This! In all honesty I would have preferred a revamped version of Javi's I Love Paris / Petit Fleur program, but I understand that his Chaplin is far better known among the general audience. So the idea of bringing back an old program with different music cut and new and improved choreography to show how far he has come since those days does probably work best with Chaplin. But they made a good decision to do it as a SP this time, and not another FS. A SP will require a different approach and dynamic.
2017-2018 Programs by Discipline
- Thread starter Mrs. P
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This! In all honesty I would have preferred a revamped version of Javi's I Love Paris / Petit Fleur program, but I understand that his Chaplin is far better known among the general audience. So the idea of bringing back an old program with different music cut and new and improved choreography to show how far he has come since those days does probably work best with Chaplin. But they made a good decision to do it as a SP this time, and not another FS. A SP will require a different approach and dynamic.
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I suspected that there will be less originality in terms of programs, tht there will be a stream of warhorses coming, but so far it's really looking like we're in for a full vintage Olympic season
As a FS viewer who is really 'a sucker' for unorthodox, bold, unexpected choices, risks taken, originality and 'out-there' factor in terms of music/take on convention, it is disappointing to see old programs brought back on the table. Saying that, I agree with chapis that they all want to give themselves the best shot to win in terms of perfecting/stabilizing technical content and execution, so using old prgrams/music - especially if it was successful in the past - will give some 'assurance' level into preparations. I would not be really surprised if Jin will keep one of his last season's programs
As for Javier - I am interested what he'll come with regarding that SP to Charlie Chaplin; there will be less time and 'space' to tell/portray a 'big story', but his SPs for me always managed to capture music's spirit, create a certain character in them and still have Javier in them. But I'm even more excited for this mysterious Spanish-themed FS...Yes, I know we had 'Malaguena' SP which played greatly on Javier's heritage as a Spaniard, but my wish would be him doing a full Flamenco variation, with that folk, local feel about it, with playing on tradition and modernity in that.
As for Yuzuru...Well, this is a disappointment for me to repeat Chopin's 'Ballade' SP, but probably for different reason that majority there - for me, it's just a pity to 'waste' Yuzuru's artistic/interpretation abilities and musicality, to not explore them more in something new (I know, there will be new FS, but still...). Chopin's SP is a beautiful, evoking program, don't get me wrong, and I think that re-using it won't make it less beautiful or ugly due to doing it alone - it just won't be that excitement factor I love to feel, that 'uncovering', discovering process thorough the season with entirely new program of a skater. I'm with 4everchan on 'Ballade' cuts in terms of giving the program new flavour, amping it - inclusion of that 'middle' part of the piece would be a novelty and spin that program into something we know, yet we want to know better I feel...And just personally, I had a wish that Yuzuru would do a SP to Prokofiev's 'March of Knights' from 'Romeo and Juliett - this is a piece I've always wanted him skate to, because he has a rare sense how to 'moderate' the drama of the music and translate it onto ice, movement to agree with the music, not let it rule,overpower the whole performance. But wishes are wishes
As a FS viewer who is really 'a sucker' for unorthodox, bold, unexpected choices, risks taken, originality and 'out-there' factor in terms of music/take on convention, it is disappointing to see old programs brought back on the table. Saying that, I agree with chapis that they all want to give themselves the best shot to win in terms of perfecting/stabilizing technical content and execution, so using old prgrams/music - especially if it was successful in the past - will give some 'assurance' level into preparations. I would not be really surprised if Jin will keep one of his last season's programs
As for Javier - I am interested what he'll come with regarding that SP to Charlie Chaplin; there will be less time and 'space' to tell/portray a 'big story', but his SPs for me always managed to capture music's spirit, create a certain character in them and still have Javier in them. But I'm even more excited for this mysterious Spanish-themed FS...Yes, I know we had 'Malaguena' SP which played greatly on Javier's heritage as a Spaniard, but my wish would be him doing a full Flamenco variation, with that folk, local feel about it, with playing on tradition and modernity in that.
As for Yuzuru...Well, this is a disappointment for me to repeat Chopin's 'Ballade' SP, but probably for different reason that majority there - for me, it's just a pity to 'waste' Yuzuru's artistic/interpretation abilities and musicality, to not explore them more in something new (I know, there will be new FS, but still...). Chopin's SP is a beautiful, evoking program, don't get me wrong, and I think that re-using it won't make it less beautiful or ugly due to doing it alone - it just won't be that excitement factor I love to feel, that 'uncovering', discovering process thorough the season with entirely new program of a skater. I'm with 4everchan on 'Ballade' cuts in terms of giving the program new flavour, amping it - inclusion of that 'middle' part of the piece would be a novelty and spin that program into something we know, yet we want to know better I feel...And just personally, I had a wish that Yuzuru would do a SP to Prokofiev's 'March of Knights' from 'Romeo and Juliett - this is a piece I've always wanted him skate to, because he has a rare sense how to 'moderate' the drama of the music and translate it onto ice, movement to agree with the music, not let it rule,overpower the whole performance. But wishes are wishes
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It's now confirmed that Tchernyshev will be the choreographer for Stepanova/Bukin's FD. SD done by I. Zhuk.
http://m.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20170527/1121030860.html
http://m.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20170527/1121030860.html
From a musical standpoint, I really dislike how people are referring to the entirety of Chopin's reportoire as a single entity. His Nocturne No. 2 and Ballade No. 1 are two very different things, so it's unfair to just lump them into a "Chopin again, ugh" mindset!
But yes, I must agree with the overall sentiment of the forum, that 3 times is too much, masterful as the program is. Even then, 4everchan is right and the program just doesn't feel quite there.
But yes, I must agree with the overall sentiment of the forum, that 3 times is too much, masterful as the program is. Even then, 4everchan is right and the program just doesn't feel quite there.
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But Yuzu did not use different pieces, it was always Ballade n. 1. It is understood that people refer to that piece.
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hwell:. Although I love his costume.
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Yes, but Mirai's SP is to a different piece, a Nocturne.
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I never thought I'd say this, but...
I can't wait for the Olympic season to be over.
I can't wait for the Olympic season to be over.
To me it feels disrespectful to the audience to use the same (very recent) program for three seasons, especially for a skater of Hanyu's stature. As one of the sport's greats with the largest fanbase in modern history of the sport, there should be a responsibility to create new works of performance art, new experiences for the audience, and thus raise the sport to new heights, both technically and artistically. It used to be that the judges looked down on recycled programs, but now that it doesn't seem to matter in PCS, it's as if he's saying "screw the inconvenience of learning new choreo, let me just focus on not popping the 4L." If that's the case, we may as well just judge the Olympics a la Tom Z's jump competition. And for all his media/sponsor obligations, I find it hard to believe that a single one would drop him or be anything less than understanding if he had to take proper time to prepare for the OLYMPIC season with new programs. I'm sorry, but for such a talented skater with all the tools and resources in the world at his disposal, this is just lazy.
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- Dec 25, 2012
It might not be a popular decision to recycle a program, but it's far from disrespectful in my opinion. And of all the reasons for choosing an old program, laziness is the not reason for it, again, in my opinion.
As a leader in the sport, and most of all as a sportsman who wants to win a gold medal, his first responsibility is to himself and what he needs to do to win. I don't think it's wrong to be disappointed in his choice of program, but what he is doing is within the rules. The past 3 seasons he's pushed the sport artistically and technically, so if he decides that for his SP this season, he's going to focus on the technical side while using a program which the judges have already indicated through their scoring, has artistic merit, then where's the disrespect? It's a calculated choice for winning at the Olympics. And as can be seen with a lot of other top skaters, both this season and in other Olympic seasons, using an older program is not anything new.
The program is hardly a jumps-only program. It's the exact opposite of that, it's packed. Besides, we don't know yet what his LP choice will be, it might be a new one. Whether this strategy will work or not this season is yet to be seen, but it's a sound strategy, and has a lot of precedent.
-However, if the ISU decides that 2 times using the same music is the limit, I won't mind either.
In the show at Fantasy on ice a lot of things had been changed around, the placement of the jumps, some of the choreo etc.
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- Feb 24, 2014
I am not sure I would put it as disrespectful to the audience, but I would put it as not focused on the audience. It is a decision focused on the judges and winning, which is very okay in its own way. He has spoiled us greatly in the past two seasons with groundbreaking artistry. I'm sure he has a vision of making Chopin "more perfect," but I personally don't feel the need to see that happen. It was good enough before to satisfy me. I feel the thrill is gone, but I do like the new exit from the 3A.
ETA: And also, the "audience" isn't a monolith—it includes some Yuzu fans who will be happy no matter what he chooses, and casual viewers who won't know the difference. It raises eyebrows among devoted watchers of fs who don't expect to see a program repeated more than once (that's me
). I would have been good with Seimei for the LP, but now I'm hoping he doesn't bring it back.
ETA: And also, the "audience" isn't a monolith—it includes some Yuzu fans who will be happy no matter what he chooses, and casual viewers who won't know the difference. It raises eyebrows among devoted watchers of fs who don't expect to see a program repeated more than once (that's me
). I would have been good with Seimei for the LP, but now I'm hoping he doesn't bring it back.
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I for one could live through eternal amounts of Seimei just so I could see that final sequence again.
I for one could live through eternal amounts of Seimei just so I could see that final sequence again.
I loved Seimei as well but I don't think he will choose that theme again for the Olympic season. POTO is more likely. I won't be sad should I be wrong though.
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Andrew updated his website today...his SP will be Moonlight Sonata by Beethoven. Choreographers: Ilona Melnichenko and Scott Brown. At least the SP won't make my ears bleed.
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- Feb 4, 2012
I think the problem with that argument is that the other skaters haven't won the Olympics before. Yuzuru is the reigning Olympic Champion. He has won the biggest price of all and wants a repeat. And this time I think it'll be much, much harder, as there are many 'potentials' instead of a 1 vs 1. People expect more from him than of the other 'top skaters', and that includes programs that don't scream 'been there, done that, playing it safe'. Defending a title is always harder than getting it in the first place.
I still have hope for his LP, as I think it is more important. The LP is the decider, not the SP. The SP is the 'Get me in the mix'.
Anna Pogorilaya skated to Anna Karenina at FaoI so this might become her SP or LP. Nothing's confirmed though, yet.
I loved Seimei as well but I don't think he will choose that theme again for the Olympic season. POTO is more likely. I won't be sad should I be wrong though.
Oh, god, no!
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Kostner skated to Ne Me Quitte Pas. I wondered if that was her new SP as it has 3 jumping passes, 3 spins, footowork sequence and is 2:50 mins long :think:
http://radikal.ru/video/gwCoF6D6kEw
Still looking for Anna's programs.
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- Dec 25, 2012
NO ONE has repeated as Olympic Champion since Dick Button in the men's division, so any plan he'd choose would still be an uphill battle against long odds. He doesn't have to convince 'people' or fans of this plan, he just needs to skate for the judges and go with what they want and skate as clean as possible.
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- Feb 4, 2012
^So judges are not people? I think you can defend that decision to repeat the SP with several arguments, as well as arguing against the decision with several arguments. In 9 months we will see if it worked out.
As far as I know there is no tv recording of Anna Karenina. We're speculating that it might be the LP, as it is something with a theme, a 'story' that builts up and is a bit too much for a SP. Seems likely, for Carolina. I think most skaters do not create two exhibition numbers, too much work.
As far as I know there is no tv recording of Anna Karenina. We're speculating that it might be the LP, as it is something with a theme, a 'story' that builts up and is a bit too much for a SP. Seems likely, for Carolina. I think most skaters do not create two exhibition numbers, too much work.
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- Feb 10, 2015
His reasoning is right, it's olys everyone goes for the safest way to maximize scores, it's not wise risking with hard layouts in both programs. He's aiming for the highest GOEs he can get, he'll do it with the sp that scored the highest in FS history, with a little upgrade on BV. He knows that if he manages to bring that content with that program he's untouchable And he's also right when he says his 4T gives him the same "quality vibes" of his 3A which is constantly on the edge of getting +3 across the board (it should get it by default anyways) How many other skaters can count on that quality of execution on such jumps?
It is Olympics and everybody recycles : Kostner medaled with 2 recycled programs, Adelina won with recycled program, Shizuka repeated Turandot in 2001,2004, 2006, Kulik won with watered down content and the list goes on....
So I repeat, I really , really wanted new program but I respect his choice and I think he is pretty calculated and analyzed pros and cons very well. Yuzuru has been always spoiling people with his versatility andhe was consistently challenging himself.. So I guess we should wait and see .. maybe if he stays after 2018 and I believe he will stick around at least for a year as wc is in Saitama we shall see more masterpieces from him.
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