2016-17 GPF Mens SP

[4everchan]

looking forward to the rest of your comments

I just saw Javi's program. I was thinking he had it in the bag the way he started out, but two serious errors, and the judges didn't bat an eye. Just because his score would usually be closer to 100 if skated clean, DOES NOT mean he deserves a score as high as 91+ for two sloppy major mistakes on his money jumps. NO WAY.

I'll check out the entire field before commenting further.

 

[Art&Sport]

So, I saw the rest except Yuzu who I imagine skated well, but maybe not completely clean. If he was clean, it would be the first time this season.

Just as I figured the judges nitpick Adam Rippon and fail to give Adam the PCS he deserves. Yuzu and Javi have an advantage on jump difficulty but they are simply NOT better than Adam in every PCS category. Both Shoma and Nathan need to mature and both made mistakes and that should be better reflected. Adam had a very minor barely noticeable swing adjustment on his landing of 3-axel, but nothing that should have received big mark takedowns. It goes to show that quads are the only thing judges are interested in rewarding. Why bother competing if you don't have quads and the judges are gonna automatically lowball and diss you to being lesser than against skaters who make huge errors? The crowd booed that lowball score for Adam, and rightly so. In my book, Adam should have been at least in front of Shoma and Nathan.

It's completely unfair to give quad kings a pass when they make mistakes.

Did the sound cut out for others when Patrick Chan skated? That makes it hard for me to judge his skate. Apparently, he skated clean. I should go back to check out Yuzu to determine whether his score was fair against Patrick's.

 

[HanDomi]

So, I saw the rest except Yuzu who I imagine skated well, but maybe not completely clean. If he was clean, it would be the first time this season.

Just as I figured the judges nitpick Adam Rippon and fail to give Adam the PCS he deserves. Yuzu and Javi have an advantage on jump difficulty but they are simply NOT better than Adam in every PCS category.

So in what category Adam is better than Hanyu ?

 

[Meoima]

So, I saw the rest except Yuzu who I imagine skated well, but maybe not completely clean. If he was clean, it would be the first time this season.

Just as I figured the judges nitpick Adam Rippon and fail to give Adam the PCS he deserves. Yuzu and Javi have an advantage on jump difficulty but they are simply NOT better than Adam in every PCS category. Both Shoma and Nathan need to mature and both made mistakes and that should be better reflected. Adam had a very minor barely noticeable swing adjustment on his landing of 3-axel, but nothing that should have received big mark takedowns. It goes to show that quads are the only thing judges are interested in rewarding. Why bother competing if you don't have quads and the judges are gonna automatically lowball and diss you to being lesser than against skaters who make huge errors? The crowd booed that lowball score for Adam, and rightly so. In my book, Adam should have been at least in front of Shoma and Nathan.

It's completely unfair to give quad kings a pass when they make mistakes.

Did the sound cut out for others when Patrick Chan skated? That makes it hard for me to judge his skate. Apparently, he skated clean. I should go back to check out Yuzu to determine whether his score was fair against Patrick's.

Before GPF, None of the men skated clean this season.

 

[4everchan]

and now? only 1 has? or would you say otherwise?

Before GPF, None of the men skated clean this season.

 

[Meoima]

and now? only 1 has? or would you say otherwise?

Technically back to back? No one.

 

[Art&Sport]

So in what category Adam is better than Hanyu ?

Ha ha, come on! Yuzu and Javi are consistently overscored on PCS, simply because of their quads. I think Adam is better than both interpretively and Adam is definitely on a par with Javi, Yuzu, Pat and Shoma re choreography, plus Adam has better spins than most of this field. It can't be anymore crystal clear that quads are the only thing that really matters in men's figure skating. The scoring is generally ridiculous. The problem to me is that the judges have too much to judge, and they are not judging PCS accurately. It's been said over and over again, but they need to rehaul the scoring system, and they need to employ judges who have a better understanding of music, choreography and performance. If it's going to continue being heavily all about the jumps, then make it a jumping contest. Figure skating is both sport and art. A lot of people think the focus should be only on sport, but that's not how figure skating developed, and that's not what it is. It's unique in that respect. They seriously need to eliminate the music and the choreo, have everyone wear innocuous similar outfits and just jump, spin and do footwork.

Clearly, Javi has improved stylistically as his confidence has grown, and I enjoy both of his programs this season. Maybe it was nerves for Javi going first in the sp. It will likely be difficult for Javi to win now if both Patrick and Yuzu go clean in the fp. However quad messy programs are becoming the norm among the men, and the scores for quadsters are still high. The sport really needs to rein in the rewards for making 4 revols in the air but failing to land the jump cleanly! :gaah:

 

[Art&Sport]

Before GPF, None of the men skated clean this season.

Adam has skated his sp clean throughout the GP, and Adam skated both programs clean at TEB.

 

[HanDomi]

Ha ha, come on! Yuzu and Javi are consistently overscored on PCS, simply because of their quads. I think Adam is better than both interpretively and Adam is definitely on a par with Javi, Yuzu, Pat and Shoma re choreography, plus Adam has better spins than most of this field. It can't be anymore crystal clear that quads are the only thing that really matters in men's figure skating. The scoring is generally ridiculous. The problem to me is that the judges have too much to judge, and they are not judging PCS accurately. It's been said over and over again, but they need to rehaul the scoring system, and they need to employ judges who have a better understanding of music, choreography and performance. If it's going to continue being heavily all about the jumps, then make it a jumping contest. Figure skating is both sport and art. A lot of people think the focus should be only on sport, but that's not how figure skating developed, and that's not what it is. It's unique in that respect. They seriously need to eliminate the music and the choreo, have everyone wear innocuous similar outfits and just jump, spin and do footwork.

Clearly, Javi has improved stylistically as his confidence has grown, and I enjoy both of his programs this season. Maybe it was nerves for Javi going first in the sp. It will likely be difficult for Javi to win now if both Patrick and Yuzu go clean in the fp. However quad messy programs are becoming the norm among the men, and the scores for quadsters are still high. The sport really needs to rein in the rewards for making 4 revols in the air but failing to land the jump cleanly! :gaah:

I am still waiting for facts in what category Hanyu is worse than Adam.

Facts are on my side that Hanyu is at least better in SS and transitions than Adam . Most 1 foot skating from all the men. Most transitions, least number of crossovers from all the men.


Hanyu SP program is more complete piece than Adam, seamless with a lot of transitions. So choreography also shoud go to Hanyu

 

[Art&Sport]

I answered your question. That you choose to ignore my answer is your business.

You like your facts, which mainly are your opinions. Nice for you that the judges are in agreement apparently with your views. But that's not saying much. I don't mistake my opinions for facts. But some things for sure that can't be disputed as facts: The scoring system sucks. PCS are often manipulated. Figure skating is very political. Quads are everything. If you aren't proved to have fully mastered quads, you are completely disrespected, no matter how talented you are in many other aspects. You don't have to perform quads consistently well if you are considered a quad king.

ETA:

Okay, I got a look at Hanyu, and I'm not surprised he's in first. Two messy landings but hey the judges don't care. Even the Eurosport commentators were fawning about Yuzu making the landing error look like part of the choreo. NOT. Anyway, yes, Yuzu's sp is a lot of fun and he performs with energy and gorgeous flow over the ice. Re the choice of music and choreo, it seems to me that Yuzu is taking a page out of Adam Rippon's book re Adam's musically fun fp last season, and also in choosing a Prince song, Yuzu appears to be emulating Jason Brown's successful use of Prince's music.

I can't judge Yuzu vs Chan because I wasn't able to view Chan's sp with his music, but he apparently performed well.

 

[Shorinji]

Ha ha, come on! Yuzu and Javi are consistently overscored on PCS, simply because of their quads. I think Adam is better than both interpretively and Adam is definitely on a par with Javi, Yuzu, Pat and Shoma re choreography, plus Adam has better spins than most of this field. It can't be anymore crystal clear that quads are the only thing that really matters in men's figure skating. The scoring is generally ridiculous. The problem to me is that the judges have too much to judge, and they are not judging PCS accurately. It's been said over and over again, but they need to rehaul the scoring system, and they need to employ judges who have a better understanding of music, choreography and performance. If it's going to continue being heavily all about the jumps, then make it a jumping contest. Figure skating is both sport and art. A lot of people think the focus should be only on sport, but that's not how figure skating developed, and that's not what it is. It's unique in that respect. They seriously need to eliminate the music and the choreo, have everyone wear innocuous similar outfits and just jump, spin and do footwork.

Clearly, Javi has improved stylistically as his confidence has grown, and I enjoy both of his programs this season. Maybe it was nerves for Javi going first in the sp. It will likely be difficult for Javi to win now if both Patrick and Yuzu go clean in the fp. However quad messy programs are becoming the norm among the men, and the scores for quadsters are still high. The sport really needs to rein in the rewards for making 4 revols in the air but failing to land the jump cleanly! :gaah:

Hello, this is my first time writing..... but after reading this quote, I need to say this....you HAVE to CHALLENGE to REAP the REWARDS...that is why this sport is getting more interesting.....the ladies are fighting too!!! so that the sports won`t stay stagnant. Yuzu and Javi learnt this a few years back, they are trying to balance hard between the TES and PCS, Patrick IS doing NOW and those young jumpers are TRYING ...You have to FIGHT through PAINS to GROW and those young jumpers will reap their rewards in a few years time. Playing safe does not move the sports forward....the judges is sending warnings and directions through hints by their marks. They DO give marks for those UNSEEN EFFORTS, I think

 

[Interspectator]

Hello, this is my first time writing..... but after reading this quote, I need to say this....you HAVE to CHALLENGE to REAP the REWARDS...that is why this sport is getting more interesting.....the ladies are fighting too!!! so that the sports won`t stay stagnant. Yuzu and Javi learnt this a few years back, they are trying to balance hard between the TES and PCS, Patrick IS doing NOW and those young jumpers are TRYING ...You have to FIGHT through PAINS to GROW and those young jumpers will reap their rewards in a few years time. Playing safe does not move the sports forward....the judges is sending warnings and directions through hints by their marks. They DO give marks for those UNSEEN EFFORTS, I think

Welcome to Golden Skate! Post often. :agree:

 

[Art&Sport]

Hello, this is my first time writing..... but after reading this quote, I need to say this....you HAVE to CHALLENGE to REAP the REWARDS...that is why this sport is getting more interesting.....the ladies are fighting too!!! so that the sports won`t stay stagnant. Yuzu and Javi learnt this a few years back, they are trying to balance hard between the TES and PCS, Patrick IS doing NOW and those young jumpers are TRYING ...You have to FIGHT through PAINS to GROW and those young jumpers will reap their rewards in a few years time. Playing safe does not move the sports forward....the judges is sending warnings and directions through hints by their marks. They DO give marks for those UNSEEN EFFORTS, I think

Pardon me, but you are such an apologist for the messy skating and the horrendous judging. It's laughable. There's nothing wrong with skaters pushing athletic boundaries. That was already happening and would have continued without quads being mandated as everything. The root of the problem is the scoring system and the lack of leadership and vision by people who run the sport.

Javi and Yuzu are gifted in their body structure and ability to get fast rotations. The judges give them the points and they are given leeway to improve stylistically and to stay atop the field, so yes they have improved in some of their weaker aspects, but it doesn't matter since their quads are everything, they just have to keep landing them and their PCS will remain in mid to high 9s. I don't argue with them being overall the best among the men right now. But I do argue with the inflated scores, and the scoring system that is too complicated and problematic.

For now, I continue to watch, but that's only because skaters, coaches and choreographers keep trying to find ways to overcome and transcend the ridiculous tech demands and the crazy scoring system. (It's fine to push boundaries, but there is way too much tech crammed into free programs).

 

[eta]

^Care to elaborate on "way too much tech" you mentioned?

And after Javi went first and received the scores he did I actually think both Chan an Hanyu were underscored in comparison.

 

[Meoima]

I answered your question. That you choose to ignore my answer is your business.

You like your facts, which mainly are your opinions. Nice for you that the judges are in agreement apparently with your views. But that's not saying much. I don't mistake my opinions for facts. But some things for sure that can't be disputed as facts: The scoring system sucks. PCS are often manipulated. Figure skating is very political. Quads are everything. If you aren't proved to have fully mastered quads, you are completely disrespected, no matter how talented you are in many other aspects. You don't have to perform quads consistently well if you are considered a quad king.

ETA:

Okay, I got a look at Hanyu, and I'm not surprised he's in first. Two messy landings but hey the judges don't care. Even the Eurosport commentators were fawning about Yuzu making the landing error look like part of the choreo. NOT. Anyway, yes, Yuzu's sp is a lot of fun and he performs with energy and gorgeous flow over the ice. Re the choice of music and choreo, it seems to me that Yuzu is taking a page out of Adam Rippon's book re Adam's musically fun fp last season, and also in choosing a Prince song, Yuzu appears to be emulating Jason Brown's successful use of Prince's music.

I can't judge Yuzu vs Chan because I wasn't able to view Chan's sp with his music, but he apparently performed well.

With 18 crossovers and no quads, someone can say Adam Rippon has come furthest as he can. http://chibura.tumblr.com/post/153879348150/original-post-in-russian-by-yulena

 

[Meoima]

Pardon me, but you are such an apologist for the messy skating and the horrendous judging. It's laughable. There's nothing wrong with skaters pushing athletic boundaries. That was already happening and would have continued without quads being mandated as everything. The root of the problem is the scoring system and the lack of leadership and vision by people who run the sport.

Javi and Yuzu are gifted in their body structure and ability to get fast rotations. The judges give them the points and they are given leeway to improve stylistically and to stay atop the field, so yes they have improved in some of their weaker aspects, but it doesn't matter since their quads are everything, they just have to keep landing them and their PCS will remain in mid to high 9s. I don't argue with them being overall the best among the men right now. But I do argue with the inflated scores, and the scoring system that is too complicated and problematic.

For now, I continue to watch, but that's only because skaters, coaches and choreographers keep trying to find ways to overcome and transcend the ridiculous tech demands and the crazy scoring system. (It's fine to push boundaries, but there is way too much tech crammed into free programs).

Pardon me but you're everything stands for a conservative view that drag sport backwards while it should go forward.

 

[lappo]

Pardon me but you're everything stands for a conservative view that drag sport backwards while it should go forward.

Completely agree. I have nothing against Adam being there (even though I still miss Spiderboy) and his efforts in the PCS department are laudable but in my opinion skaters who have to bother about rotating 3 or 4 quads in a FS and still manage to get good speed, SS, spins are much more laudable.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Re the choice of music and choreo, it seems to me that Yuzu is taking a page out of Adam Rippon's book re Adam's musically fun fp last season

Because Adam Rippon invented fun programs
Really, your nationalistic bias is so off the charts, it's hilarious.

So in what category Adam is better than Hanyu ?

Fingernails
Sorry, it's not meant in a mean way, but after Adams fingernail-check, I couldn't resist

 

[Shorinji]

Yes, I agree, score inflation is the problem....but the scoring system can only be fair when the majority of the skaters compete based on same levels be it jumping or artistry skills. Now, all the skaters varies, i.e. focusing too much on jumping etc....But until then, the system will and continue to be bias , I assume....flowing with the trend. So each skaters have to wok hard and keep challenging to keep up with a system that rewards a quad fall far better than a `clean and safe` program. I feel that the ladies skating are more towards a fair system cause every skaters are almost equal in their skills...that is why the judges are penalizing them on under rotations starting this season....so I guess this will happen to the men as well if most of them have equal skill to jump quads.

 

[qwertyskates]

I guess what bothers me most about this GPF is that the performances were not only poor, barely memorable, the skaters showed disappointment, pain, etc., in the rink (thank you Yuzu, for smiling instead, not at his best but he and Patrick were the most watchable) but the scoring is so off the mark I don't even know what to think anymore. It's arguable that the quads galore made it more exciting but there were too many quad fails.

I'd rather they don't just gift these PCS and GOEs like it's Christmas, once again scoring is a big ?????, like the bad old days, and I got really turned off.

Just mark everyone what they deserve already.

The placements are about right though, Javi doesn't deserve Bronze but then who else would???

I usually like Adam, he's done classier "dance" like Ashley's "Sweet Dreams", but this one is cheesy and tacky, even if performed at say, Vauxhall, and not GPF.