2023 World Figure Skating Championships Women's Free Skate

[macy]

They should have sent Thorngren. Even if Lindsay have had a rough year (growing issues?) she is the best young skater US has to offer imo.
Amber is unreliable and she never completes her combos.

Lindsay would have been buried.

 

[emilinkaa]

Why US skaters try not to combos later if somebody fails? I just read's Janna's interview and she says they have trained to get the failed ones done later it in practices.

I was asking myself the same question, because I remember reading an interview with (I think) Michelle Kwan about how they would do that back when she was competing (late 90s, early 2000s) and now it doesn't seem like it's done as often?

 

[skatedreamer]

They should have sent Thorngren. Even if Lindsay have had a rough year (growing issues?) she is the best young skater US has to offer imo.
Amber is unreliable and she never completes her combos.

Lindsay is lovely to watch and I think she has a lot of potential; thanks for recognizing her talent!

Many US fans (including me) have high hopes for Lindsay. However, I also believe she needs more international experience before she can be a viable part of a Worlds team. Lindsay's moment is coming but IMO Amber was still the right choice for this year.

 

[Jontor]

I wonder why they insist of having Isabeau doing the 3Lz+3Lo combo in the free. There is no point anymore when it's allowed to do 2A sequences as combos. It is just super difficult and risky to do the Loop and no added value.
Isabeau should instead start with a 3Lz+2A sequence and then when she does her first 2A she changes that to 3Lo instead. That's much easier. This would have the exact same BV and would actually give her more points as she will get more GOE (GOE on the 3Lo instead of the 2A).

The point of doing the Loop combo was so that you can do two Lutzes and Flips (Zagitova). And Shcherbakova needed it so she could do two 3Lzs beside her two 4Lzs.

Loop combos are superhard and has no added value in itself, just the opportunity to do other difficult jumps. Even the jump specialist Trusova gave up on the Loop combo because it was not worth it. And it certainly isn't worth it now when you can do 2A sequences.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

At Japanese Nationals usually Wakaba posts faster speeds than Kaori does. But, that might be top speed instead of average speed since Wakaba usually has more varied programs than Kaori who loves to speed around the ice.

Yep, Wakaba is also super fast. (Both Kaori and Wakaba were faster than Shoma at Japanese Nats in 2019 )

I honestly would love for there to be a database of all of the measurements and maps made at Japanese Nats, it would be so interesting to see how they change over the years and how skaters compare to each other.

 

[Zora]

see, Kurakova team? the right packaging does half of the job.

I know not everyone likes Kurakova's packaging, but I think it suits her very well and she adds some diversity to the programs we have seen at worlds, even if her programs are all rather similar. I don't really want her to skate to Experience or POTO.
Also I think she would fall short in comparison if she decided to skate to other styles of music, so it's better to stick to what she's best at.

 

[Kris135]

I'm trying to think of who could have saved the 3 US spots if we swapped out Amber or Bradie: I have yet to come up with a name. Sounds like the rules are working as they should. Hopefully this will light a fire under our women.

I can think of one that might have been able to do it. Last year's national champion Mariah Bell. I know she retired from competitive skating last fall but she was 4th in last year's worlds and you have wonder if the USFS had made more an effort to keep her competitive ranks at least for this season it might have made a huge difference. I mean she could had a real chance for a world medal this year she just missed last year. I wished the USFS had spilt their support between Brandie and Mariah instead of giving it all to Bradie. Mariah Bell was usually super stable and reliable and am sure that she could have placed in the top 10 at least and most likely much higher than that.
I think though to he USFS has start making very hard choices on who to fund and who going to get the federation support because what we are doing now is clearly not working. Start really looking at hard facts and for gods sake stop using body of work as the main factor on being named to world team. If young skater has the stake of their life at Nationals send them instead of the person who places 5-6th but has a slightly better body of work.

 

[purplecat]

I wonder why they insist of having Isabeau doing the 3Lz+3Lo combo in the free. There is no point anymore when it's allowed to do 2A sequences as combos. It is just super difficult and risky to do the Loop and no added value.
Isabeau should instead start with a 3Lz+2A sequence and then when she does her first 2A she changes that to 3Lo instead. That's much easier. This would have the exact same BV and would actually give her more points as she will get more GOE (GOE on the 3Lo instead of the 2A).

The point of doing the Loop combo was so that you can do two Lutzes and Flips (Zagitova). And Shcherbakova needed it so she could do two 3Lzs beside her two 4Lzs.

Loop combos are superhard and has no added value in itself, just the opportunity to do other difficult jumps. Even the jump specialist Trusova gave up on the Loop combo because it was not worth it. And it certainly isn't worth it now when you can do 2A sequences.

I totally agree and thought this all season long - why make it harder on yourself? Why not take advantage of the sequence rule and use the double axels like 90% of others are doing (Loena also does two solo 2As and I think - why?) And when Isabeau fell on the first jump why doesn't she have an automatic backup plan - she could have done a solo loop and a 2A2A sequence or at the very least tack on a double loop to one of her double axels. I blame her coaches for not preparing her for this. I know it happened earlier this year too cause I remember wondering why she stuck to her original layout without adding a missed jump. Hopefully her team will rethink this strategy for next year!

 

[Jontor]

I totally agree and thought this all season long - why make it harder on yourself? Why not take advantage of the sequence rule and use the double axels like 90% of others are doing (Loena also does two solo 2As and I think - why?) And when Isabeau fell on the first jump why doesn't she have an automatic backup plan - she could have done a solo loop and a 2A2A sequence or at the very least tack on a double loop to one of her double axels. I blame her coaches for not preparing her for this. I know it happened earlier this year too cause I remember wondering why she stuck to her original layout without adding a missed jump. Hopefully her team will rethink this strategy for next year!

I actually think her team just doesn't know better. They do it because they see the Russians used to do it.

When it comes to figure skating, it is a lot about making the numbers work, and you have to calculate so it does suit the skater. I'm afraid a lot of coaches might not be so good with numbers.

 

[skatedreamer]

I totally agree and thought this all season long - why make it harder on yourself? Why not take advantage of the sequence rule and use the double axels like 90% of others are doing (Loena also does two solo 2As and I think - why?) And when Isabeau fell on the first jump why doesn't she have an automatic backup plan - she could have done a solo loop and a 2A2A sequence or at the very least tack on a double loop to one of her double axels. I blame her coaches for not preparing her for this. I know it happened earlier this year too cause I remember wondering why she stuck to her original layout without adding a missed jump. Hopefully her team will rethink this strategy for next year!

I don't understand the technical details (as in which jump to use and when) but it's only common sense to have a backup.

Come to think of it, it's not much different from hiding a key to your house somewhere or leaving one with a neighbor in case you get locked out. Or keeping a paper copy of your driver's license or passport or backing up documents online. Stuff happens; why not be prepared?

 

[purplecat]

Speaking about combos and improvising - I have a question about Mai. She did three combos but got the +REP on her second lutz cause she already did a single triple lutz. I thought her last combo would get invalidated cause I thought the +REP was seen as a combo but looking at the protocol the last combo counted. Just wondering how the scoring works for that... like if she actually did four combos the last would get invalidated, right? So does the +REP become the invalidated combo? I just didn't think she could add the last one since she had already done two combos plus the +REP. Just trying to educate myself on the system!

 

[Jontor]

Speaking about combos and improvising - I have a question about Mai. She did three combos but got the +REP on her second lutz cause she already did a single triple lutz. I thought her last combo would get invalidated cause I thought the +REP was seen as a combo but looking at the protocol the last combo counted. Just wondering how the scoring works for that... like if she actually did four combos the last would get invalidated, right? So does the +REP become the invalidated combo? I just didn't think she could add the last one since she had already done two combos plus the +REP. Just trying to educate myself on the system!

The +REP doesn't count as a combo. It just lowers the BV like it was a UR.

 

[Jeanie19]

I actually think her team just doesn't know better. They do it because they see the Russians used to do it.

When it comes to figure skating, it is a lot about making the numbers work, and you have to calculate so it does suit the skater. I'm afraid a lot of coaches might not be so good with numbers.

I'm not great on how much each jump is worth , but isn't 3lutz, 3toe combo then solo 3loop worth more or the same as 3lutz 3loop combo then solo 3Toe.

 

[purplecat]

The +REP doesn't count as a combo. It just lowers the BV like it was a UR.

Thank you so much for the explanation!

 

[Jeanie19]

I can think of one that might have been able to do it. Last year's national champion Mariah Bell. I know she retired from competitive skating last fall but she was 4th in last year's worlds and you have wonder if the USFS had made more an effort to keep her competitive ranks at least for this season it might have made a huge difference. I mean she could had a real chance for a world medal this year she just missed last year. I wished the USFS had spilt their support between Brandie and Mariah instead of giving it all to Bradie. Mariah Bell was usually super stable and reliable and am sure that she could have placed in the top 10 at least and most likely much higher than that.
I think though to he USFS has start making very hard choices on who to fund and who going to get the federation support because what we are doing now is clearly not working. Start really looking at hard facts and for gods sake stop using body of work as the main factor on being named to world team. If young skater has the stake of their life at Nationals send them instead of the person who places 5-6th but has a slightly better body of work.

And they need Shin Amato to be the tech controller for the ladies junior and senior. So the jumps get called like they may at Worlds. And the US needs to stop the PC's love of their favorites. We now have 2 spots, Isabeau is probably getting one. So the second spot needs to go to the best that night, not necessarily a favorite.

 

[snd]

Yep, Wakaba is also super fast. (Both Kaori and Wakaba were faster than Shoma at Japanese Nats in 2019 )

I honestly would love for there to be a database of all of the measurements and maps made at Japanese Nats, it would be so interesting to see how they change over the years and how skaters compare to each other.

sorry for the off topic question but who is the girl in your profile picture?

 

[Jontor]

I'm not great on how much each jump is worth , but isn't 3lutz, 3toe combo then solo 3loop worth more or the same as 3lutz 3loop combo then solo 3Toe.

The thing is that in combos you only get GOE on the most difficult jump.
So if you do a 3Lz+3Lo and then a solo 3T - you get GOE on the 3Lz and the 3T.
If you do a 3Lz+3T and then a solo 3Lo - you get GOE on the 3Lz and the 3Lo.
So in this case it is just stupid to do the +3Lo combo as you get less GOE.

That's why a very good combo to do is 2A+3T because you get GOE on the 3T and you need to do the 2A anyway.

So, as I said above, in Isabeau's case, she is actually lowering her scoring potential by doing the stupid +3Lo combo.

The BV value of the jumps are:

3A 8.00
3Lz 5.90
3F 5.30
3Lo 4.90
3S 4.30
3T 4.20
2A 3.30

In combos you just add the BVs together but you only get GOE on the more valuable jump.
So the most valuable combo would be 3Lz+Eul+3F like Kurakova did. It's a great combo which allows her to do a single 3Lz and 3F later...except she doesn't do the 3F again. Instead, she loses valuable GOE on the 3F in that combo. So it is not a good layout in the end.

Another thing is that the last three jump passes (if they are in the second half of the program) has a 10% higher BV, but you don't get 10% extra GOE.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I was asking myself the same question, because I remember reading an interview with (I think) Michelle Kwan about how they would do that back when she was competing (late 90s, early 2000s) and now it doesn't seem like it's done as often?

A lot of skaters/teams still do it. For example, Bradie, Mai and Loena all switched around their combinations in the Free today after mistakes on their jumps. Amber just categorically doesn't do three combos in the Free (maybe she doesn't have the stamina?), and Isabeau's coaches seem to be the only ones who genuinely do not prepare her for situations like this. Like I said, this is not the first time she made a mistake and didn't have a backup plan.

I'm not great on how much each jump is worth , but isn't 3lutz, 3toe combo then solo 3loop worth more or the same as 3lutz 3loop combo then solo 3Toe.

3Lz+3T and solo 3Lo is worth the same as 3Lz+3Lo and solo 3T. In terms of GOE, the first option is actually even a better choice as the GOE would be calculated on the BV of 3Lz and 3Lo, instead of 3Lz and 3T.

sorry for the off topic question but who is the girl in your profile picture?

Eunsoo Lim, (former?) Korean figure skater, 2018 Rostelecom Cup bronze medalist.

 

[elektra blue]

I know not everyone likes Kurakova's packaging, but I think it suits her very well and she adds some diversity to the programs we have seen at worlds, even if her programs are all rather similar. I don't really want her to skate to Experience or POTO.

there are other things besides boring warhorses, other emotions to explore and convey and other packaging aside 12 yo or Disneyworld parade dancer and maybe she would excell in that too given the chance. this is a sport but also an art, and artists and atheltes want to challenge themselves from time to time

 

[CoyoteChris]

It is interesting how the non-Russian skaters got stronger once you dangled medals in front of them like a carrot.

The skater who identifies herself as Russian hasnt done very well in this event...and seems to get weaker...