2015 Four Continents Short Dance Feb 12 Seoul Time

[WeakAnkles]

Getting the levels in the SD is huge for the Shibs, especially the pattern. I'm hoping we'll see a much better FD score from them. Outside of their senior Bs, they've been clocking in around 92-96. I'd like them to break 100 at least in this competition.

I think Scali has been a godsend for them.

 

[TontoK]

Mrs. P,

Who's working the technical side in Marina's camp now? Is it Margalio? Am I spelling that correctly...

Anyway... where have they been?

 

[wordsworthgirl]

See you guys over in the pairs thread! Thanks for a great discussion!

 

[slider11]

Well, obviously I am speaking for myself. I find that the crowds are generally more subdued when Chock and Bates perform. If components are based on the artistic side and the artist is unable to reach to the audience then that is a factor, or should be a factor, in the judging. When an audience leaps to its feet after a moving performance that doesn't move the judges? I appreciate Chock and Bates talents but I did not see them as the best team tonight.

This is a competition, not an ice show. And speak for yourself -- C/B look fine to my eyes. Most people don't understand Ice Dance... even most skating fans don't really understand Ice Dance fully...

 

[slider11]

Interesting observation about Scali helping the Shibs. I think you're right that he must be their technical mentor.

I think Scali has been a godsend for them.

 

[sabinfire]

Well, obviously I am speaking for myself.

Understood. Although your phrasing "What are the judges seeing that we're missing?" implies you are speaking for more than yourself, as opposed to "what am I missing?"

 

[slider11]

Ok. So you're the one person in the audience wildly clapping and standing for Chock and Bates and I and the rest of the audience are politely clapping thinking, that was ok.

Understood. Although your phrasing "What are the judges seeing that we're missing?" implies you are speaking for more than yourself, as opposed to "what am I missing?"

 

[auser]

I have posted some SD YouTube videos in the Videos and Results thread here:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...ents-Videos-and-Results&p=1097749#post1097749

 

[Astrid56]

As far as the dancing part, CB took a huge risk by not taking the traditional ice-dancing concept of Paso. From dancing perspective, theirs is more expressive, more creative ... More refreshing as it does have a storyline ... clear concept of what the dance is about. If this is a dancing competition, they would win high points for great expression, lyrical movements, great lines/technique and concept and musicality.

 

[WeakAnkles]

As far as the dancing part, CB took a huge risk by not taking the traditional ice-dancing concept of Paso. From dancing perspective, theirs is more expressive, more creative ... More refreshing as it does have a storyline ... clear concept of what the dance is about. If this is a dancing competition, they would win high points for great expression, lyrical movements, great lines/technique and concept and musicality.

:agree:

 

[tulosai]

Ok. So you're the one person in the audience wildly clapping and standing for Chock and Bates and I and the rest of the audience are politely clapping thinking, that was ok.

I think this is people who don't like C/B seeing what they want to see. I've seen them live and the audience went crazy both times. These were American audiences so I admit that, but they got a warmer applause than anyone buy Davis/White and I actually believe the only standing O in the SP at nationals last year- much warmer reception than Shibs or H/D or anyone else. In the free, the whole last group was received very well, but again, other than D/W, C/B were received the best live.

I also don't see what other people claim to when watching from the computer. I feel I've heard them cheered for plenty loudly and seen as many people standing up for them as the Shibs, certainly, on the whole.

 

[Astrid56]

It's kind of difficult to post using a tablet so here I am trying to post again. I don't to know ice-dancing very much but I am familiar with dance having done it before even competed ... and also got a degree in Theatre Arts. I love the Shibs ... WP but what makes CB such a standout in this arena is their artistry, musicality, clean lines and movements ... expression. They don't just go through the motions, they feel the movements ... the feelings they are trying to evoke ... they're artists in the truest sense of the word. Their FD is a difficult dance-concept and yet it is appealing dance-wise because they dance with their hearts ... open ... communicative, celebrating the message of the dance. By the way, their Paso is indeed a Paso, believe it or not: there are many ways to dance the dance ... it depends on the music and the concept they chose. Here's one fantastic Paso Dance - http://youtu.be/np90PSzIrY4

The Shibs have a great FD. What's missing is 'real expression' - you have to emote the dance and the intent of the dance. What made DW Olympic SD so great was their dancing expression (Derek apparently helped them with their expression and they acknowledged his input) which came from really dancing the 'dance' .... That's the magic of Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly... The latter wasn't, technically, a great dancer but his dancing was life or art in motion.

 

[Alba]

This is the truth. It has taken me since 2006 (when I started to watch dance "seriously"... before that I mostly watched the other 3 disciplines and if dance was on many I wouldn't change the channel) to come to even what I'd call a high-level BASIC understanding of the ice dance rules, key points, how you get the levels, and so on. And this has been with watching ID at every single competition, reading the rules, doing further research, hanging on dorispulaski's every word... I would still say my understanding is only high level basic.

That is true. However, skating skills is not very difficult to understand and see, and C&B are not 9s quality there.

 

[Alba]

As far as the dancing part, CB took a huge risk by not taking the traditional ice-dancing concept of Paso.

It certainly is different, and I thought their SD was the best when I saw them at Nebelhorn. I still think theirs is better than W&P program, but not among my favorites.

 

[Alba]

Is that a common criticism of them? I feel I've heard it a couple of times. (Sorry, I'm still learning ice dance)

To put it mildly, twizzles is not W&P forte. How do they get +2 and +3 is beyond comprehension.

Protocols: http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2015/fc2015_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

Twizzles only a level 2 for W/P... that was the decider. And their Paso levels were lower than the top 2 teams. They were 4 points less BV.

Actually their paso level is 3. Same as at the GPF and to C&B. Only the Shibs and P&I got a level 4 for the paso here, but W&P lost a level on partial stsq and the twizzles.

 

[WeakAnkles]

It certainly is different, and I thought their SD was the best when I saw them at Nebelhorn. I still think theirs is better than W&P program, but not among my favorites.

I have to agree with this. I think Igor has been watering it down all season, making it more like the "expected" version of a PD. I liked it better when it was more decidedly what I thought of as a 'soft' PD.

YMMV of course.

 

[Matt K]

I wonder if Shibs' results from US Nationals are carrying over to this event.

Really hope judges are judging what is on the ice.

C/B only won in the technical mark, and each of their program components were lower. That seems right.

 

[Alba]

C/B only won in the technical mark, and each of their program components were lower. That seems right.

You mean at the nationals? C&B had a lower TES at Nationals and here, in the SD.

 

[Matt K]

You mean at the nationals? C&B had a lower TES at Nationals and here, in the SD.

I mean at this event vs. W/P.

 

[Alba]

I mean at this event vs. W/P.

Oh okay. I thought you were comparing them with the Shibutani's. Yes W&P lost some levels, and IMO they were overscored in PCS as well for what they showed here. I think this was their weakest performance this year? She in particular looked a bit tired to me. Slow and sloppy.