2016 Rostelecom Cup - Men SP

[silverfoxes]

I think if Shoma was being score more sanely I would really enjoy him. As it stands... i just stare at him scratching my head trying to "get" what others are seeing. I can't enjoy him because i feel like I am trying to solve a riddle.

I've seen him 3x in person and I don't get it at all...nothing against him, but he leaves me totally cold, and unfortunately when I see scores like this, I really have no desire to watch him in any more competitions. If they are scoring him like this now, then heaven help any skater who has to go up against him. It kills any suspense one might otherwise feel regarding the results, that's for sure.

 

[chuckm]

Shoma was the only man to land two quads in the SP: a 4f and a 4t+3t

Javi landed 4t+3t but his 4s turned into 3s.
Kolyada landed 4t+3t and 3z
Bychenko landed 4t and a 3f combo
Besseghier landed 4t+3t and 3z
Dmitriev landed 4t but fell on the 3t

 

[TheGrandSophy]

The thing for me is that Max had jump errors, but his levels on spins and steps fell apart. He looked slow and not really 'into' the skate after the fall to me. So, whilst low, I can see why his score was low. The fact there might have been overscoring at the other end (I think all of the top ones could do with a few points shaved off), doesn't mean his score was wrong. I haven't gone over his protocol with a fine tooth comb, but the number as a whole looked about right for what he did.

Still, it was very sad to see him upset. And I hope he did get a hug.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Shoma was the only man to land two quads in the SP: a 4f and a 4t+3t

Javi landed 4t+3t but his 4s turned into 3s.
Kolyada landed 4t+3t and 3z
Bychenko landed 4t and a 3f combo
Besseghier landed 4t+3t and 3z
Dmitriev landed 4t but fell on the 3t

and a 94 would still have put him in the lead by a few points.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

I've seen him 3x in person and I don't get it at all...nothing against him, but he leaves me totally cold, and unfortunately when I see scores like this, I really have no desire to watch him in any more competitions. If they are scoring him like this now, then heaven help any skater who has to go up against him. It kills any suspense one might otherwise feel regarding the results, that's for sure.

Leaving aside the score, many others do rave about him though. And I've heard quite a few say how much better they liked him live. So, it is obviously a matter of taste, but it isn't unlikely that many judges will like him.

 

[MaiKatze]

and a 94 would still have put him in the lead by a few points.

I think if the judges would have known how Javier would skate that would've been the score for Shoma. Or if Javier had skated before Shoma. I think they didn't want too big of a gap between these two.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I think if the judges would have known how Javier would skate that would've been the score for Shoma. Or if Javier had skated before Shoma. I think they didn't want too big of a gap between these two.

On the other hand what would Javi have gotten if he had nailed it?

 

[Yatagarasu]

On the other hand what would Javi have gotten if he had nailed it?

I think this is the more relevant question. Probably a new PB, considering the old is 102 and change.

 

[Bonesfan]

Higuchi-sensei and Shoma himself were flabbergasted. :shocked: That says a lot...haha.

Actually it is common for Japanese skaters to look "surprised" at good scores. Modesty is highly valued in Japanese culture.

 

[Rissa]

"From Moria, With whom was max on a World Team? He was the only American there."

That didn't sound right did it. What I was trying to say was that Max is on the US World Team and I was shocked to see him score so far below the Javi and Shoma who are members their countries World Teams. I hope that made sense. Please note, that I have not seen, and probably won't watch Max's program until after that free skate. I'm a wuss..

Ok, I get it now.

But you're wrong. Half of these skaters are on their World teams and their difference between top scorers is way bigger than 25 points. Deniss Vassiljevs was on his Worlds Team and he's 37 points behind the leader. Last year at NHK, in SP, there was 45 points spread between Hanyu and Brendan Kerry who was on Australia's World Team.

It just shows how far ahead the top men are.

 

[Yatagarasu]

According both Italian Esp Commentators, it isn't and his 4F should have been a -3 across the board considering no steps + hands down + overall quality of the jump.

I can't believe someone even commented on it but I don't think we'll ever see it scored that way, unfair or not.

 

[ice coverage]

... His pcs is the same, his Tron program from few years back is still better ...

Max's PCS today is a notch above Tron's in 2013.
(Yes, I would like greater improvement in his PCS.)

Tron SP in 2013

Four Continents: 34.92 PCS

http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2013/SEG001.HTM​

Worlds: 34.64 PCS

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/SEG001.HTM​

​

Nessun Dorma SP today: 37.50 PCS

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gprus2016/SEG001.HTM​

---

And I hope he did get a hug.

:agree:
Moving forward to the free skate: Go, Max :yay:.
I liked Tron. And I love :luv17: The Lion King.

 

[mrrice]

I just watched the Brits call Max's SP and they almost had me in tears by the end. They were so kind about how sad Max looked in the K&C and how he needed a hug.

I can't help but wonder how much having Tom Z as his coach all these years has hurt Max's development. There's a reason so many skaters leave Tom.

There are so many things that I like about Tom but, I think it's time for Max to move on. Here's why, Max needs to improve his Component number. He has hired the right choreographer however, with Tom in charge, I can imagine that when choreographer is not at the rink, Max doesn't hear about his weak spins, flexed feet, or his lack of connection with the Judges and Audience. These things were ALL corrected last season. Though he lost to Adam, I still think last year was Max's best season for programs.

Max is a fighter and I know he'll be back. I haven't seen the program but, if it was bad enough for the BESP guys to say he needed a hug, it must have been terrible.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

There are so many things that I like about Tom but, I think it's time for Max to move on. Here's why, Max needs to improve his Component number. He has hired the right choreographer however, with Tom in charge, I can imagine that when choreographer is not at the rink, Max doesn't hear about his weak spins, flexed feet, or his lack of connection with the Judges and Audience. These things were ALL corrected last season. Though he lost to Adam, I still think last year was Max's best season for programs.

Max is a fighter and I know he'll be back. I haven't seen the program but, if it was bad enough for the BESP guys to say he needed a hug, it must have been terrible.

I'm confused. If 'these things were all corrected last season', then surely he did 'hear about (them)' from his coach?

 

[karne]

So please someone knowledgeable tell me if Shoma' s 4F is jumped immediately from steps? If not, it should get at least minus 1. Then there must be another minus 1 for a touch down with one hand. But there are two judges who gave it a 0 GOE and only two judges actually scored -2 GOE. To offset -2 GOE a jump must get 4 bullets from the GOE Plus criteria. I tried to find such qualities with the jump and found none. It was just an ordinary jump with a flawed landing. Will this issue ever be taken seriously by ISU?

It won't. The only skaters who generally get dinged for "no steps" are the little country skaters. (Oh, the number of times I've seen great quads of Brendan's get the -3s in the SP because he doesn't do it out of steps...). And I mean, I could live with that, because rules, except that skaters like Uno or Rippon don't get dinged for it, which is massively frustrating.

I woke up and the men's short had still happened. UGH.

 

[mrrice]

I'm confused. If 'these things were all corrected last season', then surely he did 'hear about (them)' from his coach?

This is true however, as a choreographer who was often hired to work for College and High School Dancers, I have had my choreography "Altered" so that a team could through in another "Trick, Leap, or Turn Combination" which is their Prerogative. However, it changes the entire flow of the program and can be very disruptive to the dancer, or this case, skater. If Max is convinced that all he can do well is jump, that's where his mind will be when he's on the ice. He has some much talent and could really become a complete skater. This is not a new program for him and that's why I'm shocked he didn't skate it well especially after his rough SP at Lombardia

Do you guys remember Agnes Zawadski? I saw her at Skate Canada in 2010 and she jumped like a tall Tonya Harding. I thought she was spectacular!! I was excited for her LP which unfortunately did not go well. I watched practice at that event and Tom was the Opposite of the way I used to see Plushy and Maria warm back in the 90's. They didn't jump all out but they spun and performed there "In Between's" as they used to say. Agnes OTOH, Jumped, didn't perform and the jumped again. I hope that made sense. Forgive me, I'm just venting because I love Max's skating and I want him to be happy.


Here's Zawadski's SP from 2010:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvSg-poIwkg Beware.....It's Tara commenting on her program.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

Interesting that Shoma was the only one to get Level 4 on everything.

 

[Khoai]

So much of talk about -3 for solo jump without immediate steps before, judges do not know which is immediate step which is not, I am afraid.

Those judges gave 0 GOE for Mr. Uno's "hand down quad flip" should never be allowed to judge again. And those who gave -1 should get fined. Even -2 was generous. And since when they give a void program with mostly crossovers 44 PCS? I have seen it all.

And I see almost no more transitions in Mr. Fernandez's short program, how come they gave him 46 PCS for THAT?

And Mr Bychenko from Israel had no steps before his solo quad as well, why they gave him positive GOE? And it's quite GOE as well. What did the Israel fed trade with other fed to get that?

And how come the Latvian judge gave all from 9.0 to 9.75 PCS for top 4? Who is that IDIOT?

 

[silverfoxes]

I do think, overall, it was at least better than the men's SP at SC. Alexei was great and Elladj was pretty good (I do think he is a little on the slow side, but it's not that bothersome). Mikhail only had the stepout....I am sick of the program, but I know it's not his fault (but this costume is not an upgrade; I liked the old one better). And while Javi and Shoma were imo overscored, they didn't come close to really bombing, either.

I'm confused about the supposedly "new, improved" Malaguena though. Ok, they exchanged the costume for one of these boring minimalistic non-costumes that has nothing to do with flamenco as far as I can tell. Sure, he looks good in it, but he would look pretty good in a potato sack if it were tailored right. And I don't see anything else improved about it, either. I just don't understand why Evgenia caught so much flack for recycling and Javier doesn't...and I say that as someone who really likes him.

 

[LeeJiHye19]

That is a good way to put it. And i think his scores are a part. I don't dislike him or his skating, but i don't think he or is skating is as good as he is being scored. When the scores make no sense, i just can't connect to the skater well as I feel like i am missing something.

I think if Shoma was being score more sanely I would really enjoy him. As it stands... i just stare at him scratching my head trying to "get" what others are seeing. I can't enjoy him because i feel like I am trying to solve a riddle.

I feel the same but I have nothing against him. as a newbie fan of FS and I don't know things that the experts know, I am just relying on seeing the skaters do things artistically and make me feel that I am with him just like Hanyu did in his Sochi SP and to his R&J1 LP in WC at Nice.