last year but the key is to relax and not overthink things. I think her results at Skate Canada have messed with her mind a bit.

About putting the combo in the second half - I have no doubt she can do it, otherwise her team wouldn't have let her. Last season Mie Hamada was the one who insisted on keeping two 2A-3T combos in the free instead of doing 3Lz-3T. It's also the only realistic chance for her to be in the mix with the Russians so she has to challenge that combo until she pulls it off. I see it more like a long-term goal heading towards the Olympics. She also put all of her spins (her forte) in the second half and she receives bonus for all of them.

I don't think that the reason they've moved the combo into the second half is that she can do it, I think the reason is that practically every Japanese lady is doing that now. It seems to be the new Japanese strategy. Hasn't worked well for any of them in this competition. 3-3 combos are immensely difficult for the ladies. Only because Medvedeva is able to pull it off doesn't mean that it's a good strategy for everyone. If you have difficulty rotating the combo anyway the worst possible idea is doing it late in the program.

 

[chuckm]

I just watched 3 skaters. The first was Anna, and I am happy she managed to skate so well. I love the music and the way she dances on it. The second video was Satoko's SP. That is all about home cooking. The Lz is obviously and severely under rotated. The replay shows the toe making more than half of rotation on ice (that's why she fell).
She got 64 points. She also has a stag jump (or how is it called/bent knee split jump) that is so small, she barely leaves the ice. I know she is petite, still...
Alaine had a better Lz, better speed and height in jumps, still got 58 points. Both girls did 3L2T, and had a problem with Lz. I would give Satoko 59 points for better spins.
If girls fall, why why should we expect judges not to make similar mistakes...

DON'T talk about homecooking when a certain Canadian lady got 132 points for a FS with a fall on an underrotated jump, an edge call, and a turnout on a combo. 132 points for 4 clean triples!

Alaine's SP is meh and has been meh at every competition this season. It doesn't suit her, and she hasn't performed it particularly well so far. OTOH, even with a fall, Satoko's SP is charming and she performs it well. And so the PCS scores: 33.12 for Satoko and 29.28 for Alaine.

As for the TES:
3z:
Satoko 2.52
Alaine 4.20 (6.00 -1.80 for the turnout)

3lo+2t:
Satoko 7.04 +0.90 7.94
Alaine 7.04 +0.00 7.04

2a:
Satoko 3.30 +0.79 4.09
Alaine 3.63 +0.29 3.92

StSq
Satoko L4 3.90 +1.30 5.20
Alaine L4 3.90 +0.80 4.70

Spins
Satoko
FCSp4 3.20 + 0.79 3.99
LSp4 2.70 + 1.43 4.13
CCoSp4 3.50 + 0.71 4.21 Total = 12.33
Alaine
FSSp2 2.30 + 0.43 2.73
LSp4 2.70 + 0.01 2.71
CCoSP4 3.50 + 0.64 4.14 Total = 9.58

On TES, the only element where Alaine got higher points than Satoko was the 3z--where Satoko fell and Alaine had only a turnout. So Alaine had a 1.68 advantage from the 3z.

Satoko had a 0.90 advantage on the loop combo and a 0.17 edge on the 2a, cutting Alaine's advantage on the 3z to 0.61.

But on the non-jump elements, the advantage was all Satoko's: Footwork + Spins: 0.50 + 2.75 = 3.25

3.25 - 0.61 = 2.64, which equals the difference in TES between Satoko's 32.08 and Alaine's 29.44.
When you add in the PCS and subtract the -1 from Satoko's score, you get 64.20 for Satoko and 58.72 for Alaine, and it makes perfect sense.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I really don't see the big deal about Satoko falling. She's lucky she's not in 6th place considering the overall effort IMO but falls happen and she got up and pushed forward. On the other hand Wakaba's StSeq and overall footwork is rock solid. It's difficult but delivered with style and feeling. I hope Wakababy gets a medal here because she's turning into the real deal. Strong jumps, Strong steps, and good programs.

Karen Chen's 3z-3t was absolutely fueled by rocket power

 

[Biellmann]

How is Marin Honda the future of Japan when she barely held on to the podium at Junior Nationals Almost everyone else has a stronger competitive drive than she does, from Satoko and her controversial jumps, the powerful Wakaba and even Yuna Shiraiwa.

I'm not saying she doesn't have the potential to become "the future" but right now I think she is given credit where credit isn't due.

How is this relevant? She is still a junior and is going through some growth spurt. I think it's not fair to judge her and her future, she is not even a senior yet. Where was Mai Mihara at juniors? And where is she now? You just like to bash Marin, over and over again, everytime when you get the opportunity :disapp:

 

[Tolstoj]

Anna Pogorilaya -> not a perfectly clean SP, but this new Anna continues to amaze me: her second mark is deservedly growing.

Maria Sotskova -> clean SP, she improved this program from what we've seen at TDF in so many little details: more speed in the flying camel spin, she sold the stsq a little more, the 3F was huge and beautiful, the dress is stunning.

Both Satoko and Wakaba disappointed me in some way: I thought at least Satoko was trained to do different 3-3 and no they opted for the the tacky 3-2 leaving so many points. In particular Satoko without the 3-3 looks vulnerable.

Mirai Nagasu -> great comeback after Skate Canada, i like the music and the dress, i see improvements in the stsq but to be honest the choreography doesn't match the music.

Yura Matsuda -> the best japanese skater here. Good program, Unlike many users here, i like the opening with a spin or the steps sequence. The jumps maybe tight but i like the entrances on the 2a and the 3F.

Elizabet Tursynbaeva -> again slightly disappointed.. I thought this could have been her season, but those jumps continues to be tight and shaky: two years ago she was competing at juniors against Zhenya, Serafima, Masha and Wakaba, since then i don't see many improvements in her skating.

 

[ioanna]

I really don't see the big deal about Satoko falling. She's lucky she's not in 6th place considering the overall effort IMO but falls happen and she got up and pushed forward.

What's the big deal about discussing it?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

What's the big deal about discussing it?

Absolutely nothing. I was.

 

[ioanna]

Where was Mai Mihara at juniors? And where is she now?

Mai Mihara won two silver medals in the JGP and made the JGPF before she started having health problems. She has juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. So she didn't really come out of nowhere.

 

[ioanna]

Absolutely nothing. I was.

The real question is, what's the big deal about her getting overscored here? The judges don't let her anywhere near the podium if everyone else goes clean in big competitions.