2017 Worlds Short Dance

[rosy14]

It's actually the most authentic swing of any couple. It is more jive than swing, but give them credit for being authentic to the dance.

I think they're overscored for this SD, but they're setting up the narrative not only for the final, but also for next season. I just don't think it should be second. I'd have it fourth.

Overscored in SD as nearly always

 

[rosy14]

That's funny, people complain all the time about dance being too subjective, but when you have surprises due to TES scores (which is the most objective you can get), they're still not happy. Well done H/D, hopefully people will look at them for their own value now, instead as default USA#3.

TES is not all objective, because part of it comes from GoE, which are awarded by judges. And as you can see, for the same element different judges can give +1, +2 or 0, - 1....

 

[rosy14]

The problem with dance in general is it's a lot harder to understand technically than the other disciplines, and even the most devoted and educated fan isn't always going to be able to make sense of what happened without extreme slow motion replays- and even with the extreme slow motion replays you really need to know a lot about the specific rules, about key points, about edges, and be able to see these clearly which also isn't always the easiest with the angles available to us.
People saying P/C didn't make mistakes are very wrong- they did, and a few of them, they just weren't visible to the naked eye in real time. To the naked eye only the twizzle error was visible. They also made errors on the Partial Steps and the No Touch steps, and that's why they got level 3 on those. To even their coaches, in real time, those errors probably weren't obvious because it really is quite simply just one of the two of them not having the correct edge at the correct second or even milisecond when they are supposed to be holding that edge. That's it, level down. Quite obviously this doesn't make sense to the casual viewer, and like I said it's usually not even going to be obvious to the very experienced viewer who's gone to great lengths to educate themselves in real time.

Plain and simple, most of the difference in scores among the top teams today is plainly accounted for by looking at who actually hit their levels and therefore made the fewest mistakes. One can squabble over the PCS if one is inclined to do so, but many of the people who seem to be complaining seem to be complaining just generally or even about the TES because of what they saw in real time. What you see in real time is a much smaller part of the picture in ice dance than in the other disciplines.

So, which were these errors by L/C or the Shibs ? Because no one, not even a technical specialist commenting on TV was able to tell.

 

[NoNameFace]

finally was able to catch some breather after watching ladies and crying in the corner because of Anna...

in general - a world class, top-notch competition, 9 teams went over 70 pts, Stepanova/Bukin close to that and what a commotion between 2nd and 9th, it guarantees a passionate fight in FD. And it was great to see some surprises happening, which the best was Madison and Zach being 3rd

have to say that I enjoyed very much quite a few teams outside top 10, Charlene and Marco, Alisa and Alper, Isabella and Ilya and Natalia and Maksym in particular. They put the best effort and really got me engaged, Israelis maybe not as sharp as at Europeans, but Italians totally sold me 'Grease' once again, so much sass and personality they can show! And their skating is so easy on eyes, quite fast and 'well distibuted' on ice I'd say.

Ekaterina/Dimitri and Anna/Luca were their strong, usual themselves - Ekaterina too hot to handle, very much in charater, great chemistry and blues section form them; Anna and Luca as always great entertainers, so well into their forte, putting up a good show, with attitude, spark and dazzling smiles. But saying that, seeing them vis-a-vis US and Canadian teams - being at their best - both Russians and Italians felt a little 'flat' and one-dimentional for me, in expression and choreography in particular. Not taing anything from their execution, style and performance quality they obviously had, but personally I resonated a lot more within all 6 teams from North America, as they presented a bit more modern approach/non-standard approach towards rhythm (Piper and Paul) which caught my eye, especially pairing it with equally great execution and powerful performance as a whole. And adding French team in perspective, both Anna/Luca and Ekaterina/Dimitri felt too much of generic side unfortunately - French really have an unique SD, all about little nuances, touches and subtle, seductive vibe, very artsy and photo-like (as for 'holding the moment' quality).

Maia and Alex - a bit surprising position, but still ggod effort, scoe and engaging performance of one of my favourite SD this season. There was an unnecessary nervousness and a bit of stiffness in movement I saw today, which both made the difference. Still - twizzles were outstanding, loved their pattern, relaxed feel of it and great work in holds. Loved their attitude and way of performing, as always, and for me this is the dance wich does not lose anything fromits fresh/modern allure, even if skated with not so perfect levels, as they are usually not much visible to the naked eye (at least mine, but I am a potato amateur who writes too much ). The whole experience sure will be a point of learning for them and no doubt they'll be back tomorrow with all they have the best to present. They just have to loosened up the way they did at 4CC, just tune up a right amount of abandon in sharpness. At the end of the day, they are only humans, allowed to have day off, allowed to be nervous and feel the pressure or put a foot wrong, like every team; I already put their current season, material and approach towards it in a broader perspective and I do believe that there was no accident and fault in so vivid, positive response over them, and that they were awarded rightly with all they had. It is just not my style to cross out a team after one 'weaker'/lower scored performance, as it did not take them back to the point before they progressed immensely as skaters and performers.

Madison and Evan - as I don't like the program itself, I think that it is quite good vehicle for them, for Madison in particular. She is just a beast in that, totally in her element, music is loud and bold, so is she - totally unapologetic and ovet-the top, but it works with the flow, so no complaints. Evan as always a bit out of comfort zone and not so sure as Madison, but still going through and put up his best effort. It was good to see them going strong and steady after such high/low season.

Gabriella and Guillaume - aside of technical glitches, the program felt the best for the whole season, no doubt for me about it. It resonated with freshness, seductive vibe and that flowy/subtle sway in it. It is not an universal 'crowd pleaser' I'd say, not too modern, not generic, not a favourite f everyone, but sure it suits them very much, accentuating their qualities and that artistic, impressionist-like style, feathery way of movement, an ability to enclose and seize the moment within their skating. They did put their best effort and produced still a quality performance, sophisticated, elegant and flirty in reception of mine. Really lookin forward to FD as this will be a moment to catch for sure.

If I'd have to say which performance surprised me the most, no doubt it was Madison and Zach. To make a program, which is for me a 'happy seizure' moment, so extremely busy and 'dizzy' both musically and choreography-wise, work in a way they did today is quite a accomplishment. Not only they truly smashed technical content, being smooth and flowy af (!), but even more importantly - they really led that performance amazingly to the grand finale, keeping its insane pace, character and their personalities in the process. There was a poise, speed, detail, expression, attitude and they really confused the heck out of almost everyone, judges and audience probably included , but good for them. I bet they'll try their best to keep the momentum created, and with going last tomorrow it could be possible to put even bigger surprise. My personal only complain would be towards some components (CH and TR) for being a tad too high, but a real round of applause for Madison and Zach, quite a way to put themselves on the map!

If I'd have to say which performance felt the most 'relieving' for me, the response would be Kaitlyn and Andrew. They finally made tht MJ program WORK technically best they could. There was a real fire in that performance, sharpness and great timing, especially in the second part with all those choreographical 'pizzas'. They went all out with it, but still kept their cool regarding execution which made me extremely happy. The program itself is maybe not the most artistic, sophisticated or original one, but sure has its appeal by MJ music, modern feel of costuming and choreo and of course Kaitlyn and Andrew doing it, as great performers they are. For me personally, there was quite a spark about the performance and I'd give it a better PCS score.

And if there would be question about most inspiring performance, Disco Reggie and Disco Diane are my only answer to it. WHAT A SKATE! Yes - they stripped some of the riskiest transitions and re-worked lift/ending sections, but still saved that laid-back Disco feel of the music and whole culture. This was a complete performance package - from costuming (Piper in stars), accessorizing (mustache and co.), through chreography, greatly chosen music, finishing with being so into character, so engaged into performance which amde it much mre attractive and closer to the viewers. The amount of originality, uniqueness and quirk factor of that dance are mind-blowing and totally underappreciated at the same time, which is a real crying shame for me (but this is my favourite SD so I'm not objective there). I felt totally transported and impressed by their dedication, poise and control, yet still feeling a lot of freedom, relaxing feel and abandon while performing. So, so glad they succeeded when it matters the most, still mad about underscoring, but that's the way of being quirks not so into classic approach...Hopes high for smashing the best Tango in the field tomorrow!

and finally Tessa and Scott - for me, the best of their SD performances of all season, not because all lvl4s, but because of filling out that program by themselves, by their personality, charisma, chemistry in a very special way. And why are they so successful, seem so powerful, yet looking easy and effortless? Firstly - insane amount of confidence presented, both in execution and performance areas, really going all out in every competition, fearless, unapologetic attitude towards competitions. Secondly - material they have in their hands, a glove-like fit and beyond; material treated as a starting point for experimenting, improvisation and character-building, not as a final product to skate out; perfect match of music, vibe, movement and personality between all elements. Third - capitalizing on their best qualities and skills they have. Fourth - being engaged perormers, regardless of rhythm, style, program or other conventions. Fifth - having very strong, palpable kind of chemistry and understanding in relationship on ice, which enables them to give out and convey many different emotions taken directly frm them or from music or program presented.

Today I felt like they really did an outstanding work, it really felt like a story in motion: meeting together, knowing each other's moves by skatig side by side at first, then dancing in holds, giving off more intimate, sultry vibe, and then dancing together towards explosive final, all amped up by iconic Prince music.

And lastly, addressing a bit once again 'being past their prime' issue - it is a fact obvious to common knowledge that Tessa and Scott are entirely different skaters and people now, comparing them to 2010 - they look different, move different and their skating is different thantherefore, no wonder about that as there was a lot of things happening meanwhile. And it is a viewer's right to give an opinion if stuff they did in 2010 can be considered as their 'prime', comparing it with current work, but it takes a lot of confidence and conviction to put an equalizer between Tessa and Scott doing stuff in a way they did in 2010 and their 'prime time' and to make it an universal statement, a fact. It is always in the eye of beholder in my opinion to point a 'prime' period for a team, as it could not be connected necessarily with winning in competitions. Personally, right now I am probably too simple and not refined/educated viewer for dwelling on 'prime/best' times of Tessa/Scott, I'm just enjoying them being again in competition in a way they are.

 

[tulosai]

So, which were these errors by L/C or the Shibs ? Because no one, not even a technical specialist commenting on TV was able to tell.

Again, in real time it is often not possible to tell. I don't pretend to know. I haven't gone back and tried to watch it in slow motion to figure it out. I trust the calls and I don't care that much. But that commentator saw exactly what you did- in real time. Their being a technical specialist doesn't give them magical super powers to figure out the levels from one viewing at normal speed. The real tech specialists have access to slow motion footage, and from multiple angles. There is one watching the male and one watching the female so that they don't have to worry about seeing the edges of both at once or watching several times in order to make sure they see both. Comments like this are honestly very naive. Also I don't even know who L/C are. Do you by any chance mean C/L? Are you honestly trying to convince me you know better than the tech panel when you don't even know the order the Italians initials go in?

I know my tone isn't the kindest ever but I find this all very frustrating. I don't know why people would rather assume some vast technical conspiracy against- what exactly? The USA when H/D of all people are in third? All teams that aren't from Montreal even though there's almost no gap between P/C and the C/B? I even heard someone suggest a vast Russian conspiracy where they are trying to confuse the judges about who is US #1 so that B/S can get a medal at the Olympics. Either way, I refuse to accept that they were given the wrong levels as part of a conspiracy or not and that THIS somehow is the most likely thing, not that your favorites mighta just messed something up for a half second when they were on a wrong edge this once.

 

[labgoat]

So excited that I get to listen to Tanith and Ben's take on the SD on tonight's NBCSN coverage of Dance! The fact that I have been watching skating live, or watching skating on youtube, or reading fan threads since 5:30 a.m. does not dull my enthusiasm! But it does dull my energy. Just texted my husband to pick up supper on his way home!!

Me too watching since early as I took a long weekend and it is cold and rainy here. Love Tanith & Ben & Charlie too.

 

[WeakAnkles]

V/M: the untouchable gods of ice dance.

Marlie might have a thing or two to say about that.

 

[rosy14]

Again, in real time it is often not possible to tell. I don't pretend to know. I haven't gone back and tried to watch it in slow motion to figure it out. I trust the calls and I don't care that much. But that commentator saw exactly what you did- in real time. Their being a technical specialist doesn't give them magical super powers to figure out the levels from one viewing at normal speed. The real tech specialists have access to slow motion footage, and from multiple angles. There is one watching the male and one watching the female so that they don't have to worry about seeing the edges of both at once or watching several times in order to make sure they see both. Comments like this are honestly very naive. Also I don't even know who L/C are. Do you by any chance mean C/L? Are you honestly trying to convince me you know better than the tech panel when you don't even know the order the Italians initials go in?

I know my tone isn't the kindest ever but I find this all very frustrating. I don't know why people would rather assume some vast technical conspiracy against- what exactly? The USA when H/D of all people are in third? All teams that aren't from Montreal even though there's almost no gap between P/C and the C/B? I even heard someone suggest a vast Russian conspiracy where they are trying to confuse the judges about who is US #1 so that B/S can get a medal at the Olympics. Either way, I refuse to accept that they were given the wrong levels as part of a conspiracy or not and that THIS somehow is the most likely thing, not that your favorites mighta just messed something up for a half second when they were on a wrong edge this once.

I have simply and politely asked if you know what errors Gabrielle and Guillaume or Anna and Luca (may I make a typo, L/C instead of C/L, or must I be perfect in writing in a forum on figure skating?), because your tone was so sure. I perfectly know that technical panel has eyes and tools and means that allow to evaluate much better than us fans, and we all have seen that at Euros
( sarcasm). Actually my daughter realised "live" the small mistake on the twizzles by Scott, apparently unnoticed by the judges. And both of us see every time Gabrielle and Guillaume skate, their usual errors on twizzles or sincronicity at the end of the SD, that don't change their levels, usually, nor their GoE.
But never mind. I get another lesson by an" expert", who actually knows things as every else here
and who, just to silence debate, cries "conspiracy".
I know the type: all is fine and good until their favs are lawballed by techs or judges. And then all hell breaks loose.

 

[SarahSynchro]

Marlie might have a thing or two to say about that.

Psssssh. Quiet you.

 

[labgoat]

Listening to Tanith and Ben: in the midnight blues you should be as close as a cinnamon bun!

 

[labgoat]

Tanith and Ben both put G & G ahead of B & S. They also called out the Shibs for speed and flatness of partial step for flats. They did like the blues pattern and twizzles.

 

[labgoat]

Ben & Tanith on W/P - Attitude for days and great speed and flow in blues.

 

[labgoat]

Good look at how Cizeron cut his hand when he failed to catch his blade on the twizzles early in the program and skated the rest of the program bleeding. A distraction for sure. Ben called them smooth like buttah in the blues.

 

[labgoat]

H & D have such great extensions and they have such a great blues. Pure joy from Madison. Ben and Tanith rave about strong extensions and great posture and new confidence.

 

[Mathman]

Watching on the big little screen I liked Chock and Bates the best. Tanith and Ben's commentary was really helpful.

 

[labgoat]

I liked H & D for the blues and C & B for the Uptown funk. Agreed that V/M were by far the best but P/C for their flow. I felt G/P were not rewarded for their closeness and neatness. Liked the performance quality of B/S and C/L but felt both got a bit sloppy and scratchy.

 

[Mango]

On the first day of practice Weaver/Poje had the ice entirely to themselves. It helped them practice their full step sequences.

 

[bobbob]

The scoring in the short was...bewildering...to say the least

Nevertheless, Virtue/Moir did skate very well. What a huge score!

 

[Ryan O]

I felt G/P were not rewarded for their closeness and neatness.

I agree.

I thought G/P were a little undermarked. I felt they should have been above B/S.

 

[SnowWhite]

Marlie might have a thing or two to say about that.

They're retired. Oh sorry, not competing next season, moving on to other things, but not using the word retired. We've all basically forgotten about them


The 'retired but not' comment is just a joke btw. I think it's funny that they did that, but you do you