2018-19 Russian test skates

[rikaquegira]

I love how you can criticize Alina up in flames here but say one thing about Evgenia and you get jumped by 4 people.

How the turntables...

Tutkamysheva's attempt to be relevant is honourable but her skating remains a chore to watch.

I just saw this and thought it is a direct response to your comment:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnjmtjVH23Y/?utm_source=ig_twitter_share&igshid=kg8dh7xh1mpg

 

[yume]

Then so is Eteri letting Anna do 3 flutzes in her programs AND a 4lz

Her edge is more flat. Not a deep inside edge like Medvedeva. She should be called but with a ! rather than a "e" like Medvedeva should be.

 

[Giver]

I love how you can criticize Alina up in flames here but say one thing about Evgenia and you get jumped by 4 people.

How the turntables...

Tutkamysheva's attempt to be relevant is honourable but her skating remains a chore to watch.

Talking about Alina's flaws - "I have freedom of speech, you cannot forbid me to criticize her!"
Talking about Medvedeva's flaws - "yr hater!!!!! haters everywhere!!!!! why r u hate her????"

 

[Fluture]

I love how you can criticize Alina up in flames here but say one thing about Evgenia and you get jumped by 4 people.

How the turntables...

Tutkamysheva's attempt to be relevant is honourable but her skating remains a chore to watch.

Alina and Zhenya both had a difficult off-season no one of them has ever had before. I understand both cases. They need to get used to this and we‘ll see them shine again by the time competition arrives. And if you looked closely you could see that there are like 183727 posts dedicated to Zhenya‘s flutz which is just plain: :yawn: Of course people are going to protest against it, it‘s unnecessary and annoying and the arguments often don‘t even make sense.

Actually, I think it‘s wrong to criticize either of them so harshly but that‘s just how I feel. It‘s been a difficult season, a difficult off-season as well and here we go... our two wonder ladies aren‘t fully ready yet. Drama? No. A bit unsettling because they were always ready at the start of the season. But understandable and logical. Let‘s give them BOTH some time and see how they progress.

Tuktamysheva‘s choreographies in her programs were never my favorite and still aren’t. But I feel like she‘s making an honorable effort to engage with the audience. In some moments during her programs I feel like she‘s succeeding but sometimes I‘m not. It doesn‘t fully captivate me yet and I don‘t think it ever will. I just don‘t buy those Mishin programs. But I still hope she‘ll be doing fine this season, especially slaying that 3A. The season after the Olympic has already been hers once, maybe again?

 

[cruzceleste]

Finally got aroung to watch Elizaveta Tuktamysheva´s FS, and she obviously is ahead in the practice her choreo, I don´t like the final instrumental part of her program at the end, none the cantilever (i think) part...

Edit.

Evgenia SP´s music is more to my taste. I think the choreo is charming and she really is trying to dance... in it... I think is a program that can grow.

Alina needs a much better cut in music. In both programs, the last part sound like they didn´t even made an efford to arrange the music as if it was the end of the program, in SP it just ends like when the spotify just freeze. I hate think of me, so I could do with out it... her jumps in the SP looks really nice, but I wish that if she is gonna go for the Ina Bauer she would hold it for more than 2 seconds, and do a complete layback and in a cut of music that would provide more drama to the position.

 

[andromache]

How the turntables...

https://media.giphy.com/media/CaRrbLumDIbew/giphy.gif

 

[yume]

I love how you can criticize Alina up in flames here but say one thing about Evgenia and you get jumped by 4 people.

How the turntables...
.

Fortunately for the sport, popularity doesn't make win.

 

[[email protected]]

It's fine to flutz if she wants to, but it should be receiving reduced base value and -GOE as the rules state. You don't see Kaori Sakamoto doing 3 flutz jumps per competition - She only performs one, and tends to rightfully receive e for it. For instance, last Olympics FS Kaori Sakamoto got 4.02 points for her backloaded Flutz(BV 6.60) even though it was clean otherwise. Medvedeva got 7.60 for hers, even though it was frontloaded and clearly of lower quality overall.

Do you think Medvedeva would be doing 3 Lutz jumps if she was expecting to receive 4.02 points for them all? Of course not. Her and her team are banking on the technical panel not calling them, that's the only reason doing more than one would be a good idea. And that's not very cool in my book.

When she was only doing 1 Flutz per competition, that was around -4 points that she should have been getting per element, if not more in the negative. Now, that rarely would have cost her the competitions. But now, with 3? That's approximately 12 additional points she just hopes that the technical panel gifts her.

At the beginning of the last season it did not matter because her only expected competition Osmond had the same edge problem. So that an impartial panel had to either call them both or disregard them both. Medvedeva even had some moral advantage with only one lutz. The game was clean as no one else was a threat even if she received e calls. It all has changed with her injury and parallel Zagitova's rise. Zagitova has 3 lutzes with 2 3Lz-3Lo. If both are clean Zhenya will have hard time winning without 3 lutzes. Her pcs cushion is gone. They with Orset have to risk. I expect 4 epic competitions this season with their direct rivalry and some more with indirect. We shall look at GOE and pcs they will receive at Bs and GPs. And I don't buy 2022 story. Come on, it's about this season.

 

[yume]

Besides three 3lzs, Zagitova has also three 3Fs. While Medvedeva has three 3lzs and three 3Ts. So Zagitova's overall BV must still higher.

 

[narcissa]

And I don't buy 2022 story. Come on, it's about this season.

Why do you think so? Evgenia has already won Worlds, and they used similar strategy with Yuna Kim (Die Fliedermaus which DW said was the precursor to Bond) and Yuzuru Hanyu (NDP) to test styles/programs.

 

[Shayuki]

That is a ! in my books - absolutely nothing wrong with for me as no skater is perfect but can we at least be objective, that is not an outside edge by any means, it's flat.

... Did you even read my post? That's not what a flutz is. Also, that's a slight outside edge, whatever your book says. Good luck if you want to see !s called that strictly. I don't expect a single call this season if she performs them like that.

 

[TGee]

well at least now we know that zhenya will run it through every day and hopefully we'll see the more real version for her upcoming competition (but realtalk: I'd be panicking if that happened to me with a competition coming up)

It appears that the SP was choreographed first, then the FS. Which seems typical for TCC.

They also do the choreography in pieces, and practice sequences and leads into and out of elements more than complete run throughs. The idea is to focus on the weak parts and polish them. But if she needs more run throughs, they'll get them in.

They definitely do complete run throughs as part of their training, but less often, with pressure to be clean. On Fridays, all the skaters do run throughs with others watching. If they are clean, a large bell is rung.

 

[cruzceleste]

Sorry to ask, what happened to Pogo? Is she taking the year off? Did she retired?

 

[Watch]

Talking about Alina's flaws - "I have freedom of speech, you cannot forbid me to criticize her!"
Talking about Medvedeva's flaws - "yr hater!!!!! haters everywhere!!!!! why r u hate her????"

Maybe it's time to admit that both girls receive very harsh and unfair comments trying to pass for "just criticism" and both girls have overzealous fans defending them even against fair discussions of their respective flaws. Admit it and then stop doing it. I know for a fact that many users who complain about unfair comments towards Alina have made very ugly remarks about Evgenia on this very forum and vice versa. Let's just not behave that way and treat all these athletes with respect instead.

 

[andromache]

And I don't buy 2022 story. Come on, it's about this season.

This is the funniest theory that I have seen. If it was about this season, she wouldn’t uproot her life and change everything about her training, because it’s pretty unrealistic to dominate the field when you’re recovering from injury and transitioning into an entirely new way of training and skating.

More than winning OGM, I think Evgenia wants to be a legend. She seems to truly love the sport and find joy in it, and she wants to have the type of performances that move people and not just be one of many Eteri-bots who fades away as soon as the latest girl beats her. (I do not personally think the girls are Eteri-bots and find things to appreciate in all of their skating - but I wouldn’t be surprised if Evgenia sees it that way, and after Alina is likely surpassed next year and then Trusova/Kostornaia/Shcherbakova are surpassed by 2022, it will really be viewed as as an assembly line where only 15 year olds can win. But we will see.)

Obviously what she has accomplished so far is amazing, but you don’t create a legacy by retiring at 17. She’s going to do her best to stay in this for the long haul.

 

[[email protected]]

Why do you think so? Evgenia has already won Worlds, and they used similar strategy with Yuna Kim (Die Fliedermaus which DW said was the precursor to Bond) and Yuzuru Hanyu (NDP) to test styles/programs.

With all due respect it was much slower in Yuna Kim's time. It was even slower in Katarina Witt's time. There is revolution in women's skating going on now. I will be glad if Evgenya is still relevant in 2022. But I think it makes no sense to develop the strategy around this long-term goal. It's not only about figure skating. One of the key words in business these days is "agile". It means that we understand where we go overall but all our actions are focused on today and we are ready to quickly adapt to the fast changing environment. The time of long-term rigid strategies is gone.

I don't think Zhenya has the "luxury" to have a weak season. She has started a risky game with Orser but I agree that it made more sense than to stay in Eteri's "factory" for another 4 years.

 

[el henry]

With all due respect it was much slower in Yuna Kim's time. It was even slower in Katarina Witt's time. There is revolution in women's skating going on now. I will be glad if Evgenya is still relevant in 2022. But I think it makes no sense to develop the strategy around this long-term goal. It's not only about figure skating. One of the key words in business these days is "agile". It means that we understand where we go overall but all our actions are focused on today and we are ready to quickly adapt to the fast changing environment. The time of long-term rigid strategies is gone.

I don't think Zhenya has the "luxury" to have a weak season. She has started a risky game with Orser but I agree that it made more sense than to stay in Eteri's "factory" for another 4 years.

I think Brian’s attitude makes perfect sense if you are thinking about the skater’s long term health, long term priorities, and long term prospects.

Companies that fail to plan for the long term with the excuse, oh we must be nimble, oh we must pivot for the next big thing, fail just as much as other companies. Maybe more so.

Zhenya and Brian are in it for the long haul. They have said so and I have no reason to doubt their words

Will it succeed like throwing one young teen after another out on the ice, with new tricks and new names? That depends on your definition of success. I prefer the long tail game designed for the good of a particular skater, so I’ll stick with Brian’s definition.:thumbsup:

 

[[email protected]]

This is the funniest theory that I have seen. If it was about this season, she wouldn’t uproot her life and change everything about her training, because it’s pretty unrealistic to dominate the field when you’re recovering from injury and transitioning into an entirely new way of training and skating.

More than winning OGM, I think Evgenia wants to be a legend. She seems to truly love the sport and find joy in it, and she wants to have the type of performances that move people and not just be one of many Eteri-bots who fades away as soon as the latest girl beats her. (I do not personally think the girls are Eteri-bots and find things to appreciate in all of their skating - but I wouldn’t be surprised if Evgenia sees it that way, and after Alina is likely surpassed next year and then Trusova/Kostornaia/Shcherbakova are surpassed by 2022, it will really be viewed as as an assembly line where only 15 year olds can win. But we will see.)

Obviously what she has accomplished so far is amazing, but you don’t create a legacy by retiring at 17. She’s going to do her best to stay in this for the long haul.

Desire to be a legend has nothing to do with strategy. You seem to know a lot about what she really thinks. I never heard her say she wants to be a legend. Or you just create stories for her? Then I have my story which is no better and no worse than yours. It's just my story against yours:

She did not think much past Korea. All plans were around the OGM goal and the road was clean: she always won. Medvedeva and Eteri were aware of the critique that she uses virtually the same layout over and over again. A big self-confidence with no competition has lead to Leftovers where there was an attempt to change the layout. But it did not go well and then there was the injury. So that they decided to play it safe reverting to the old layout with Anna Karenina. So much for the desire to be a legend. Everything was about OGM. And she would have won it if it were not for her injury. She would have got the same 236 and Zagitova skating the way she skated in PC would have 225-230 competing with Osmond for silver. But in Zhenya's absense Alina for better or for worse grew her pcs drastically (well, she started to be a better skater as well).

After the "disaster" once again I see no point in the "legend" story. She wanted to prove that currently she is the best and that she will remain relevant in the next quad as a top skater. "Assembly line" of Eteri is another cliche which has nothing to do with Medvedeva's story. For Eteri it was she was just a skater of the previous 4 years because Eteri openly stated that the quad era is coming. And yes, Eteri would continue to work with Zhenya both as OGM and OSM winner. But she would be hardly her top priority the way she was before Korea. Hence, going to Orser was the right decision.

 

[Shayuki]

...If she has the time for it. She doesn't have the luxury of doing whatever she wants and getting guaranteed international spots or even status as a top skater like someone with longevity like Kostner might. If she has a poor season and doesn't even make the world championship team, what will happen to her goals?

 

[leoleo]

I wonder if people actually followed Alina last season. Did some people here only watch her (incredibly impressive) olympic performances or what? :think: Her falling and missing a few jumps is nothing new. Last year at both IDF & Cup of China she did not have perfect skates and won gold by pulling herself together in the free skate.