2016-17 GPF Ladies SP

[Crossover]

I don't recall any outrage when Tatsuki Machida stood still for the first 20 seconds of his program a few years ago.

The comparison is wrong. The opening of Machida is like Hanyu's standing still for the first 20 seconds of his Chopin program while the people talking about standing still seem to point out skaters taking a long pause in the middle of the program. Once Machida and Hanyu respectively started moving in their program, their allowed time for competition started being counted.

 

[4everchan]

lol.. you know there's been a long time standing still if the TES box shows up before you've made any move

No outrage, but he did have a lot of critics. Machida was a total Drama Llama and some just don't like the style.
If he'd broken a world record with his program then the knives would be out.

 

[begin]

Spins were always there for Kaetlyn, with level 4's since 2012-13 season. I think some are just now realizing how good she is...SURPRISE!

:thumbsup:

I thought you were indecent, rude rednecks for attacking a sweet innocent Russian teenager by using that horrible 'gaping mouth' epithet? My reading comprehension seems to have slipped a bit since I took the SATs about 55 years ago.

Nah, read what the post was in response to. Someone was only trying to explain what Gaping Mouth OP meant before being pegged a Deplorable.

 

[sabinfire]

The comparison is wrong. The opening of Machida is like Hanyu's standing still for the first 20 seconds of his Chopin program while the people talking about standing still seem to point out skaters taking a long pause in the middle of the program. Once Machida and Hanyu respectively started moving in their program, their allowed time for competition started being counted.

I'm pretty sure Evgenia could skate around while answering a fake telephone. Might look funny, but it'd be a breeze, like everything else is for her.

 

[shyne]

I don't recall any outrage when Tatsuki Machida stood still for the first 20 seconds of his program a few years ago.

The program doesn‘t "start" until the skater's first movement.

 

[sabinfire]

The program doesn‘t "start" until the skater's first movement.

Okay. How about if Evgenia takes the telephone call with a hands-free bluetooth headset?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Zhenia's lowest GOE mark was a +2

 

[Lipea]

I am late to the party. Someone must have pointed out that Satoko's 3toe is under rotated, and it does not even need slow motion to notice. And that was not called???

While Maria's flip was perfectly clean but got URL.

 

[andromache]

The fact that people here would rather bash Evgenia or pretend she's the most flawless skater ever INSTEAD of discussing the extremely problematic scoring system (of PCS, not TES) that has brought us to this point kind of shows me that the vast majority of people here care about their faves instead of the sport.

Quantifying PCS just doesn't work, especially when it comes to comparing competitions like IJS does with its use of the WR. A WR in TES can actually be meaningful; a WR caused in part by PCS is impossible to actually discuss/dissect because PCS can't be objectively quantified. But people here would rather discuss their faves.

 

[Moment]

Regarding Maria's flip, it seems that she did a slight turn on the landing, hence the call. It was a really tough one, though.

 

[thoakun]

A BEsp commentator said in Satoko 's video that the Japanese don't do plyometrics to help with jump elevation. Any thoughts?

 

[ancientpeas]

Okay. How about if Evgenia takes the telephone call with a hands-free bluetooth headset?

This made me laugh.

 

[ancientpeas]

The fact that people here would rather bash Evgenia or pretend she's the most flawless skater ever INSTEAD of discussing the extremely problematic scoring system (of PCS, not TES) that has brought us to this point kind of shows me that the vast majority of people here care about their faves instead of the sport.

Quantifying PCS just doesn't work, especially when it comes to comparing competitions like IJS does with its use of the WR. A WR in TES can actually be meaningful; a WR caused in part by PCS is impossible to actually discuss/dissect because PCS can't be objectively quantified. But people here would rather discuss their faves.

I will openly say that I do not always get the PCS marks. Or the GOE marks. I know what I like and what I think looks good but that does not mean it is good skating. I think the PCS mark is becoming like the old Artistic Impression of the 6.0. In other words a way of holding up favourites and keeping down others.

 

[gravy]

The fact that people here would rather bash Evgenia or pretend she's the most flawless skater ever INSTEAD of discussing the extremely problematic scoring system (of PCS, not TES) that has brought us to this point kind of shows me that the vast majority of people here care about their faves instead of the sport.

Quantifying PCS just doesn't work, especially when it comes to comparing competitions like IJS does with its use of the WR. A WR in TES can actually be meaningful; a WR caused in part by PCS is impossible to actually discuss/dissect because PCS can't be objectively quantified. But people here would rather discuss their faves.

I think a WR in TES is also problematic because the GOEs are just as subjective. There are bullets that must be accounted for, but they're almost never applied correctly. The system isn't broken, it's the judges.

I think it's also important to note that world records in figure skating aren't actually acknowledged under the ISU: they're called season's best and they don't carry over after the season ends. This list is used to give skaters their Grand Prix assignments and were previously used to determine start order at competitions. Worlds records are just something that the fans have come up with.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Okay. How about if Evgenia takes the telephone call with a hands-free bluetooth headset?

Aren't you afraid that some people might suggest that it's Ilya phoning in the choreography :ddevil:

 

[ancientpeas]

I think a WR in TES is also problematic because the GOEs are just as subjective. There are bullets that must be accounted for, but they're almost never applied correctly. The system isn't broken, it's the judges.

I think it's also important to note that world records in figure skating aren't actually acknowledged under the ISU: they're called season's best and they don't carry over after the season ends. This list is used to give skaters their Grand Prix assignments and were previously used to determine start order at competitions. Worlds records are just something that the fans have come up with.

I am not even sure that I get the whole bullet system.

I do know that I think they throw the GOE marks around like candy. I would rather they only give the plus threes to exceptional elements. If zero is the base then, in fact, should not most elements get a zero.

 

[rain]

I am not even sure that I get the whole bullet system.

I do know that I think they throw the GOE marks around like candy. I would rather they only give the plus threes to exceptional elements. If zero is the base then, in fact, should not most elements get a zero.

This is indeed how it is supposed to work. A sufficiently well-done jump with no obvious flaws should get a zero. This does not mean there was anything wrong with the element, just the opposite, in fact. Plus three is supposed to be reserved for the exceptional.

The bullet points system throws a bit of a wrench into the works, as there are specific entry/exit things that skaters can do that are, narrowly, outside of the actual jump that will give them extra GOE points. But my understanding is that these are still required to be in addition to a jump that is well done in the first place, as at least a fair number of the bullets are about height/distance/air position. In practice, the bullets seem to have allowed skaters with average elements to score very high GOEs — sometimes, at least.

Which is why I don't think that increasing the GOE scoring range by another two points is going to get us anywhere but right where we are now. In no time we're just going to have a bunch of skaters scoring +5 instead of +3. A range of 7 different possible grades (-3 to +3) on any one element is absolutely more than sufficient if applied correctly. Honestly, does anyone expect the judges to be able to, in the moment, properly differentiate between a +2 and a +3 and a +4? Nonsense.

 

[Leonardo]

No she isn't. Osmond deserved to beat her. Better choreography and interpretation, deeper edges, more powerful jumps.

These scores are outrageous. Evgenia didn't get less than a +2 GOE from any judge on any element, and +3's all over the place. This is so wrong. There is better footwork, better double axels, better spins out there. Calling these +3 worthy makes the scoring pointless. Not to mention those PCS.

The flaws are blatantly obvious too. She traveled on her camel spin. How do you give that +3?? It's all a sham. She's simply the chosen one and gets held up.

Thank you. Osmond is not my favorite, but she was clearly the best tonight. She skated bigger, faster, stronger and was the best overall. Her BV was only 0.5 lower than zhenya's, but she ended up with 75.5 compared to Evgenia's 79. That's the problem with overscoring. Sometimes the best skater doesn't win because another one was chosen beforehand and gets held up.

 

[Kirei]

I personally prefer a strict technical panel but I would settle for a consistent one. Satoko's 3T not getting a <, Kaetlyn's 3Lz not getting a !, but Sotskova getting a 3F<.

I hope the Free would be different, but it's the same panel..

 

[ancientpeas]

This is indeed how it is supposed to work. A sufficiently well-done jump with no obvious flaws should get a zero. This does not mean there was anything wrong with the element, just the opposite, in fact. Plus three is supposed to be reserved for the exceptional.

The bullet points system throws a bit of a wrench into the works, as there are specific entry/exit things that skaters can do that are, narrowly, outside of the actual jump that will give them extra GOE points. But my understanding is that these are still required to be in addition to a jump that is well done in the first place, as at least a fair number of the bullets are about height/distance/air position. In practice, the bullets seem to have allowed skaters with average elements to score very high GOEs — sometimes, at least.

Which is why I don't think that increasing the GOE scoring range by another two points is going to get us anywhere but right where we are now. In no time we're just going to have a bunch of skaters scoring +5 instead of +3. A range of 7 different possible grades (-3 to +3) on any one element is absolutely more than sufficient if applied correctly. Honestly, does anyone expect the judges to be able to, in the moment, properly differentiate between a +2 and a +3 and a +4? Nonsense.

yes. This is what I see. People freak out about a jump or spin getting a zero like something has to be wrong with it to get a zero but in fact that is the base mark and should indicate it is passable but not special. I think a plus 3 should be for things really stand out as special. When people get all worked up about normal jumps not getting a plus three I get kind of confused about how the judges can ever make everyone happy. If you get two or three elements in your program with a GOE of plus 1 and above it would seem to me that you have skated very well indeed. But when every element is a plus 1 or above it makes it less valuable.