2017 GP Rostelecom Cup Mens FS

[Interspectator]

That's a completely fair perspective. I just think fandom is less divisive and more engaging when great skating is appreciated no matter who it comes from, as well as genuinely not understanding how someone can appreciate the great skating of one or two skaters and be completely uninterested in the skating of anyone else, or anyone else not from their country. You're missing out on so much good stuff!!!

I think it's a little different in sports where one athlete or team is DIRECTLY against another, in that one athlete/team has direct impact on the performance of another - like in most team sports, or tennis, for example. It's deliberate conflict meant to excite or enrage or upset fans. Skating and gymnastics and track/field sports are different - excellence or failure stand on their own.

Yes, there will always be differences in opinion on all these things. I have a good laugh my self sometimes at my level of fan-girling, and am puzzled when I don't like a skater who obviously is talented and brilliant. Such things are not logical, but just are.

But to get back on topic.
The varying strategies of the top 4 guys is interesting and I think is more worthy of discussion than us fans watching! All legitimate strategies yet some are more favorably looked on than others.
For example, Yuzu gets criticism for repeating programs, and when not clean, some feel it's 'old hat' 'not exciting'...but I think that this is something he has taken into account but is willing to bear the brunt of for the early season so that he can get the very difficult and new technical elements under his belt. -Which he is starting to do. It's still not pristine, but it can get there if he can stay healthy. I feel often that the 4lz is too risky to try in the Olympic season, but Yuzu truly performs best when he feels that he's pushing the limits of what he can do. When he steps back, he can lose concentration and things fall apart (this is from what we've heard from his interview)

Nathan's strategy is to go all-out with new programs and as difficult a content as he can manage at the time. It is a great strength to have good competitive nerves and the ability to change a layout at a moments notice. He's still finding the perfect layout, and his zayaking may cost him at some point in the future, but this is the right path for him, I believe.

Mikhail's 3rd place here was very unpopular, because of his 3 falls, but he has calculated well, that as long as he gets his combos, his levels and does not UR, he can score high, though I have some issues with the judging and perhaps other judges will be harsher if he does this again elsewhere. The truth is, his basic skills are very good, and his jumps, when landed are beautiful. This may be a valley he is willing to go down so that he can get his jumps stabilized. -How will you learn, if you do not try, and fail a few times?

Misha, I can't say enough, how much his skating moves me. I think the judges were too conservative with his PCS...considering what they gave others. His strategy is what is best for him. To do 2 clean programs every time. He's getting personal bests this year and performances that we won't forget any time soon. Given his age and injuries, trying out quads could end his career for good...I wish Denis Ten might consider this.

What do others think about the strategies and strengths of the skaters here? And those not on the podium? How about Deniss? Is he going in the right Direction? And Denis Ten? Should he take a break or take out the quad attempts? Let's talk about the skaters!

 

[andromache]

I accept falls and pops are part of the sport, but it leaves a terrible taste in the mouth to see someone getting showered with points when they have multiple falls in a program. I think of poor Misha Ge who nearly always skates clean, with two beautiful and mesmerizing performances...and how he couldn't even get close to the podium. Meanwhile Carolina somehow gets a silver in ladies with lower tech content. I don't like that much either but I'm not sure what the answer is. Something has to change, the system is just so grossly unfair that it really sucks all the fun out of watching. I like seeing quads, but I definitely think falls should be punished much more severely. In the presser, Mikhail apparently said he was satisfied with his skating in the FS. Seriously??? Well, why not, when he can screw up multiple times and still get a PB score!

This is why I like watching juniors more these days.

FWIW, Carolina had the third-highest TES in the LP (don't know offhand for the SP, but I think she had the third or second-highest TES in the SP?). "Tech content" is more than the jumps or a 3-3. The points add up how they add up. No 3-3, but also no UR'd jumps, edge calls, or step-outs or other jump mistakes, plus level 4 everything - that is quality tech content.

Didn't know he said he was satisfied with his performance during a press conference. Yikes....that's not a good look.

The 4Lz is a thing of beauty when landed. Love the height on it. I'm just glad the placements wound up correctly, really. I expect we'll see lots of PCS to get mad about for skaters on home ice. I do feel sorry for Misha though, too. He hasn't been able to break the Jason Brown ceiling of being able to get top-tier PCS without top-tier technical difficulty (probably because he's a small fed skater).

 

[Sweet Dream]

I think very few people can truly understand those crazy fans' emotions. Just look at the audience attending the football matches, and their overpowering love for this sport is really indescribable. It is totally wrong to judge a fan by your own reason. Passionate fans are needed for any sport anywhere at any time. Still, seeing this girl crying so bitterly after the FS is a little surprising to me.

 

[Ylyzybyth]

There has been a general curtain of gloom and doom about people because a certain quarterback broke his collar bone. People are like, practically lining up to donate their collar bones and writing football season off as over already. I don't see why a crying fan is a big deal. LOL. Anyways, really enjoyed watching the new or re-vamped programs from the men! Love Yuzuru as always, also really liked Nathan's program as it was quite exciting. First time in a lonnng time watching something live, I can't believe how fast it went by.

 

[Lindacrow]

I think very few people can truly understand those crazy fans' emotions. Just look at the audience attending the football matches, and their overpowering love for this sport is really indescribable. It is totally wrong to judge a fan by your own reason. Passionate fans are needed for any sport anywhere at any time. Still, seeing this girl crying so bitterly after the FS is a little surprising to me.

Not sure if this has been posted...

from yt_figureskate twitter:

"A rough translation about of the girl's post on weibo who cried in SEIMEI costume. The first sight she saw Yuzu out in SEIMEI, she cried. She's been thinking of SEIMEI for A year and she just saw it, dazzling, right in front of her. Then she burst into tears. Seeing Yuzu managed to complete the 4Ltz, she cried again. Thinking of how many hard work he's done and she just WITNESS how those efforts paid off. She couldn't help herself. She didn't cry for yuzu's lost but for being worried about that he would push himself too much. If so, that would break her heart. That's it. Thanks for all of your concern and tolerating my crying face."

It wasn't bitter tears, but happy one?

 

[kevinVchicago]

Let them cry! Let them feel their sad feelings and be sensitive! Not hurting anybody.

 

[bixby]

Well, what an amazing competition this has been. What a way to open the grand prix and Olympic season. EXCITING... it was not a "snoozefest" but lots to enjoy.

Yuzu has now 4 different kind of quads to his arsenal.

Nathan finally WON his first grand prix GOLD medal.

 

[shine]

Not sure if this has been posted...

from yt_figureskate twitter:

"A rough translation about of the girl's post on weibo who cried in SEIMEI costume. The first sight she saw Yuzu out in SEIMEI, she cried. She's been thinking of SEIMEI for A year and she just saw it, dazzling, right in front of her. Then she burst into tears. Seeing Yuzu managed to complete the 4Ltz, she cried again. Thinking of how many hard work he's done and she just WITNESS how those efforts paid off. She couldn't help herself. She didn't cry for yuzu's lost but for being worried about that he would push himself too much. If so, that would break her heart. That's it. Thanks for all of your concern and tolerating my crying face."

It wasn't bitter tears, but happy one?

So the happiness induced her to cry through Yuzuru's entire skate and Nathan's as well?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Excuse me, I'll simply refuse to engage in the childish bickering over falls and PCS due to personal biases.

Patrick Chan fell several times too in some of his best performances, but his PCS remained high and close to his rivals who didn't fall. I didn't argue that Chan didn't deserve his PCS, it's because of the SAME reasons - the quality of Chan's other PCS elements.

At least I am CONSISTENT. I don't see all the picthforks over Chan from you. :sarcasm:

Like I said, I refuse to engage in any more of this bickering.

We agree to disagree, and let's stop boring everyone.

This is my final post on the matter. Post all you want but I won't be answering yours or anyone else's posts because I've stated my views and supporting logic.

END. Thank you.

I'm not bickering. I'm pointing out that falls adversely affect performances and should be penalized accordingly on components as well. I've also explained why I think falls adversely affect component scores.

If you think a skater falling 3 times and a step out as well deserves 9.25 for Performance (and up to 9.50 on other components), that's on you, and you're entitled to think so. Someone's fave skater (or one of their faves) could fall 20 times and they could say each one isn't disruptive since he got up, and so 9.75 is totally fine for Performance. That's an opinion (while not the most agreeable one) that they are entitled to.

And I don't think Chan (who is a way better skater overall than Kolyada, and deserves higher PCS by comparison, mind you) has ever had a performance where he's fallen 3 times and gotten as generous scores as Kolyada got here.

 

[Ares]

I think a very big difference is that these men don't "plan" to fall.

They've landed the jumps. Their plan is to land them every time.

Yet we have people claiming here that Kolyada has his falls ''planned'' in his program

 

[Ares]

Does anyone have any idea when Misha decided to not retire? Last I know he was going to, but now he's still skating. No complaints, but has he said anything on the matter?

I think he was in two minds about it and that was also the impression that I got from his interviews / statements. I felt that he will continue.

 

[xeyra]

Yet we have people claiming here that Kolyada has his falls ''planned'' in his program

I think in Mikhail's case right now, due to the multiple failures to land the 4Lz since last season, he may just have somehow become mentally prepared for a fall. The pattern that this has created might make him unintentionally brace for a fall and lose his concentration on landing or takeoff (hence the wild axis of this more recent attempt). It's not planning to fall strategically, one always wants to land the jumps, but once a pattern forms it's hard to get out of it. He managed at Nepela, though, so let's see how the rest of the season goes.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I'm adding Nathan to the gofundme costumes list. Or is he pulling a Patrick "Costume? I don't need no stinkin' costume" Chan?

I actually like the fact that he didn't push the Orientalism of the program in our faces with some OTT costume.

Then again I'm a big fan of Shaker furniture. Simplicity can be so elegant.

 

[WeakAnkles]

So.. I have a Davis and White problem with Nathan Chen. I can admire the skating, admire the power, the speed, the hard work..and be totally unmoved by it. I think I'll always be more of a Shoma girl.

But well done.

De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum.

But I think that's such a wonderful attitude to have when you find someone not to your taste. Credit where credit is due and all that.

 

[Jaana]

I think Chen was the rightful winner in this competition, congratulations. Have to admit though that I love Hanyu´s program, the way he interprets it plus the choreography is awesome!

Was this the first time ever that Aliev skated through his freeskate program??? Never heard of full run-throughs? It was painful to watch after about two minutes...

Kolyada was overscored, but this is Russia, LOL. Unfortunately the same will happen in other GP´s where their own skaters are hoped to place high. Maybe not so much in NHK as they have such strong skater like Hanyu this year.

 

[WeakAnkles]

even such a dull and boring skater as chen, will be praised in north america as an artistic GOD. as long, as he can jump and win
it's only medvedeva, who lacks artistry

So how do those extremely sour grapes taste?

 

[Ares]

I think in Mikhail's case right now, due to the multiple failures to land the 4Lz since last season, he may just have somehow become mentally prepared for a fall. The pattern that this has created might make him unintentionally brace for a fall and lose his concentration on landing or takeoff (hence the wild axis of this more recent attempt). It's not planning to fall strategically, one always wants to land the jumps, but once a pattern forms it's hard to get out of it. He managed at Nepela, though, so let's see how the rest of the season goes.

I'd like him to do 2 4T in LP instead of that 4Lz ...

 

[treeloving]

Nathan skating right now is so similar to Yuzuru in 2013 -2014 (except Nathan has much better upper body movement). Anyway, both program are so pleasing to the eyes compare to the ladies'programs.

 

[Shayuki]

Depending on the way they'll change GOEs next season (to the -5 to +5 interval), a fall on a quad may be more costly than a good triple, actually. But it'll depend on what exactly the GOE factoring will be (the 10% of the BV for each GOE interval Hersh mentioned a while ago?)

Yeah, increasing the GOE range was one of the potential changes that would affect that. Reducing quad base value would as well, but that'd be a shame because clean quads are still beautiful.

Right now, a 3Lz is worth 6.00 points base and that might become like 7 points or slightly more when performed with good GOE. A planned fall on a quad lutz is still 8.60 points. That's... stupid, yeah.

 

[Shayuki]

It the GOE range was increased so that it was -6 points at max for instance(automatic with a fall), a planned fall on a quad lutz would only give 6.60 points which is less than a triple with positive GOE. So that might fix it already.