State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15

[Mrs. P]

I've updated my score tracker on the front page. If you're too lazy to go there, here you go:

OVERALL
Max Aaron 240.22* (U.S. International Classic)
Richard Dornbush 237.28* (Lombardia Trophy)
Jason Brown 237.17 (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Ross Miner 209.78 (U.S. International Classic)
Grant Hochstein 204.37* (Lombardia Trophy)
Douglas Razanno 199.57* (U.S. International Classic)
Alexander Johnson 191.41 (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Jordan Moeller 189.81* (U.S. International Classic)
Shotaro Omori 165.97 (JGP Ljubljana Cup)

SP
Jason Brown 83.59 (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Richard Dornbush 79.36 (Lombardia Trophy)
Max Aaron 78.96* (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Grant Hochstein 72.92* (Lombardia Trophy)
Alexander Johnson 69.20* (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Ross Miner 67.06 (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Douglas Razzano 66.15* (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Jordan Moeller 64.21 (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Shotaro Omori 58.82 (JGP Ljubljana Cup)

SP TES
Jason Brown 43.50
Richard Dornbush 42.51
Max Aaron 41.01
Grant Hochstein 37.97
Douglas Razzano 33.85
Alexander Johnson 33.29
Shotaro Omori 32.71
Jordan Moeller 31.71
Ross Miner 30.46

SP PCS
Jason Brown 40.09
Max Aaron 38.95
Richard Dornbush 37.85
Ross Miner 36.60
Alexander Johnson 35.91
Grant Hochstein 34.95
Jordan Moeller 33.50
Douglas Razzano 33.30
Shotaro Omori 28.11

FS
Max Aaron 161.26
Richard Dornbush 157.92*
Jason Brown 153.58
Ross Miner 142.72
Douglas Razzano 133.42*
Grant Hochstein 131.45*
Jordan Moeller 125.60*
Alexander Johnson 122.21*
Shotaro Omori 107.15

TES
Max Aaron 83.46
Richard Dornbush 76.92
Jason Brown 67.74
Ross Miner 67.72
Douglas Razzano 64.32
Grant Hochstein 62.35
Jordan Moeller 60.70
Alexander Johnson 53.55
Shotaro Omori 47.43

PCS

Jason Brown 85.84*
Richard Dornbush 81.00*
Max Aaron 78.80*
Ross Miner 75.00
Grant Hochstein 71.10*
Douglas Razzano 70.10*
Alexander Johnson 69.66*
Jordan Moeller 66.90*
Shotaro Omori 60.72



*ISU Personal Best

 

[samson]

^Thanks Mrs P! Always bringing fresh and valuable perspective to the skating season by putting these lists together!

 

[Mrs. P]

One fun scoring thing. Basically I gave points to the top 5 in each category (Total; SP, SP TES, SP PCS, FS, FS TES, FS PCS) and added it up. The points were 15-13-11-9-7 (Just like Grand Prix).

Here's what I got:

Jason Brown — 93
Max Aaron — 91
Richard Dornbush — 89
Ross Miner — 45
Grant Hochstein — 32
Douglas Razzano -21
Alexander Johnson - 14

Basically our current top two cleaned up the top spot in all categories:

Max: Overall score, FS total, FS TES; Elsewhere: SP (3rd); SP TES (3rd); SP PCS (2nd) FS PCS (3rd)
Jason: SP total, SP TES, SP PCS, FS PCS; Elsewhere: Overall (3rd); FS (3rd); FS TES (3rd)

Richard Dornbush was second in every category except SP PCS (3rd).

I like a good battle!

 

[semosk8tfan]

Thanks for the analysis Mrs P!

I am rooting for Richard. I loved his performance in Italy. I hope this is "his season"

 

[samson]

One fun scoring thing. Basically I gave points to the top 5 in each category (Total; SP, SP TES, SP PCS, FS, FS TES, FS PCS) and added it up. The points were 15-13-11-9-7 (Just like Grand Prix).

Here's what I got:

Jason Brown — 93
Max Aaron — 91
Richard Dornbush — 89
Ross Miner — 45
Grant Hochstein — 32
Douglas Razzano -21
Alexander Johnson - 14

Basically our current top two cleaned up the top spot in all categories:

Max: Overall score, FS total, FS TES; Elsewhere: SP (3rd); SP TES (3rd); SP PCS (2nd) FS PCS (3rd)
Jason: SP total, SP TES, SP PCS, FS PCS; Elsewhere: Overall (3rd); FS (3rd); FS TES (3rd)

Richard Dornbush was second in every category except SP PCS (3rd).

I like a good battle!

Lovin' these analysis! You know I think you're points system gets at an interesting thought for me. I know that overall Max outscored Jason, but for some reason I got an overall stronger impression from Jason's performance as a whole package and in my mind I still have him ahead even though I know IJS points wise Max technically has the edge there. Ultimately I think those two guys are very close and it will be fun to see how they both stack up against each other as the season goes. Both skaters have qualities I really like and I think they are about as diametrically opposed for two elite skaters as you can get.

 

[Mrs. P]

Lovin' these analysis! You know I think you're points system gets at an interesting thought for me. I know that overall Max outscored Jason, but for some reason I got an overall stronger impression from Jason's performance as a whole package and in my mind I still have him ahead even though I know IJS points wise Max technically has the edge there. Ultimately I think those two guys are very close and it will be fun to see how they both stack up against each other as the season goes. Both skaters have qualities I really like and I think they are about as diametrically opposed for two elite skaters as you can get.

I think what it comes down that each of them (and their respective coaching teams) has a different strategy. Jason's team has always been about the overall package and finding additional point opportunities. Other than maybe the most hard core skating fans (and his detractors) you couldn't tell/care whether Jason had four < in his FS. You're going to go back and watch it not because of the jumps but because of the cohesive storytelling and packaging of all the elements.

I think Max's success has been in having programs that allow him to do the jumps well. That doesn't mean Max is devoid of artistry or anything, but I feel like Max's most successful programs have been when he can just jump and use his solid ice coverage and speed.

I think Richard should not be counted out either. He has very solid basic skating skills and nice flow when it all works together. I think he does really well with very story-or theme-driven programs. His Sherlock program from the 2010-2011 season is still one of my favorites.

We'll see where Jeremy and Adam fit in in the next few weeks! Sadly we wont' see Josh (Cup of China) for a while due to his injuries, so we have at least a month an a half before we see how everyone sizes up.

 

[Icey]

Jasons triple axel was beautiful in the nebelhorn sp today! More confident than I've seen it in a while. Looked so clean I almost thought it was a double at first.

Also, it's worth noting that Jason, in his first major competition of the season, has already gotten a score that beats max aaron's personal best ever for the sp, without even having a quad. onder:

In the LP, Jason had a ur on the triple axel as well as 3 other jumps.

 

[LyraAngelica]

I am not a fan of Jason or Max Aaron's short programs.. I like Max trying to at least be in character for his long and Jason's long has a lot of potential. I am looking forward to seeing how they both progress over the season.

American figure skating is in dire need of breakout star and/or coach that pushes everyone to a higher technical and artistic level. I think USFSA and the coaches have grown complacent in certain areas. For example, I really enjoy what Frank Carroll tries to do with his athletes but the trying to mold "ice princess" types at the cost of technical ability will only hurt Gracie Gold. It definitely boggles my mind how quickly the US athletes went from being on the podium at worlds or the Olympics to well you all know. The rest of the world caught up and it seems no one is leading the charge for American figure skaters to do better but that's just a mid level figure skater from the dinosaur era's perspective.

 

[mrrice]

My problem with the US Men is their lack of consistency. In 2011 Ross Miner comes out with his character driven Casablanca Program. Richard Dornbush trumps him with stronger tech skills and just as much character. He won the JGPF, skated great at Worlds, and then....I can't say enough great things about Adam Rippon's skating. His posture, his lines, his quad lutz, his spins, his looks, he has it all. Except consistency.

I had faith in Keegan, Alexander Johnson, Joshua Ferris, Douglas Razzono, and a few others however, they all seem to stumble on the big stage.

Jeremy, of all the US Men, I think he's the most frustrating. So much talent, so many great performances, and then when he hits the big stage.....I think he deserves a World Medal and I hope he gets one this year. He certainly has my respect and best wishes.

At this point, I really see Jason as our best shot. He is not the strongest technically and I actually think Josh has better lines and basic skating skills. However, Jason seems to be a much better competitor. I don't think he thinks about winning when he skates and that frees him up to perform at his best. He also has IMO, one of the best coaches around. The way she speaks to him seems very genuine and he clearly loves her. The other thing about Jason is that he doesn't appear to feel pressured. He waited a long time to put his 3 axel in his programs and it may be a while before he perfects his quad.

I never thought Max would falter. He's a hockey playing student of Tom the tech man and I thought he'd be the male version of Rachael.

I have never cared about the US Men winning as much as I care about well skated performances. The wins will come.

 

[TMC]

So far so good: After four Challenger series competitions, US men have won four gold medals!

 

[Meoima]

After watching the senior B and Japan Open, I have changed my mind, Jason can medal at worlds if he got the score at Nebelhorn. All those pop jumps and zayak from Javi and other skaters make me feel devastated.

 

[TMC]

After watching the senior B and Japan Open, I have changed my mind, Jason can medal at worlds if he got the score at Nebelhorn. All those pop jumps and zayak from Javi and other skaters make me feel devastated.

I agree - theoretically.

BUT the ISU has to consider two things: a) Do we reward Jason for being a star and attracting new and former viewers back to fs, even without the quad, and b) Do we give him a medal without his even attempting a quad and thus risk the fury of the jumpsessed (jump-obsessed) fs fans?

The top guys are going to have to be zayaking left and right, zamboning the ice on ther butts and falling on spins and footwork and the like for Jason to get Bronze, I'm afraid. And I'm also afraid that a bronze is the highest he can possible expect w/o a quad.

 

[HanDomi]

to get the bronze:

a) few must bomb, because queue for podium is longer
b) he msut have totally two perfect programs


What means jump obssesed fans ? It is harsh comment. Because someone admire Hanyu jumping ability and his technic, or Javi is jump obsessed fan ?


I bet if Jason would be jumping quads like Hanyu or Javi his fans would be screaming how he is great jumper and jumps are very important ! ....

 

[Meoima]

^I am so frustrated at Javi for his zayzaking today. He lost the bronze at Olympic because of repeating that 3S yet he and his team haven't learnt the lesson???

And yes, I agree with you, for the most part.

 

[ice coverage]

After watching the senior B and Japan Open, I have changed my mind, Jason can medal at worlds if he got the score at Nebelhorn. All those pop jumps and zayak from Javi and other skaters make me feel devastated.

I love Jason, but let's not get carried away. Max and Richard have total scores from their respective Challenger events that are higher than Jason's, as documented in Mrs. P's OP.

 

[TMC]

to get the bronze:

a) few must bomb, because queue for podium is longer
b) he msut have totally two perfect programs


What means jump obssesed fans ? It is harsh comment. Because someone admire Hanyu jumping ability and his technic, or Javi is jump obsessed fan ?


I bet if Jason would be jumping quads like Hanyu or Javi his fans would be screaming how he is great jumper and jumps are very important ! ....

No no, don't get me wrong - I only meant those people who got their knickers in a mighty twist when Lysacek won over Plushenko, for example. The "you're not a man if don't do quads, you should compete with the ladies" squad.

I appreciate jumps as much as anyone else, but there are plenty of fans to whom they seem to be the be-all-and-end-all.

 

[LRK]

I agree - theoretically.

BUT the ISU has to consider two things: a) Do we reward Jason for being a star and attracting new and former viewers back to fs, even without the quad, and b) Do we give him a medal without his even attempting a quad and thus risk the fury of the jumpsessed (jump-obsessed) fs fans?

The top guys are going to have to be zayaking left and right, zamboning the ice on ther butts and falling on spins and footwork and the like for Jason to get Bronze, I'm afraid. And I'm also afraid that a bronze is the highest he can possible expect w/o a quad.

Really? Thank you.

Also, I would warn you against denigrating the quad - as I for my part am sure Jason will get one. If it were something so easy, he would have had it already - if it were of such little importance, I'm sure he wouldn't be spending ss much time and effort on acquring one. What will you say when Jason has a quad? Will you continue to despise it?

 

[Mrs. P]

Really? Thank you.

Also, I would warn you against denigrating the quad - as I for my part am sure Jason will get one. If it were something so easy, he would have had it already - if it were of such little importance, I'm sure he wouldn't be spending ss much time and effort on acquring one. What will you say when Jason has a quad? Will you continue to despise it?

I don't think TMC is hating on the quad, but rather the amount of consternation some fans give because he doesn't have one and has continued to show some success in spite of it.

That said, I think it's early. Japan Open is not a great judge of what the WC will be like.

 

[TMC]

Really? Thank you.

Also, I would warn you against denigrating the quad - as I for my part am sure Jason will get one. If it were something so easy, he would have had it already - if it were of such little importance, I'm sure he wouldn't be spending ss much time and effort on acquring one. What will you say when Jason has a quad? Will you continue to despise it?

I think you're getting me wrong.....I have absolutely nothing agains quads. By jump-obsessed I meant purely those fans who do not consider it men's figure skating if a skater doesn't do quads. And then they get angry when someone gets a medal (Lysacek) without one, as though that one jump was required, which it isn't in the CoP.

I've run across so many comments online where people are absolutely awful towards Jason (and other quadless jumpers) simply because they lack the one jump. Basically they're saying "if you can't do this, you should quit." Well I don't think they should quit, I enjoy what they bring to the table. I also enjoy watching beautiful quads. But I don't enjoy people being mean to other people.

ETA To make it clearer: I didn't mean that all fs fans are jump-obsessed. But there is a minority that is, and they are very vocal about it. There's a lot of hate making the rounds online when someone medals without a certain jump.

 

[TMC]

I don't think TMC is hating on the quad, but rather the amount of consternation some fans give because he doesn't have one and has continued to show some success in spite of it.

That said, I think it's early. Japan Open is not a great judge of what the WC will be like.

You got it.

LRK, I'm sorry that I wrote in a way that gave you the idea that I despise the quad. I certainly don't despise the quad, and I never meant to give that impression. I think there's a big gray area between despising it and thinking it is everything, and I stand pretty firmly in the middle - I can take it or leave it. Heck, Max is one of my favourites and that is largely because I admire his jumps and his speed.