2017 CS Lombardia Trophy Mens LP

[karne]

I will now proceed to have a grump about Brendan's PCS.

 

[Mrs. P]

Congrats, Shoma, Jason and Brendan!!

 

[Interspectator]

Just took a look at the results and Jason and Shoma actually spilt the PCS categories....

Shoma won in SS (9.5/9.1) and PE (9.25/9.0)
Jason won in TR (8.9/8.8) and IN (9.45/9.25)

They got the same choreography score (9.25)

Interesting. Well, I'm not sure I agree with the judges. Shoma's choreo, and transitions were pretty empty. -I'd give more of a gap between them favoring Jason. It's understandable, given the number of quads and the early season, why Shoma's program was less intense in those areas, but I wish it would reflect in the scores. Why are the judges so keen to give out 9's so early in the season? They're going to be left with nothing but 10's within the first few months of the GP series. It was like this with the ladies as well. I'm not mad or anything, all the placements seem fair, but there's going to be a problem when there's so little wiggle room in PCS. -Well, there's been a problem for the past few seasons.

 

[Yatagarasu]

And a recycled program to one of the most overused warhorses ever. I see nothing special in it (apart from the 5 quads, but give me Boyang or Yuzu who don't cheat them any day). But his fans will see what they want

Indeed. Nathan has a better technique too, if we want to talk about the group with those big quad numbers. Though indeed, they will see what they want to see! Ah well.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

:clapper: for that final group

 

[brens78]

Late to the party and oooh youtube ppl are very salty over Brendan's scores :dev2:

 

[Mirunna]

I am not very familiar with the level of the US men besides of course Nathan, but what are Jason's chances of making the team without a quad? I really, really,really want to see this LP in the Olympics!

 

[Li'Kitsu]

You do realise that Shoma's skate today was one of the best skates in the last couple of years? I can only think of some performances of Yuzuru which were better (TES ans PCS score). Again: 5 quads and 2 hard 3A combinations. And a pretty good program, skater masterfully. What more can we ask for? "other skaters look like fools"? Is there any other skater besides Yuzuru who can land 5 quads in a LP and also pay attention so the PCS side as well as Shoma does?

Well, different strokes for different folks, but I don't find a glaring lack of transitions and one foot skating, the typical stand around for 5 seconds while starring dramatically into the distance and the same OTT tango face throughout the whole skate "paying attention to the PCS". Yuzu had more complexity in his 2011 SP then Shoma had in this LP. As does Patrick for example, and to a lesser extent Javi (and then a big number of "non-top men").

And that doesn't touch the fact that not all the quads were clean.

It's impressive he landed 5 quads, and those 3A combinations, especially so early in the season - but as a whole this isn't in the same league as Javi at 2016 WC, Patrick at 2016 CoC, Yuzu at WC 2016 or NHK/GPF 2015 for me. From a first glance, I think Nathan looked more convincing at USI as well.

 

[lavenderblossom]

I will now proceed to have a grump about Brendan's PCS.

You're not alone :dev2:

 

[karne]

Does this Valley of Dreams refer to the aboriginal Dreamtime? I need to know!

I don't think so, but also, I really hope not. Just because if it is, it's a poorly-done representation and I wouldn't want Brendan to get any backlash.

(Did he have a nosebleed again?)

No! Majorov survived!

 

[Mrs. P]

Interesting. Well, I'm not sure I agree with the judges. Shoma's choreo, and transitions were pretty empty. -I'd give more of a gap between them favoring Jason. It's understandable, given the number of quads and the early season, why Shom's program was less intense in those areas, but I wish it would reflect in the scores. Why are the judges so keen to give out 9's so early in the season? They're going to be left with nothing but 10's within the first few months of the GP series. It was like this with the ladies as well. I'm not mad or anything, all the placements seem fair, but there's going to be a problem when there's so little wiggle room in PCS. -Well, there's been a problem for the past few seasons.

Yeah I agree. I'm OK with the SS gap -- Jason's SS have improved greatly over the years, but Shoma does still have better skills ther. I'd put a bigger gap for transition in Jason's favor and maybe give him the edge in choreography. I think the quad bonus kind makes sense in PE.

Even Jason seem somewhat surprised to be getting those PCS scores.

 

[karne]

Late to the party and oooh youtube ppl are very salty over Brendan's scores :dev2:

Good. they should be. That was worth more than 70 PCS.

 

[silverfoxes]

Well, 4th for Deniss isn't too shabby considering the lack of quad and the fact that he was pretty visibly nervous and a little tentative. And hosed on PCS, as well. It's just the beginning.

 

[nimi]

No! Majorov survived!

Good!

He just seemed to be doing his nosebleed choreo at a couple of points, but maybe it was to ward off the evil nosebleed demon

 

[Mrs. P]

I am not very familiar with the level of the US men besides of course Nathan, but what are Jason's chances of making the team without a quad? I really, really,really want to see this LP in the Olympics!

And with 90+ PCS, so do the judges, LOL.

I don't think we'll see a quadless FS at GP. I think this program was just far less along and they decided as a competition strategy to leave them out this time. But then again I really don't know the strategy.

I think he'll need at least ONE quad, Vincent and Nathan can rack up TES and he only has a small gap on PCS on Nathan at this point (91 here vs. 88 for Nathan at USIFC). He probably, in theory could rack up enough points to make the Olympic team...but I think he wants to land them more than probably any one else. Max is looking pretty good and can rack up those TES point (their scores were nearly comparable here with Max getting much higher TES and Jason getting higher PCS). And of course, we haven't seen Adam yet.

Pending seeing Adam at Finlandia---it's clear that Nathan, Vincent, Max and Jason are in the horse race at this point. I don't see any super dark horses yet.

 

[Interspectator]

I haven't commented on Deniss yet, Yaaay for Deniss and Brendan! Very enjoyable to watch.

 

[MaiKatze]

I don't think so, but also, I really hope not. Just because if it is, it's a poorly-done representation and I wouldn't want Brendan to get any backlash.

I remember a controversial Dance program to something aboriginal in the past. I though the spirals on his costumes seemed to hint at that, too. Well, let's see.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Well, 4th for Deniss isn't too shabby considering the lack of quad and the fact that he was pretty visibly nervous and a little tentative. And hosed on PCS, as well. It's just the beginning.

Deniss PCS make me want to sit down every single judge one after the other and ask them what on earth they think a skating blade is. You don't even have to like the kid, but his skating and performance quality is undeniable, and definitely among the best in the world. Stephanes resigned face kind of said it all.

Brendan could have done with a few more points in PCS too. But I'm super happy for him that he got a medal!

 

[Mirunna]

Well, different strokes for different folks, but I don't find a glaring lack of transitions and one foot skating, the typical stand around for 5 seconds while starring dramatically into the distance and the same OTT tango face throughout the whole skate "paying attention to the PCS". Yuzu had more complexity in his 2011 SP then Shoma had in this LP. As does Patrick for example, and to a lesser extent Javi (and then a big number of "non-top men").

And that doesn't touch the fact that not all the quads were clean.

It's impressive he landed 5 quads, and those 3A combinations, especially so early in the season - but as a whole this isn't in the same league as Javi at 2016 WC, Patrick at 2016 CoC, Yuzu at WC 2016 or NHK/GPF 2015 for me. From a first glance, I think Nathan looked more convincing at USI as well.

But the thing is that neither Javi or Patrick (whom I both love and would probably sell a piece of my soul for Javi to get an Olympic medal) go for this kind content. Even though the quality of the elements you pointed out is better than Shoma's. IMO, Yuzuru, Shoma, Nathan and Boyang are so far the ones pushing this kind of TES this far. And from this "pack" of 4, only Yuzuru on a good day can put up a better performance. And yes, Shoma has his weaknesses, but Nathan and Boyang are, IMO, behind Shoma on every aspect of their skating besides jumps. Shoma's LP is not perfect, but clearly not devoid-ed from transitions and skating from one element to another. I actually believe his program is improved from the previous version, but I might be subjective here.
Is 92 too big for Shoma today on PCS? Maybe, but not outrageous. Not more so than what other guys are receiving based solely on TES merit. At least Shoma does more than jump-jump-jump. Yes, Yuzuru does it better, and I explicitly mentioned him in my previous posts.

 

[karne]

I remember a controversial Dance program to something aboriginal in the past. I though the spirals on his costumes seemed to hint at that, too. Well, let's see.

Found it. It's actually Native American music. Which doesn't make it any better. Oh my god Morozov, what are you doing?