2016 Rostelecom Cup Free Dance

[VIETgrlTerifa]

The problem or should say the challenge for this program is the ambiguity in terms of interpretation. The choreography has to rely heavily on shapes/forms matching the mood/feel evoked by the musical patterns.



Sometimes, contemporary programs like this FD can be either blatant or just nuanced. Madi's hand gestures/movements are very suggestive of tension, pressures or emotions depicting the issues conveyed in this music. Evan's expressions of anxiety/angst imploding are very expressive of what they intend to show. But I have to admit that because of the singular theme of the music, the program would seem one-dimensional and this is restrictive, expression-wise. The lyrics while helping convey the theme can also be restrictive. The challenge of performing it just right can be an issue - if they understate it, it would look boring and unsubstantive, if they overdo it - they'll come across as superficial and melodramatic.



This program to me is very promising _ the choreography needs to be fleshed out a little bit and elements integrated into the choreographic concept. BTW, I love, love Gilles/Poirier Tango - An Argentine Tango inspired FD. Now, theirs (G/P) has a lot of promise in terms of emoting and if they improve on that. it would be hard to beat. This tango program is very well choreographed/designed - cohesive and emotive. They just have to polish their lines and forms/moves and emoting ability and that program will be a dynamite.

Thank for such a thoughtful and eloquent reply. I do think my impression of the programs can and will change as the season progresses and the dancers settle into it. If the entire season is a marathon, then the GP Series is a real sprint and I don't think any skater has had time to regroup until December.

 

[Alex D]

Ice Dance, as it happened

I want to start by saying, that I was very pleased with the results and that I am very happy that some couples, finally get the scores they deserve.

One of these couples are the Italians Charlene Guignard and Marco Fabbri, who performed to music from the ballet of "the Nutcracker". In said ballet, we have a young lady "Mascha" who has a dream, about a Nutcracker, a little gift she actually received on Xmas. Said Nutcracker, later plays a big role in her dreams, as they fight of the evil rat king and later travel into the candy land, where they dance at a big festival.
Her role so to speak, is to first protect the helpless piece of wood and later awake the prince, to breath life back into the Nutcracker, which is well portrait by their outfits, as she has all the notes reflecting life and agility, with him being all black and "dead", except for a small detail, the notes on his right arm, symbolizing how he slowly awakes and life crawls back into him, from her.

The main focus of their FD, is of course the dance and its very impressive, how they always overcome the lack of height difference on his side, as it makes all elements even more challenging, but they cope with it just fine, especially visible at the lifts, which are always very creative and challenging, but also soft and effortless as with the rotational and straight line early on, same applies to the choreographed dance lift at the end, which is one of my favorites this season.

Besides that, both skaters showed a superb Twizzle, covering tons of ice, well aligned with great posture and calmness and I love how gently these two can skate, you don´t hear a noise and they are floating with the music, while perfectly relating to each other. A big highlight are always their transitions, they don´t have gaps in their program and are equally present, great entry into the straight line lift or the dance spin, always difficult and unique and I like their edge quality as well.

Both skaters, made the biggest improvements over the past years and rightfully won a few competitions already and I definitely see them with a chance at Europeans this year.

Second dance couple in the spotlight are Laurence Fournier Beaudry and Nikolaj Sorensen, who were exploring the swimming pool yesterday and guess what, some fan brought a little fish today, how fitting and thoughtful!
Thoughtful, is also their program, as it reflects on the life of Édith Piaf, a lady who explored the darkness and light before being overwhelmed by the nightmares that plagued her mind and yet, became a reason for her to develop so much creativity, which is a very common scenario. As worse your life is, as better your work as an artist will be.

Said artists from Denmark, faced a very big challenge, as the life of the Piaf, is overwhelming and complex, so that you need to reflect the drama and personality of a great lady and yet, show how she was torn between both worlds.

Beaudry and Sorensen, have a very unique and passionate way of skating and I think this is their best work so far. Both skaters, show the pain and strong connection, a connection that never left even after death and which was so important for Édith, who never had a real family or long term relationship, except with Marcel Cerdan.
She found someone, the "one" and when he left her after an accident, she just couldn´t take it anymore and that bound between two lovers, was greatly shown on ice and it was forever, as ups and downs will come and go, but true love lasts forever.

Laurence, has an incredible depth in her facial expression, she really felt what she was skating to and they used the musical phrasing very well to place the "pictures" of their program, as with the transition to their stationary lift, showing how she was caught and unable to escape and yet on top at times, - wonderful placement and execution of the lift, supported up by the uplifting vocals from Édith. Another of those pictures is her look at him in between the combination spin and rotational lift, when Piaf sings "Mon amour", a theme that is later brought up again, when she is in his arms, it´s so spot on and it´s those details, that I so like about their program and how they manage to really show that story in all it´s extremes.

Their dance is a constant ride though the mind of a "genius" and in my opinion, they have the quality that´s required to really show the differences and how in the end, she was just always caught in the memories that later killed her, but re-united her with those that she had lost.

One of my absolute favorite programs this season, two wonderful skaters, with great personality and depth – I love it!

Last but not least, I want to speak about the Canadians, Kaitlyn Weaver and Andrew Poje, who in my opinion had a fantastic SD to MJ, a program that progressed amazingly well. Their FD to guitar sounds by Joaquin Rodrigo, had a very different approach but reflected what I mentioned in the short, an easy and flawless skating except for the twizzles, which really need some more work, as I find them the weakest part in their arsenal, they just don´t look as confident and stable, as for instance with the Russians Ekaterina and Dmitri, who just nail those with confidence.

As for our Canadians, I really like her position during the lifts, especially at the end with the Straight Line, greatly placed on the hook-line but I would like it a tad later, - the moment when she stretches in the air to be precise, as I felt it would look much more impressive if sound and picture align at this point, as right now she already was in said position for a second and then the hookline kicked in. Kaity in general, always has that glamour about her if you ask me, she is so high up in the air it just looks so beautiful! Something else that I noticed is the start of their program, you really believe that these two just woke up in the sunlight of south Madrid, where this concert originates from.
Overall, it was a very elegant and graceful skate and I felt much more fluent and effortless, than in the last season, where I sometimes noticed a bit of force in some elements.
I am sure, over the next months, that FD will be more polished and the coaching change seems to have worked and it will be quite a battle at Canada, where I honestly still see Piper and Paul as the most advanced right now, Tessa and Scott have a strong SD, but I felt the SD by Kaity and Andrew was better overall and I also think that the FD progressed better than of Virtue and Moir.

At the end, of course a few more words, but I analyzed their programs already, so you can just read up on that at if you like.

Madi & Evan, had a performance that was unusual, as there was a mistake, something that is so rare with these two, that I can not remember when it last happened. Sure, sometimes a level here and there, but to really stumble at the Twizzle which lead to the abortion on his side at the first sequence, was so unlike Evan, as he is so confident and secure each time on ice. Anyways, these things just happen and better now than at Worlds or even the Olympics, right? Heads up man!

Ekaterina and Dmitri, skated exceptionally well, what they pull off on ice, just amazes me. At no time in their programs, you think they have to use force for their elements, as seen with the straight line, where she exits so gracefully, easy touch down with her right blade and I so love how they reflect what happened last season in their starting sequence, where she closes eyes and falls backwards and he catches her, which symbolized the trust both have in each other.
Great use of the strings for the twizzles, but also the keystroke when they cover their eyes, calm and always acting, super aligned and confident!
Skating close in hold, great outfits that are not over the top, they just have it all and are so far ahead of other Russian teams right now and they had such a difficult time after Sochi, I am so happy to see that all their hard work, finally pays off as judges now see how great they are and each single 9+ was so well deserved!
Ekaterina, is so flexible in her lower back, it just looks so amazing what she does there and I like the speed that they achieve at the four seasons part, it´s a very big program, with great difficulties and energy, but also grace and elegance at the start.

We also need to give credit to Yurii, who skated with Victoria, you know the beautiful lady with the great outfits. He is so much taller, but manages to pull something off like the curve lift, where he is so close to the surface, or the dance spin, which is incredible hard for tall man, we just tend to bend over too much and fall off, as we go down, at least I always had that issue and as I said yesterday, they bring a lot of new stuff and it´s a real joy to see their programs, that of course have a different speed and all, but they present their elements and are very proud skaters and they deserve applause, again lovely music in my opinion, but I would like her to have a different color for her skating boots, minor critique.

Tiffany and Jonathan, have a great starting position, almost as if a flower unfolded, really great, lovely entry into the straight line, not easy to do, as the force must be stopped, else she would just jump over him and yes, she indeed has red hair and I like how it was presented in her dress, nice detail and risky transition into the spin, not fully working yet, but great idea and that´s the topic with these two.
They have amazing idea´s, as also present with the entry to the curve lift, where she has her left leg around his neck and then pulls herself up, what a power this lady has, great timing with the drums in the background and maybe you will remember being in school having to perform similar things in sport and now let´s be honest, how many were able to get up again, when you were hanging down, it´s so tough work for your abs!

Sofia and Egor, had a little issue on one of their lifts and I liked how she just told him, it´s ok and I enjoyed the "scale" lift, which is not as easy as it may seem, something you can try at home at the local playgrounds with a friend, balance is key there and she had a great dress, so funky, nice use of music for the twizzles too.

Elliana and Alex, again, that confidence and those extensions, I so love that and it´s not easy for him, as she has such long legs and you need to control those, else you end up with a broken nose and again, a great balance on their curve lift, nice entry and exit at the straight line, always performing, staying in character! Twizzle difficult as well, the first sequence with the free leg, close to each other, a very skilled pair these two and so present, she is sucking the points out of the judges – something I like about skaters from the United States – they just give you no other option, than giving them the points.

Last but not least, Alisa and Alper. I really like choreographies by Pasquale, they have such a nice touch and these two are very graceful and elegant, great curve lift nice position of her, but also the tiny " choreographed sequence" at the start, looks great when she is laying on his left leg, very original!
In general, these two who represented Turkey at Sochi, have a style that many fans love, they skate with heart and yes, she is of course a darling, but he manages to skate alongside her, he is present and look at his eyes, it´s all you need to know, so much joy, great use of the phrase for their twizzle sequence, very strong combination of straight line and curve lift, something we don´t see much anymore, as most couples just go for the "short" lift these days.

Overall,

a very enjoyable competition and once again, great music choices, costumes and skaters with their stories, who are lifting Ice Dance to another level and I stick to my word, Ice Dance has never been better than now, it´s progressing and we finally get rid of the 20th century stuff and move forwards to a higher quality, that is just new and refreshing, which at least, I, really like about this discipline.

Sorry that I got carried away a bit, but I just wanted to share my thoughts.

 

[Blades of Passion]

The trend of Chock/Bates finishing 2nd everywhere they go is actually kind of funny, no? If they are 2nd at the GPF it will be both impressive and hilarious at the same time.

But they have better material than the Shibutanis, so I really hope they clean up the details (stop being so frantic in the LP, make Evan get more edge in the SP, plus no repeat of the twizzle mistake of course) and win Nationals this year. They might even be my personal pick to win Worlds this year if they can get themselves together. Not sure that Virtue/Moir will put as much work in and the French team's programs are boring me this season, from what I saw so far.

 

[MidnightSkater]

Forgive me, the original post this discussion sparked sounded like you were passing off opinion as fact. That may not have been your intent- text is a notoriously tricky medium when it comes to tone- but I can see how rosy came to that conclusion.

That's okay. Things can get tense on here at times !.

 

[rollerblade]

Sometimes, contemporary programs like this FD can be either blatant or just nuanced. Madi's hand gestures/movements are very suggestive of tension, pressures or emotions depicting the issues conveyed in this music. Evan's expressions of anxiety/angst imploding are very expressive of what they intend to show. But I have to admit that because of the singular theme of the music, the program would seem one-dimensional and this is restrictive, expression-wise. The lyrics while helping convey the theme can also be restrictive. The challenge of performing it just right can be an issue - if they understate it, it would look boring and unsubstantive, if they overdo it - they'll come across as superficial and melodramatic.

If you mute their music, and then either play the "right" music in your head to their choreography, or load an mp3 (or youtube) of certain tracks of whatever you feel fits.... that FD will come across a lot better. Soooo much better.

I'm still not a fan of music with lyrics. It's like, the lyrics already told us "spread your wings and prepare to fly".... we get it. There's literally no need to flap your arms in a tacky lift position.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

What were people's favourite lifts? I really liked Weaver and Poje's first rotational lift. Very lovely.

For those of you more tech proficient, who do you think had the more difficult lifts and why?

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Madi & Evan, had a performance that was unusual, as there was a mistake, something that is so rare with these two, that I can not remember when it last happened. Sure, sometimes a level here and there, but to really stumble at the Twizzle which lead to the abortion on his side at the first sequence, was so unlike Evan, as he is so confident and secure each time on ice. Anyways, these things just happen and better now than at Worlds or even the Olympics, right? Heads up man!

A poster on another forum pointed out that C/B actually are pretty prone to making errors similar to the one we saw at Rostelecom Cup. Before they were still able to win or medal over other teams who did not have those sorts of stumbles, but now more teams are catching up and those errors are more costly.

These are the competitions that were pointed out by the poster where C/B made errors:

Chock & Bates make errors on the twizzles quite often though.
2014 Worlds FD
2015 4CCs FD
2015 COC SD
2016 GPF (I can't remember if it was the SD or FD)
2016 Worlds SD
2016 Nepela
2016 Rostelecom

They also had a major fall (I think they both fell) at the 2014-2015 GPF in the SD but still placed second above the Shibutanis and Papadakis/Cizeron.

 

[Skater Boy]

Thank you for sharing. It seems in dance of all the skating events really require more story telling skills. Right now none of the teams are doing it maybe but for the French. Virtue and Moir are great and ironically Weapo to BUT I think they need real vehciles that have a real story. I know it is hard year after year coming up with something fresh,innovative. That's why the French right now are doing so well. V and M and WeaPo are just really good skaters skating to decent music but they both need something that shows their fire. Especially next year. but if no one challenges the French they will be unbeatable with their reputation and all. Look what happened we all sort of knew in Sochi that D and W were going to win They established themselves and while I could see a good argument for V and M to beat them; with the reputation being build D and W were no. 1 they needed some shock factor not just great dancing. The team that has it now imho is ironically not Chock and Bates or the Shibs or Weapo or V and M but Gilles and Porier - a bit morepolish and some fair judging...Great work from Chock and Bates and they could pass the Shibs. Nats will be interesting.

 

[mylifeback]

Yes, C/B errors always seem to be on their twizzles, and started popping up at Worlds 2015. I was happy to hear Evan say at the FD news conference they are going home and focusing on this element (I hope they have done this before but now it is really getting critical). Twizzles have cost them gold a few times over the last two seasons. They need to go back to basics & train them hard. If they get this sorted, they will be very strong this season based on early scores and their FD which is different from what any of the other top teams are showing.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I see people are writing off the Shibs already. It happened after Worlds too with people thinking the judges wouldn't score them well this season as "Fix You" was a one-off good program for them. That's the story of their life. I hope they keep proving people wrong and continue their ascent to being even better ice dancers than what people think they are capable of.

 

[Mrs. P]

They are winning in the "your favorite GP host nation" skater poll though! :thumbsup:

But yeah, remember the days people though they would be passed by a number of rising US junior teams? Oh wait it wasn't that long ago.. Like last season.

 

[Astrid56]

Yes, C/B errors always seem to be on their twizzles, and started popping up at Worlds 2015. I was happy to hear Evan say at the FD news conference they are going home and focusing on this element (I hope they have done this before but now it is really getting critical). Twizzles have cost them gold a few times over the last two seasons. They need to go back to basics & train them hard. If they get this sorted, they will be very strong this season based on early scores and their FD which is different from what any of the other top teams are showing.

I believe it is a 'concentration issue' ... Evan, for some reason gets absurdly distracted and then the slip happens. Either overthinking it or nerves getting the better of him. He has got to learn to contain this tendency. He and Poje have similar problem. At first, it was Madi doing it and now she seems to manage it better.

 

[Astrid56]

Competitions that C/B had mistakes:

2014 GPF SD - a fall hence -1.0 deduction. Ice-slip by Madi causing Evan to also fall.
2014 Rostelecom SD - minor bobble by Madi while executing a step-sequence
2015 COC SD - Evan
2016 GPF - minor Twizzle bobble by Madi
2016 Worlds SD - Evan
2016 Nepela - Evan
2016 Rostelecom - Evan

It seems that Evan has major nerve/concentration issue. I think the problem stems from being just a 5 year old team_ started in 2011, first competed in National in 2012 but looked where they are now? ISU ranked them # 1 this year - quite a feat. They're still having 'growing pains', so to speak. Hopefully, they'll get over this soon - their last year issues with their FD and SD were very good for them - they got to know each other better and, I think, learned from it. This year, Evan's experiencing major 'overthinking/jitters-nerves' issue _ there was his Nepela's twizzle bobble, and now, his Rostelecom's. Well, they have a month to sort this out before the GPF ... I hope they can address this problem psychologically as this problem relates to his 'competition' mindset....

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I think the twizzle error at Rostelecom is actually a blessing for Chock/Bates. If one were one of the more cynical ice dance fans, they would argue that some in this panel would have put a clean C/B below Bob/Sol's performance in order to make sure B/S got the GPF slot after their third place finish at Skate America. Psychologically speaking, it helps a competitor prepare for the next competition if they can focus on one or more tangible thing(s) that they can fix for next time. A reachable goal that they can control. The twizzle error allows C/B to attribute their loss to that one twizzle mistake and make them feel that victory is totally in their hands. Had a very clean performance by C/B still resulted in a loss, then I think it may have messed them psychologically for the next competition, as it would most people.

 

[Astrid56]

USA-SA giving them back to back competition (as in Nepela-Nebelhorn and Skate Canada-Rostelecom) is doing this team a great disservice. It's hard to psychologically regroup when you also have to deal with (travel) jet lag and time-difference.

 

[Mattieu]

Sorry that I got carried away a bit, but I just wanted to share my thoughts.

No that was great! So nice to hear someone speaking positively about all the skaters, as they work so hard and overcome so much to be there!
You are pointing out that they all have good things about them, which we tend to forget in dismissing skaters just because they are not No. 1
Well done for writing in such a skater friendly way.

 

[Astrid56]

I think the twizzle error at Rostelecom is actually a blessing for Chock/Bates. If one were one of the more cynical ice dance fans, they would argue that some in this panel would have put a clean C/B below Bob/Sol's performance in order to make sure B/S got the GPF slot after their third place finish at Skate America. Psychologically speaking, it helps a competitor prepare for the next competition if they can focus on one or more tangible thing(s) that they can fix for next time. A reachable goal that they can control. The twizzle error allows C/B to attribute their loss to that one twizzle mistake and make them feel that victory is totally in their hands. Had a very clean performance by C/B still resulted in a loss, then I think it may have messed them psychologically for the next competition, as it would most people.

If you put it that way but I think this allows them to just put on blinders, disallowing a more objective assessment of what really is the issue _ home advantage or simply judge-bias or something else. If they had skated cleanly and still not won due to a slight point disadvantage (as in Skate Canada) then they'll be able to see where a correction is needed.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

If you put it that way but I think this allows them to just put on blinders, disallowing a more objective assessment of what really is the issue _ home advantage or simply judge-bias or something else. If they had skated cleanly and still not won due to a slight point disadvantage (as in Skate Canada) then they'll be able to see where a correction is needed.

At the same time, I think it allows them to ignore conspiracy theories and noise and just focus on the skating. Skating well is the best thing they can do to jockey for position here.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think USFS has anything to do with how C/B got back-to-back assignments other than not choosing them for SA, which possibly affected the other host countries making their decisions. It was smart for the USFS to not put both C/B and the Shibs in the same GP competition.

 

[Astrid56]

I see people are writing off the Shibs already. It happened after Worlds too with people thinking the judges wouldn't score them well this season as "Fix You" was a one-off good program for them. That's the story of their life. I hope they keep proving people wrong and continue their ascent to being even better ice dancers than what people think they are capable of.

I don't think people are already writing off the Shibs. They're not in any competition at the moment but soon they will _ Cup of China. They'll be facing W/P who has a terrific and promising FD, it will be an interesting face-off. The Shibs' FD is similar in style/approach to the World Champions' 2016 FD _ somewhat free wheeling, a series of beautiful movements and lifts but no defining theme. Will this style work again, remains to be seen (it worked in Skate America). They'll surely get high TECH and PCS points but will the points be enough to derail a competing team's pursuit for gold. W/P has to do well in here to make it to GPF or maybe Canada will have 3 teams competing in Grand Prix (I see G/P winning silver in Trophee de France - 2 silvers will be enough to take them to GPF). If H/D nabs a bronze in Trophee de France (I see P/C 1st, G/P 2nd and H/D 3rd) they'll make it too to the Grand Prix - so that will be 3 also for USA.

 

[ice coverage]

USA-SA giving them back to back competition (as in Nepela-Nebelhorn and Skate Canada-Rostelecom) is doing this team a great disservice. It's hard to psychologically regroup when you also have to deal with (travel) jet lag and time-difference.

... Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think USFS has anything to do with how C/B got back-to-back assignments other than not choosing them for SA, which possibly affected the other host countries making their decisions. It was smart for the USFS to not put both C/B and the Shibs in the same GP competition.

VIETgrl, you are correct about the GPs. :agree:
USFS had no control over C/B's assignments to Skate Canada and Russia.

And I highly doubt that USFS forced C/B to compete at both Nebelhorn and Nepela.
I think it is far more likely that C/B themselves wanted the extra competition experience of a two-fer -- knowing that getting from Oberstdorf to Bratislava would be relatively painless. (IIRC, they traveled by car??) And knowing that the two comps are in the same time zone (AFAIK).

---

What were people's favourite lifts? I really liked Weaver and Poje's first rotational lift. Very lovely. ...

:agree: Agree re W/P's first lift. Lovely and original.