2022 Olympics Team Event Day2: Men's Free Skate

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don’t think Malinin would beat Kagiyama but maybe Mark.

You seem to not take into account that junior skaters PCs go up when they go Senior and get into major events.

Vincent’s Olympic score four years ago a case in point.

No reason if Ilia landed a 5 quad skate he might not get at least 80

Oh yeah Malinin could beat Mark with his Nationals FS, especially if Mark had been properly scored on GOE for some of his sketchier landings, and better scored on PCS. But we will never know that for this competition at least.

Vincent’s Olympics score was different because he had an actual Grand Prix season. Other than a CS Ilia doesn’t have much clout. And it’s not like he’s a Junior WC or something, he would literally be coming up out of nowhere as the US #3 at that.

Malinin was 16th at the 2020 WJC and 5th at Skate America. He hasn’t scored above 134 in a FS. There is waaaayyy too much credence given to one Nationals for him. Let’s see if lightning can strike twice for him before people can crow “we told you he would score well”.

 

[el henry]

Yes Jason can but that is if those guys make numerous mistakes.

However there is enough of them where some are going to hit.

I am sorry his season best is 9th.
If those guys skate well he won’t beat most of them.

So using Jason is relying on a bunch of people to mess up.

No, it is not where only they make numerous mistakes. He has outscored those skaters not because those skaters had splatfests, but because he outscored them.

Jason did not skate in the Men's TE, and I have come here only to clarify what Jason's fans think and do not think, or of course, the fans that I know. So I am not going to divert further by listing each and every comp where he did well, but they are there for those who want to look it up.

Congrats to all the skaters in the men's TE free, who did their best in the comp they skated

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I wanted to share Roman Sadovsky's post-TE FS interview with CBC TV, where he said that it felt like he was skating in someone else's body. There's a very brief clip near the end where you see one of his teammates (the consensus on the Canadian thread that it's either Michael Marinaro or Nikolaj Sørensen, but it's difficult to tell which one) cradling Roman's head while Roman cries into his chest. I just thought it was a touching moment where the team is providing him with emotional support after what has been a nightmarish Olympics for him.

I've been told that Roman's interview is geoblocked outside of Canada, so I took a screencap of the clip in the hope that someone outside of Canada is able to identify if it's Mike or Nik.

I just wish I knew for certain who it was because I want to give proper credit to the teammate who comforted Roman in such a tender way (with an intrusive TV camera nearby, no less) after he had a catastrophic long program. I'm sad to say that I've known plenty of people who are happy to trample on others when they're down (and we've of course encountered some of them on this forum), so I was really moved seeing this moment.

There's no denying that Roman is by far the weakest link in Team Canada, but I'm very relieved that none of his teammates appear to be angry at him because he endangered the team's chances to qualify for the FS, or that he definitely cost them a chance (however small) at getting the bronze medal. Whether it was Mike or Nik who held Roman in their arms, I think they're a total sweetheart, and they displayed team spirit at its best. Maybe I'm just overly emotional, but that was a really beautiful, heartwarming gesture to me.

Unfortunately, I can't open the video. IMO, it is Zach Lagha who is pictured comforting Roman. Masks continue to make it difficult to identify skaters and coaches at times.

Thanks for sharing Roman's comments after his fp. I can totally relate to experiencing a deer-in-the-headlights moment unexpectedly, as well as butterflies in the stomach moments! But, I'm not an athlete, so I can't imagine those feelings happening when you have to perform physically at a high level.

The good thing is that it's now over, and Roman has the opportunity to grow from this experience. He should also be fully aware that he's not alone in this type of thing. Simone Biles famously experienced the 'twisties' at the recently delayed Summer Olympics. It was a huge teachable moment that went beyond medals and athletic performance. Michelle Kwan, Patrick Chan, and Nathan Chen, not to mention, Kurt Browning, all experienced humbling, less than stellar performances at the Olympics. Roman is not alone in what he experienced.

The wise Dick Button has always said that every figure skater will experience a disastrous performance at some point in their career, or a less than expected performance outcome. It is an inevitability. The important thing is what you learn from going through it.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Malinin was 16th at the 2020 WJC and 5th at Skate America. He hasn’t scored above 134 in a FS. There is waaaayyy too much credence given to one Nationals for him. Let’s see if lightning can strike twice for him before people can crow “we told you he would score well”.

Why don't we just wait and see what happens as the skating world turns. LOL!

For me, it is more about anticipating exciting, close and sporting figure skating battles and rivalries on the ice between exceptionally talented skaters, rather than pretentiously choosing sides between skaters, or spouting off about unrelated event stats.

It elevates the sport to witness close, exciting competitions between talented young skaters. It's better than watching blah, same-old, same-old, predictable competitions, or overly political-scoring-based comps.

 

[bekalc]

No, it is not where only they make numerous mistakes. He has outscored those skaters not because those skaters had splatfests, but because he outscored them.

Jason did not skate in the Men's TE, and I have come here only to clarify what Jason's fans think and do not think, or of course, the fans that I know. So I am not going to divert further by listing each and every comp where he did well, but they are there for those who want to look it up.

Congrats to all the skaters in the men's TE free, who did their best in the comp they skated

How did those other guys skate. Kolyoda and Keagan beat him at worlds when they skated well you cannot ignore that.

You seem to think I hate Jason I don’t. I just see the true fact that he is not competitive for a world or Olympic medal due to his competitive content.

Even Jason admits it.

Yes if the others which harder tech content can make mistakes and he can beat them. But Jason does not control his own destiny.

I don’t hate Jason if Ilia had not shown up I would have been fine with him on the team but I think the priority should be skaters who are competitive for world or Olympic medals.

 

[speed100]

Okay, and now it looks like Vincent is having a bad day. Too late. They should have picked Jason!!! Just sayin! Jason has proven on plenty of occasions just what he can do in high pressure situations. And with his artistry, even sans quads, Jason could have delivered a high placement. Vincent is tanking. Will the U.S. salvage at least silver or bronze even? Russia certainly has the gold at this point.

No drama at all for ice dance FD now. What a complete downer! Oy vey. And seriously, I personally did not like either Vincent or Karen being chosen to compete in the team event!!!!

Serves U.S. fed right. They always make wrong decisions. They can't see the forest for the trees. Yes, some tough decisions, but I would not have hesitated to put Jason in the mix and go with Mariah. The results could not have been any worse than they are now. And they could have vastly improved.

Lousy skating from Vin is due to Rusfed politicking for their skaters heehee

 

[speed100]

No way do I think Red Pants Jesus was better than the Crouching Tiger

Was there at least one jump of a Tiger that was not UR?

 

[Jadeice]

Lol the Japanese judge (judge 1) was really worried Vincent would place 2nd eh.

Don't think so, seems he genuinely didn't think Zhou deserved higher PCS. After all, a day earlier he gave Chen PCS even slightly above the average of the other judges (and placed Shoma only a bit above him).

 

[Blades of Passion]

The reality is Karen cost the US more points than Vincent

Nope, she lost 2 points in the differential vs Russia whereas Vincent lost 3.

But that's irrelevant anyway, because she was the most competitive choice for USA to send out there. Vincent was not. Nathan Chen should have been there. Nobody can control exactly what will happen, but you have to field the people who have the best chance.

And stop it with the "Nathan Chen would get burned out" talk. There is no evidence of that, nor is it the way ANY other sport works. The whole "they will get burned out" thing is nothing but a superstitious, fear-based mentality. He would have got a full day break between each performance and he's already doing these things in practice anyway.

Her UR haven’t improved

She didn't have any UR beyond 1/4. Her 3Lutz+3Toe was sufficient and executed the way this combo should actually be done, with a huge correct-edge non-prerotated 3Lutz, and a 3Toe that actually goes UP into the air and doesn't overly prerotate.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Nope, she lost 2 points in the differential vs Russia whereas Vincent lost 3.

But that's irrelevant anyway, because she was the most competitive choice for USA to send out there. Vincent was not. Nathan Chen should have been there. Nobody can control exactly what will happen, but you have to field the people who have the best chance.

And stop it with the "Nathan Chen would get burned out" talk. There is no evidence of that, nor is it the way ANY other sport works. The whole "they will get burned out" thing is nothing but a superstitious, fear-based mentality. He would have got a full day break between each performance and he's already doing these things in practice anyway.

She didn't have any UR beyond 1/4. Her 3Lutz+3Toe was sufficient and executed the way this combo should actually be done, with a huge correct-edge non-prerotated 3Lutz, and a 3Toe that actually goes UP into the air and doesn't overly prerotate.

Actually, I revise what I said -- they were both the same damage. Karen came 5th instead of 3rd losing 2 points but would have been behind ROC anyways. Vincent came 3rd instead of 2nd swapping with ROC, losing 2 points. Karen however really should have beat either Gubanova or Schizas, and erred on 2 of 3 jumping passes.

LOL I love how you defend her 3-3 till the end.

And if you're going to say Zhou should have beaten Kagiyama for a loss of 3 points, that's BS - then you should also then say Karen should have come 2nd to Higuchi.

Chen burnout or not would have been pressed to beat Kagiyama - he hasn't scored 208.94 all season and only did that once internationally (2021 Worlds) in the past two seasons. Sure it was doable, but he would have had to produce a peak performance to do it. And for what? ROC would have been well ahead anyways and the US is going to win silver.

 

[el henry]

Was there at least one jump of a Tiger that was not UR?

I would need to look at the protocols, I'm not one to scour the rotations. I was talking about the programs I liked best.

Mark is an engaging performer and his program "speaks" to Americans, so I expect most people here liked Red Pants Jesus better. It's not do or die, win win win for a figure skating team event, so I get the feeling even the casual fan is more willing to look at the skaters and the skating, and not just the country.

The way it should be.

 

[Blades of Passion]

And if you're going to say Zhou should have beaten Kagiyama for a loss of 3 points, that's BS - then you should also then say Karen should have come 2nd to Higuchi.

As usual you distort the plot.

USA could have finished 1st in the Men's LP, whereas they were never going to finish higher than 3rd in the Women's event if Russia and Japan skated clean.

If Zhou was considered to be a suitable replacement for Nathan Chen in the LP, then the onus was absolutely on him to win the segment. He failed to do so. Exactly as I said would happen.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

As usual you distort the plot.

USA could have finished 1st in the Men's LP, whereas they were never going to finish higher than 3rd in the Women's event if Russia and Japan skated clean.

If Zhou was considered to be a suitable replacement for Nathan Chen in the LP, then the onus was absolutely on him to win the segment. He failed to do so. Exactly as I said would happen.

Just like Karen could not have placed second. Zhou could not have placed first in the men’s LP and Chen himself might not have either. The USA could have gotten 3rd had they fielded Bell or 2nd had they fielded Liu. Fielding Karen wasn’t a good choice although it didn’t compromise the medal colour in the end. Unlike what you thought, the gold was never in the US’ grasp. Look at the final standings.

Straw man argument as always. If Karen was considered a suitable replacement for Liu then she should have come 3rd, to use your logic. Of course the difference being Karen had the ability to get 3rd. Whereas it would have been impossible for Zhou to get 1st after how Kagiyama skated. You wanna fault him for not beating Mark sure but it’s unfair to say the onus on him was to pull 209 points when Chen himself hasn’t even gotten that score internationally this season.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Your whole post is a straw man, ugh. The same nonsense.

Liu could not have finished 2nd. Her condition is not good. If she was actually capable of skating like she did at the very beginning of the season, then she would have been selected for this event over Karen. But that's not the reality of the situation. The reality is that Alysa Liu is dealing with growth spurts and other issues. Mariah Bell did not have a higher scoring potential than Karen, nor did she have a better average SP score this season. Karen was the correct choice for the SP.

the gold was never in the US’ grasp.

Yes it was. There were simply MISTAKES that happened. If USA skated to their potential in each segment, they would have won the Team Event. That is a fact and you should seek out a math teacher if you need help understanding it. The chance of skating to their potential was inherently destroyed by the decision to not put Nathan Chen in the LP.

In no other sport does something like this happen. Nobody sends Michael Jordan to the Olympics and then just sits him in the semi-finals because they are scared he'll get "too tired" in the finals.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I think I'd they really wanted to split they could have swapped. Vincent is a much stronger SP skater than free skater while for Nathan it doesn't matter

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Your whole post is a straw man, ugh. The same nonsense.

Liu could not have finished 2nd. Her condition is not good. If she was actually capable of skating like she did at the very beginning of the season, then she would have been selected for this event over Karen. But that's not the reality of the situation. The reality is that Alysa Liu is dealing with growth spurts and other issues. Mariah Bell did not have a higher scoring potential than Karen, nor did she have a better average SP score this season. Karen was the correct choice for the SP.



Yes it was. There were simply MISTAKES that happened. If USA skated to their potential in each segment, they would have won the Team Event. That is a fact and you should seek out a math teacher if you need help understanding it. The chance of skating to their potential was inherently destroyed by the decision to not put Nathan Chen in the LP.

In no other sport does something like this happen. Nobody sends Michael Jordan to the Olympics and then just sits him in the semi-finals because they are scared he'll get "too tired" in the finals.

Gurl…. The US were behind by NINE points in the end.

They are frankly fortunate ROC didn’t win by double digits. Had S/K done better in ID and had there not been such a tight gap in the team pairs SP, that would have been the case.

As I - and probably the majority of others - correctly predicted, it was a runaway for ROC and the US was fighting for silver. The US simply lacks the firepower in women and pairs whereas Russia has men as their only weak discipline and Kondratiuk delivered in both segments. It was Sochi all over again, except with a higher ranked/reigning WC ice dance team this time around, and a mentally stronger Russian man.

ROC came into this with two reigning world champions and Valieva. ROC won 2nd and 1st pairs, both womens segments, was (correctly) upset in ID to come second in both segments, and exceeded expectations in men by coming 3rd and 2nd. That is an EASY gold.

Say what you want but pairs/women did the US in. As much as you stan Karen, she lost to *Schizas* in both segments. Also, as many people that weren’t you also predicted, Nathan Chen in the FS would have still resulted in a comfortable ROC gold. And that’s just basic math, sis.

Also, please don’t give me that “if they skated to their potential” garbage… conveniently not recognizing other skates the US managed to beat didn’t skate to their potential either - if S/K skated to their potential in the RD and didn’t have an extended lift in the FD the US would be even further behind ROC.

I could surmise that if Roman and MT/M and G/P skated as well as they could then Canada could have made a better bid for bronze. But they didn’t.

Sorry, but you were just incredibly idealistic and paid very poor attention to the landscape of the disciplines across the countries…. The US team gold medal was your pipe dream and while issues with S/K in ice dance and Sui/Han winning the pairs SP where SK/F got a surprise 3rd might have teased a prospect of US being able to challenge Russia, as expected, Karen’s SP negated that advantage … and then SK/F and Karen’s FS completely ended that prospect, which was pretty non-existent in the first place.

You should just appreciate that your fave Karen has an Olympic silver medal, in spite of performing below expectations in both segments with 5th and 4th place finishes (But let’s continue to point fingers at Zhou!). And, feel free to blissfully enjoy your AU where Karen Chen “skated to her potential” (the same one where you imagine her not receiving any tech calls due to her flawless technique).

 

[moonvine]

Okay, and now it looks like Vincent is having a bad day. Too late. They should have picked Jason!!! Just sayin! Jason has proven on plenty of occasions just what he can do in high pressure situations. And with his artistry, even sans quads, Jason could have delivered a high placement. Vincent is tanking. Will the U.S. salvage at least silver or bronze even? Russia certainly has the gold at this point.

No drama at all for ice dance FD now. What a complete downer! Oy vey. And seriously, I personally did not like either Vincent or Karen being chosen to compete in the team event!!!!

Serves U.S. fed right. They always make wrong decisions. They can't see the forest for the trees. Yes, some tough decisions, but I would not have hesitated to put Jason in the mix and go with Mariah. The results could not have been any worse than they are now. And they could have vastly improved.

I posted an article from SI elsewhere that indicated they weren’t concerned about the gold and that not only did they tell Karen Chen a month ago that she would be skating the TE but that Nathan had volunteered to skate both parts and was turned down. Had Nathan skated both parts they could have subbed out women’s or pairs. But I guess they really wanted Vincent to have a medal.

 

[moonvine]

USA was put into a corner where they have to put up unreliable skaters. It is what it is.

No they weren’t. Nathan offered to skate both parts and was turned down.

 

[moonvine]

LOL! Yeah, I forgot about young Ilia. U.S. fed decided to give Vincent some experience at the last Olympics. They'd have been better off giving Ilia some experience at this Olympics, sans Vincent btw, not sans Jason. LOL for days. Yep, Vincent has never been a favorite of mine. Sometimes he delivers stellar performances (but not with the artistry some people seem to think he has, mind you). And apparently when least expected, and at inopportune moments, he gets the yips.

With the poor performance that Vincent put out in the fp at U.S. Nationals, he should have been in fourth behind Jason, and let 1,2,3 be the team, without any further drama, actually. No need for Vincent falling on his face, when he had already badly botched the fp at Nationals. The dumbfounding U.S. fed judging panel, simply decided to give Vincent a 'get out of jail free and go to the Olympics card,' instead of dumping him. And then they made a huge drama out of selecting Jason over young-gun talent, Ilia. Once again, it should have been Ilia over Vincent.

This ain't a good statement either for Vincent in the individual events. Let's just say that neither Vincent, nor Boyang are gonna see the podium in the individual events. Too much better talent is ahead of them!

Good grief. What are the numbers and placements at this point. I'm lost.

The choice was never between Vincent and Jason unless US Fed tossed their whole selection criteria in the fire…Nathan was priority 1, Vincent priority 2 and Jason and Ilya priority 3.

 

[moonvine]

We have autocorrect????? how do I turn it on?

I have it on my phone. But it tried to turn “snow” into “abortion” yesterday so I don’t trust it a lot.