Should JSF push Marin Honda as No.1?

[MaiKatze]

Of course Marin has to show more results before she can get the kind of status Mao is getting. This is why they should push her now. She is and should be the face of Japan skating. She has potential and face and skating skills. Push her.

I didn't say those girls got beat with an ugly stick. They just don't look a certain way that is marketable. You wouldn't understand unless you look at all the ads in Japan. It's a certain look they are after. If you think otherwise, nothing else to say.

You said that Wakaba isn't lucky in the looks department. How are we supposed to take that? And, even though it might be very hard to imagine, there are other posters on this forum who have been to Japan, even speak the language and also had a look at their ads in magazines and on tv. I still don't see why Wakaba hasn't got that look. She could easily be an actress or in an idol group ála AKB48. But... yes, you're right. There is nothing else to say.

 

[gotoschool]

People are so sensitive now aday. Miss Mao was peddling the stupid mattress, airweave, in Ginza and that's why I brought up the princess and the pea. No one will believe Wakaba with the mattress but they will with Mao and Marin. That's just fact. I happen to go to Japan all the time so I see it. Satoko can win 20 championships and she's still nobody. Same with wakaba, mai, all other girls who aren't lucky in the look department. You have to have a certain kind of look.
Miki is a different story, she can sell crap herself even though she wasn't considered a traditional Japanese beauty. She's more exotic, a counter example to Mao.

You want a girl who has potential and look so you can market and sell. Ads don't come to figure skating unless they have a good reason to. So yes, they want Marin as #1.

Mao happens to suffer from fairly chronic back pain because of doing the one handed and two handed Biellmann for so many years, though she hardly ever mentions it. The Airweave mattresses she carries with her to competitions and sleeps on helps relieve her back pain. So, I think she believes in the usefulness of what you deem a "stupid" product that you say she allegedly stoops to peddling.

It isn't only an insult to Wakaba and Satoko to say they don't have the right look but it also an insult to Mao and Marin to suggest their primary value is in their ability to market products, not the quality of their skating.

 

[Rissa]

I don't think Marin is as emotionally fragile as everyone says. Yes, she doesn't skate cleanly especially when under pressure, but compared to her track record last season she's already a lot more consistent. I personally believe that because Marin grew up in front of TV cameras, thanks to her own talents and famous family, she tends to be more expressive (maybe even dramatic) about how she's feeling. Hence the tears of relief at JGP Yokohoma, and tears at age 15 don't mean that you're weak forever. Wakaba wept when she lost out on JGPF last season. Look at how strong she is today.

That said, JSF would be foolish to push her as #1 now when Japan already has talented senior ladies skaters. If she crushes the senior GP and wins the national championship next season, then we can talk.

Personally, the fact that she cries after a bad skate is not the reason I find Marin emotionally fragile. It's because during the jgp circuit she looked scared regardless of how she skated, terrified after a bad one, and a good score was a reason for relief rather than joy. Often when waiting for the score she looked as if she was facing the firing squad, and not just after a bad skate. That kid looked under tremendous pressure and didn't look like she was dealing with it well.

Where does Wakaba look like a peasant? If were only going by looks I think Wakaba has nothing to fear. She is beautiful and looks like a lady and mature for her age. She's just not as expressive as others, but that can come with time. And better programs. Sorry, but her programs are a bore. If she wants to medal she has to have better programs next season.

I think FlatFann regards Wakaba's stocky figure that way?

But I disagree with Wakaba not being expressive and having bad programs. I find her the most expressive out of the top 4 Japanese girls, and her programs more engaging than Marin's.

I actually think Wakaba is expressive in her individual way. Scheherazade is a bit generic but her La Califfa SP is amazing. The maturity and improved skating skills shine in that program. It gives me chills every time I watch it. I always try to see beyond a skater's shortcomings so I've always preferred Wakaba over Marin since they were both juniors, even though Marin had the superior programs/choreography. I can see and connect with Wakaba's personality which is written all over her skating. Marin is something like Marilyn Monroe, she attracts attention because she feeds on attention. She knows how to work with the camera and the audience because she's been doing that since she was born. I guess that's what leaves me cold. I can appreciate her great skating skills and musicality but the fact that she's "camera pro" doesn't make her a better skater than Satoko, Mai, Wakaba, Yuna.

I agree on Wakaba's expressiveness but I quite like Marin too. She's lovely to watch, as some else said, she's the genuine princess act and I'm not a fan of princesses either. If I had to puck, though, yep, Wakaba over Marin at this point.

I was about to say this because all of this talk about Wakaba was getting me massively confused. Wakaba is very beautiful per Asian standards which frankly is all that counts anyway in terms of any potential sponsorship or ad deals, in terms of beauty. Plus I think she's beautiful in general, I am really not sure how this is 'unlucky' in the looks department. I hereby volunteer to be this unlucky. From a purely personal point of view, I find her to be more beautiful than Marin.

What will make her more attractive? What Meoima said goes for her too. If she starts being successful on the international scene, that's the main draw.

Yes, I think Wakaba's face is the prettiest out of all Japanese girls with the exception of Kanako. She's not slender and willowy like Marin but she moves very gracefully. It's pretty amazing to eatch because from her figure I'd expect she'd move more like Liza Tuk, but she's very fluid to my eyes.

Well, here's to hoping they'll both Eakaba and Marin gain consistency because I think they've got a lot to offer.

 

[FlattFan]

Mao happens to suffer from fairly chronic back pain because of doing the one handed and two handed Biellmann for so many years, though she hardly ever mentions it. The Airweave mattresses she carries with her to competitions and sleeps on helps relieve her back pain. So, I think she believes in the usefulness of what you deem a "stupid" product that you say she allegedly stoops to peddling.

It isn't only an insult to Wakaba and Satoko to say they don't have the right look but it also an insult to Mao and Marin to suggest their primary value is in their ability to market products, not the quality of their skating.

Oh please, the airweave mattress also helped me. You don't see them giving me money to help sell the mattress. You also don't see them giving money to other skaters with back problem (hint: all of them).
The point is not the usefulness of the product that she's peddling. The point is someone picked her to peddle the product and not anyone of the dozen girls who have back problem.

How is it insulting when that is exactly what companies want to represent their products? Their value to the companies are their ability to sell products. Do you think companies give a crap about quality of skating? Stop projecting nonsense to what I said.

 

[Mrs. P]

Well if Marin has the image to sell whatever because she has the look, then she doesn't need fed backing! Case closed.

FWIW, fed backing and a million endorsements didn't really help Nancy Kerrigan circa 1993 Worlds.

 

[Eloyse]

Oh please, the airweave mattress also helped me. You don't see them giving me money to help sell the mattress. You also don't see them giving money to other skaters with back problem (hint: all of them).
The point is not the usefulness of the product that she's peddling. The point is someone picked her to peddle the product and not anyone of the dozen girls who have back problem.

How is it insulting when that is exactly what companies want to represent their products? Their value to the companies are their ability to sell products. Do you think companies give a crap about quality of skating? Stop projecting nonsense to what I said.

For your information, Wakaba is sponsored by a skin care company and prince hotel. And honestly if you think Wakaba looks like a peasant then you don't understand Japanese aesthetics.

 

[Meoima]

Well if Marin has the image to sell whatever because she has the look, then she doesn't need fed backing! Case closed.
FWIW, fed backing and a million endorsements didn't really help Nancy Kerrigan circa 1993 Worlds.

Yes and Nancy lost the Olympic against an Ukrainian girl with horrible costumes and hair, who was from a super weak and new federation.

 

[hippomoomin]

I think Yuna SHIRAIWA could be a dark house. She is undergoing a growth spurt but managed to get 3rd in the LP at Japanese National. Her recent exhibition makes me think she has great potential. Speaking of pretty face, she has it. When both without makeup, she looks prettier than Marin in my opinion. I watched a number of Honda sisters' non-skating videos and found Marin without makeup could look a little strange.

 

[topaz emerald]

Well if Marin has the image to sell whatever because she has the look, then she doesn't need fed backing! Case closed.

FWIW, fed backing and a million endorsements didn't really help Nancy Kerrigan circa 1993 Worlds.

It didn't help MK win gold at Olympics either.

 

[topaz emerald]

I think they are obviously backing satoko since she won Japanese nationals.

 

[[email protected]]

Marin is a dark horse at the moment same as Polina T. The moment of truth will be the next junior worlds. The key thing to Marin is how she fares against Polina T who beat her (and everyone else) whenever they competed against each other last season. The key thing to both is how they are going to fare against Alina who after her 2nd place in the RUSSIAN SENIOR NATIONALS is likely to surpass 210 if clean. If Marin loses to both (I don't even speak about Gubanova who is also "200 material") I see no point to push her anywhere....although besides Mao I like Marin'sskating most of all other Japanese ladies, seniors or juniors.

 

[Rissa]

]

Marin is a dark horse at the moment same as Polina T. The moment of truth will be the next junior worlds. The key thing to Marin is how she fares against Polina T who beat her (and everyone else) whenever they competed against each other last season. The key thing to both is how they are going to fare against Alina who after her 2nd place in the RUSSIAN SENIOR NATIONALS is likely to surpass 210 if clean. If Marin loses to both (I don't even speak about Gubanova who is also "200 material") I see no point to push her anywhere....although besides Mao I like Marin'sskating most of all other Japanese ladies, seniors or juniors.

No, not really. Not everything in the world revolves around Russian girls, you know.

 

[[email protected]]

]



No, not really. Not everything in the world revolves around Russian girls, you know.

Around which junior girls does everything revolve? If Marin loses to 3 or even 2 junior Russians why Japanese Fed should push her above Satoko who just beat senior Russian #2 (not deservedly, imo, but that's a different story).

 

[Ares]

Marin is a dark horse at the moment same as Polina T. The moment of truth will be the next junior worlds. The key thing to Marin is how she fares against Polina T who beat her (and everyone else) whenever they competed against each other last season. The key thing to both is how they are going to fare against Alina who after her 2nd place in the RUSSIAN SENIOR NATIONALS is likely to surpass 210 if clean. If Marin loses to both (I don't even speak about Gubanova who is also "200 material") I see no point to push her anywhere....although besides Mao I like Marin'sskating most of all other Japanese ladies, seniors or juniors.

Does Konstantinova stand a chance at making into Junior Worlds? I mean she was second best from Juniors in Seniors Nationals in Chelyabinsk this season above Gubanova.

 

[[email protected]]

Does Konstantinova stand a chance at making into Junior Worlds? I mean she was second best from Juniors in Seniors Nationals in Chelyabinsk this season above Gubanova.

I think she does in fact. She is going to be 17 next summer. For her it looks like the last chance to go senior after a good splash in juniors. Gubanova is still 14 and how puberty will affect her is not clear. So the Fed will likely give Konstantinova a good chance during the Russian juniors. But she is so unstable while Gubanova in general is much more consistent than a year ago. It will be an interesting competition between them. And Liza N might give them a good fight in her native city. If she fixed her URs with her charm and artistry she cannot be discarded. Will be a very interesting competition - glad I am going. And Marin, well, is the reigning WC. But to defend the title won't be an easy breeze. The junior competition in Russia is much more fierce this year. And unless Polina T is in perfect shape they won't let her be in the team. I am sure it will be the full 3 skater team. Then we add a dependable Kaori and Rika who might show 3A again. And suddenly I am not sure where Marin will end up at JWC. Hence, the opening question is quite premature. Let's discuss who is going to push whom once the 2017 worlds are over.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

^ Yuna Shiraiwa is going to JWC, not Rika Kihira.

 

[[email protected]]

Sad, I like Rika better. Is she injured or just lost the junior nationals?

 

[Li'Kitsu]

She has a bad knee injury and didn't skate all that well lately, so she didn't qualify for senior nationals.

 

[Spinning]

She has a bad knee injury and didn't skate all that well lately, so she didn't qualify for senior nationals.

Very sorry to hear about her injury. But can't help wonder about the news, is it related to her 3A practice somehow? Her technical layouts are insanely demanding for any teenagers.

Hope to see her back next season.

 

[FlattFan]

For your information, Wakaba is sponsored by a skin care company and prince hotel. And honestly if you think Wakaba looks like a peasant then you don't understand Japanese aesthetics.

being sponsored is a bit different from being in an Advertising campaign. Obviously it was a jest that Wakaba looks like a peasant next to Marin. No, she doesn't look like a peasant in general, but with Marin shines so bright, everyone looks worse next to her.