2016 Trophée de France Pairs LP

[Irina89]

USA judge... Steve Winkler. (and some still believe judges are not country biased)

I assume he will get away with it...Well, the Americans will only get a bronze in ice dance next year, so...he must find someone to cheer for...

 

[ancientpeas]

Why do people think that the Russian fed does nothing to help T/M :sarcasm: ? That these programs are forced on them?
Since S/K are injuried and V/T having a baby they are number 1 in Russia. They worked with 2 new choreographers this year for their programs A.Gazsi and P.Tchernyshev. They get to work with Robin Szolkowy so the Russian fed IS investing in them.

Alright, that's good to know. Do you think it's working when it comes to the long program?

 

[machin]

What's this logic? They are Olympic medalist so they are not overrated?? Give me a second to laugh

Not really. VT were set up to win the gold whatever happened. It was a known thing for at least two years before, read the boards from that period, nobody was delisunial about it, deserved or not. It became even clearer after COR 2012 when they had a craptacular LP and still got OTT marks.

SK took their chance and skated beautifully to earn their silver, rightfully so given SS's errors. Theirs wasn't a given. I would have give them gold, like at 2014 Euros.

 

[4everchan]

sure but my point, is that their team has decided not to go your way... and i would think, logically, that if the 4twist was there, they would have included it... perhaps it's not working for them and they have decided to only use the 3twist in both programs... rather than attempt the quad in the LP only and crash and burn on it... I think that a driven pair team like them look at all possible ways of improving BV and go for what seems first to reach... and for them, it seems to be throws... but it takes time....

IMHO I think that the focus is too much on catching up D/R and S/H... too quickly because of the OGM.... by rushing through new elements quickly, they are creating inconsistencies... hence the problems they are having... when all the top teams are in the same events, they will get less PCS if they skate like today and top teams skate cleanly...

I think the whole trajectory is built with only ONE scenario ... OGM.... Aliona was clear about that... however, if they took more time and refined their elements and stabilized them better first, they would do better earlier on, like now... but maybe it would only be good enough for bronze or silver down the road.... we will see how they adjust.... if they keep these throws in, it's because they are risking everything for the big prize in 2018... but they may not win this year's worlds nor skate clean this season.

This is exatly what I want.

4Tw should be enough to beat everyone else when the other elements are clean.

 

[Tolstoj]

What's this logic? They are Olympic medalist so they are not overrated?? Give me a second to laugh

We can argue about VT's gold (but their throws were huge that night) but they were so strong until Sochi, they won everything. Worlds 2016 was the first time ever off the podium for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatiana_Volosozhar

SK deserved everything of that silver medal at Sochi, to me they were even better than VT and it wasn't expected.

 

[moriel]

T/M have 24, and they are most likely in, as there is no possible way of more than 3 other teams scoring 26 even if D/R are 4th on their second G/P (which would put them ahead of T/M on tie breaker).

 

[QuadThrow]

sure but my point, is that their team has decided not to go your way... and i would think, logically, that if the 4twist was there, they would have included it... perhaps it's not working for them and they have decided to only use the 3twist in both programs... rather than attempt the quad in the LP only and crash and burn on it... I think that a driven pair team like them look at all possible ways of improving BV and go for what seems first to reach... and for them, it seems to be throws... but it takes time....

IMHO I think that the focus is too much on catching up D/R and S/H... too quickly because of the OGM.... by rushing through new elements quickly, they are creating inconsistencies... hence the problems they are having... when all the top teams are in the same events, they will get less PCS if they skate like today and top teams skate cleanly...

I think the whole trajectory is built with only ONE scenario ... OGM.... Aliona was clear about that... however, if they took more time and refined their elements and stabilized them better first, they would do better earlier on, like now... but maybe it would only be good enough for bronze or silver down the road.... we will see how they adjust.... if they keep these throws in, it's because they are risking everything for the big prize in 2018... but they may not win this year's worlds nor skate clean this season.

I agree that the inconsisteny is very bad. Makes me feel bad.

But there are different massages from Aljona and the coaches these days. They did not really practiced the 4Tw so far. I think because it will not be a big deal. And they will add it later.

They first want to go for some bigger throws and try someting new. The German commentator said that they possibly change the order of elemens in the Free program and maybe some elements after this Grand Prix.

Aljona is really focused on Poeng Chang but everybody said that she is more relaxed now because she found her personal happiness in oberstorf.

But I am really asking myself is if she does not see that they can catch up D/R and S/H right now even without the big throws. The judges go with them.

 

[4everchan]

we will see what the judges do, when top teams face each other...

I agree that the inconsisteny is very bad. Makes me feel bad.

But there are different massages from Aljona and the coaches these days. They did not really practiced the 4Tw so far. I think because it will not be a big deal. And they will add it later.

They first want to go for some bigger throws and try someting new. The German commentator said that they possibly change the order of elemens in the Free program and maybe some elements after this Grand Prix.

Aljona is really focused on Poeng Chang but everybody said that she is more relaxed now because she found her personal happiness in oberstorf.

But I am really asking myself is if she does not see that they can catch up D/R and S/H right now even without the big throws. The judges go with them.

 

[SarahSynchro]

I missed the whole event.

I see the twist nazi was on tech control again. Level 1 or 2 for everyone!

 

[yqs100]

We can argue about VT's gold (but their throws were huge that night) but they were so strong until Sochi, they won everything. Worlds 2016 was the first time ever off the podium for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatiana_Volosozhar

SK deserved everything of that silver medal at Sochi, to me they were even better than VT and it wasn't expected.

I'm not talking about the game in Sochi, I just think generally these two teams are overrated.

 

[Nathan13]

I hope Aliona's ankle is okay...She was obviously not comfortable after they performed, and she seems to be limping after the medal ceremony

 

[bwayrose7]

1 - Savchenko/Massot (GER) : 30pts - 1er & 1er
2 - Tarasova/Morozov (RUS): 24pts - 2ème & 3ème

3 - Seguin/Bilodeau (CAN): 22pts - 1er & 5ème
4 - Zabiiako/Enbert (RUS): 22pts - 2ème & 4ème - 390,33
5 - Denney/Frazier (USA): 22pts - 2ème & 4ème - 380,88

6 - James/Ciprès (FRA): 20pts - 3ème & 4ème

---------------------
Duhamel/Radford (CAN): 15pts - 1er & NHK
Yu/Zhang (CHN): 13pts - 2ème & COC
Iliuschechkina/Moscovitch(CAN): 11pts - 3ème & COC

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but now we can safely put S/M, T/M, and S/B into the GPF, along with D/R (presuming there's no freak disaster for them at NHK). Anyone with more knowledge than me able to break down the showdown between Z/E, D/F, and Y/Z?

 

[moriel]

S/B are still not a lock, as, depending on the setup, its possible (although unlikely), 4 teams will score 24+ points.


TAT just said during men's warm up that S/M WD from gala, as Aljona injured her foot

 

[Sophie-Anna]

I really really hope Aliona will be okay. I just watched the video from the victory ceremony and she definitely was not okay

 

[moriel]

I really really hope Aliona will be okay. I just watched the video from the victory ceremony and she definitely was not okay

Yeah i wonder if anyone has any news. Really hope thats minor, we already have too many pairs down this season

 

[4everchan]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but now we can safely put S/M, T/M, and S/B into the GPF, along with D/R (presuming there's no freak disaster for them at NHK). Anyone with more knowledge than me able to break down the showdown between Z/E, D/F, and Y/Z?

S/B are not in yet ... but of course, they are in much better shape today than they were yesterday

D/R (big favourites at NHK and they already have 15 points... even with 22 they would beat S/B with the total amount of points... most likely... but i'd be shocked if they don't finish 1st at NHK)

Y/Z will pass S/B with a third place at COC they have 13 points. They enter as favourites.

I/M need a second place to qualify at COC they have 11 points.

Three teams have yet to enter GP :

P/J , W/W and he 2nd ranked german team.(V/B) For these teams, they will need 24 points of course.


Kavaguti and Smirnoff have a 7 pointer... it would be a long shot for them to beat B/S... they would need to win their event and beat them in total points, which would be surprising.... (almost impossible)... However, if they take a spot on a podium, they will knock other teams down as well...


So in summary...

what is expected is

S/M
D/R (most likely 1st NHK)
T/M
Y/Z (Most likely 1st COC)

then we will see if P/J or I/M or W/W places 2nd at COC... that will be crucial... that team will most likely qualify

after that, we will see if S/B still have a chance...

all is not lost but there are still too many teams who have 2 events coming up to honestly say it's a done deal.

 

[eli60056]

Not really. VT were set up to win the gold whatever happened. It was a known thing for at least two years before, read the boards from that period, nobody was delisunial about it, deserved or not. It became even clearer after COR 2012 when they had a craptacular LP and still got OTT marks.

SK took their chance and skated beautifully to earn their silver, rightfully so given SS's errors. Theirs wasn't a given. I would have give them gold, like at 2014 Euros.

Let's not try to rewrite history so soon after it happened. There are too many who still remember it, you know. Some have even been there. So, no, S/K were not better than V/T at the OG, and everyone at the time, including on this board said that VT's win was deserved. We will never know if they were "set up to win whatever happened", because they themselves removed all those variables and performed the best of all. Everything else is pure speculation and is not reflecting well mainly on the person/s who is speculating. You are trying to throw shade on a perfectly deserved win by all those what-ifs and half truths. If there was a medal "given" there, that was really the bronze.

In fact, what have V/T to do with this GP event and this thread at all? Or is their winning record so irritating for some people that they always have to mention them everywhere? It rather attests to their greatness, if they are always held up for comparison.

 

[Sweet Dream]

T/M still have a long way to go to be the leading pairs team in Russia. To begin with, they have to find a better LP and be mentally much tougher on the ice!

 

[Mango]

The PCS at Skate Canada for much better performances were basically pedestrian compared to this event.

Also interesting to note that of all the great pairs from the four continents, only Castelli/Tran were sent here. It's almost like the other federations knew the judging at TdF would not be good...

 

[lavoix]

No. Moskvina's pairs are the elegant pairs in figure skating.

Sweety, no. Kavaguti/Smirnov are really not all that this season. Beautiful pair, but Mozer has really done amazing with all pairs.