2017 GP Rostelecom Cup Mens FS

[kevinVchicago]

They cooked so much that the bouef bourguignon had turned black.

 

[kevinVchicago]

After a planet side excursion gone wrong

Nobody ever explained to me what Star Trek had to do with Moris' program!
I guess that it one of Mozart's 5 Secrets along with Tarasova's dress and Bobrova peek-a-boo.
:dance2:

 

[nimi]

Was this the first time ever that Aliev skated through his freeskate program??? Never heard of full run-throughs?

Apparently he was skating while still injured (ankle) & on anesthetic tablets. http://fsrussia.ru/news/3269-dmitrij-aliev-iz-za-travmy-ne-khvatilo-vremeni-chtoby-podgotovitsya-kak-nado.html

So yeah, personally I'd give him a benefit of a doubt instead of insinuating he's just lazy and doesn't want to practice his programs... But hey, that's just me.

 

[Jaana]

So yeah, personally I'd give him a benefit of a doubt instead of insinuating he's just lazy and doesn't want to practice his programs... But hey, that's just me.

I did not insinuate that he is lazy, LOL. It just has been so long the Russian system not to do full freeskate run-throughs, at least with some coaches, hence the lack of stamina in first competitions. That is something that has been commented on during years A LOT, in comparison with US skaters who train full freeskate run-throughs.

You have not noticed that some Russian male skaters tend to run out of steam long before the end of their freeskate programs, especially early in the season and sometimes even later?

 

[matcha]

I thought the crying girl was so sweet and endearing but that's just me. Bless her.

 

[MaiKatze]

I think he was in two minds about it and that was also the impression that I got from his interviews / statements. I felt that he will continue.

I assume he wants to go the Olympic Games one last time. It would be foolish to retire the year before. There were rumours about financial reasons for his retirement so maybe he's somehow got that sorted with Usbekistan. Still believe this is going to be the last season for him.

 

[nimi]

You have not noticed that some Russian male skaters tend to run out of steam long before the end of their freeskate programs, especially early in the season and sometimes even later?

Duh. I have also noticed that injuries are quite common in skating -- I'm sure you have noticed that, too -- and that Russians do get injured, too. We're talking about a skater doing his sr GP debut in front of a home crowd who surely wanted to give the best performance he could & who withdrew from an earlier int. comp (due to the same injury he was nursing here), so I don't see why "oh, those Russians, never doing full run-throughs this early!" would be the only logical/obvious explanation for him visibly struggling in the second half.

BTW, anybody here who has actual info about Rukavicin's training philosophy? He's not one of the most discussed Russian coaches around here and I don't remember reading any in-depth interviews with him.

 

[dearskate]

I agree with you all. I like Moris very much and I applaud innovative music choices

He has such a wonderful feeling for the music. That's why his programmes are so enjoyable no matter what he's skating to or wearing!

 

[Ares]

It the GOE range was increased so that it was -6 points at max for instance(automatic with a fall), a planned fall on a quad lutz would only give 6.60 points which is less than a triple with positive GOE. So that might fix it already.

That's the way to go I think We will see less quads but more often than now - the clean ones.

 

[viennaskater]

I for one am super happy Seimei is back. That music in itself is a masterpiece.

I don't get why Yuzu is using last season's LP. Why?? Would have been nice to see something new.

 

[Interspectator]

I don't get why Yuzu is using last season's LP. Why?? Would have been nice to see something new.

https://wherespacepooh.tumblr.com/post/164915059184/yuzuru-hanyu-interview-at-2017-18-media-day he's been interviewed a lot about it...because many folks thought the same, the link has an interview about why he chose to do this- there are a couple others too.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah, increasing the GOE range was one of the potential changes that would affect that. Reducing quad base value would as well, but that'd be a shame because clean quads are still beautiful.

Right now, a 3Lz is worth 6.00 points base and that might become like 7 points or slightly more when performed with good GOE. A planned fall on a quad lutz is still 8.60 points. That's... stupid, yeah.

I'm not a fan of GOE range being increased. As we've seen here, the top skaters are getting GOE favours regardless of the errors they make.

A second tier skater could land a clean jump and still be awarded 0 GOE whereas a top tier skater could have a turn out or two foot or step out or scratchy landing on the same jump and get awarded the same (or even +GOE), in spite of an error, just because of how prominent they are.

 

[ancientpeas]

I actually like the fact that he didn't push the Orientalism of the program in our faces with some OTT costume.

Then again I'm a big fan of Shaker furniture. Simplicity can be so elegant.

I too am a big fan of simplicity and I hate clutter in my living space but when it comes to my skating I prefer at least some costuming. It's just so dull.

 

[ancientpeas]

De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum.

But I think that's such a wonderful attitude to have when you find someone not to your taste. Credit where credit is due and all that.

Mornings are always better with a little latin in them.

Sometimes I admire the passion and intensity of some of the more definitive people. I can disagree about marks and such but for the most part I normally can find something to like about most skaters. I admire the hard work and the willingness to put yourself out there to be judged by millions if nothing else.

 

[ancientpeas]

I'm not a fan of GOE range being increased. As we've seen here, the top skaters are getting GOE favours regardless of the errors they make.

A second tier skater could land a clean jump and still be awarded 0 GOE whereas a top tier skater could have a turn out or two foot or step out or scratchy landing on the same jump and get awarded the same (or even +GOE), in spite of an error, just because of how prominent they are.

What they need to do is be harder on the judges who won't follow the rules. It specifically says no 10s for a program with falls and yet some judges did just that. They should be at least cautioned not to do that. If I do something at work that I'm specifically told not to then I'd expect to be reprimanded. Judges need to stop using the GOE system to do what the old Artistic Impression marks used to do: Hold up certain skaters and keep down others.

 

[ancientpeas]

That's the way to go I think We will see less quads but more often than now - the clean ones.

Is it wrong that I secretly want, if the element is so awful, for the GOE to push it into the negative scoring wise? Like if your jump has a terrible air position, landing, take off and one of those huge cross ice build ups then why should you get any points for it? Is this a participation award? "Congratulations Jimmy! We all know you can't do a triple axel to save your life but you tried so here is 5 points!" That my friend is Bull****.
I also hate when slow, traveling spins with ugly positions get positive GOEs.

 

[ancientpeas]

So how do those extremely sour grapes taste?

What is weird about that statement is that in Canada we have Patrick who will never be the best technical skater. Also if this person knew Canadian skating history they would know how much more beloved Kurt is than Elvis and how Toller is still, by us older fans, revered. And Jeff Buttle! Hardly the greatest technical skater but an artist for sure. Unless Canada suddenly is not part of North America? I know those darn Mexicans only care about jumps and winning so..and don't even get me started on the Jamaicans! All they care about is bobsled anyway. :sarcasm:
And yes.. what about Evan L., last North American to win Olympic Gold? The big issue for many Russian fans was him beating Evgeni without having a quad. No one questioned Evan's artistry. (I found him boring and preferred Plushenko)

 

[MIM]

I do understand a lot people really like Seimei, but seriously as a music aficionado, I really appreciate Nathen's FS program more, especially their contrast is so stark, so much complexity, intricacy, textured, interesting, dynamism, ethereal build up to power, epic grandeur challenge of Nathen's rite passage so much. (I wish this is the program conceived for Han Yan all these years ago, his career would have been quite different today, and I think he has the edge quality and sensitivity to do this type of program justice)

Everything I hope to see in a skater's program. I just love this program for him. So many interesting variations, alteration challenging moments to express and interplay... it is conceived as an ambitious artistic challenge and Olympic moment. Terrific choice. This program wins for me by miles.
Originality, creativity, modernity really helps!

I totally agree with you about Han Yan and Nathan both.

As a person who watched the film in a theater when released (there are not many), the film is not critically acclaimed or anything. But I felt something different as an Asian immigrant, who happened to love art and dance. I think the film and its ost is a great platform to build a program, that is meaningful and creative.

 

[qwertyskates]

I'm not bickering. I'm pointing out that falls adversely affect performances and should be penalized accordingly on components as well. I've also explained why I think falls adversely affect component scores.

If you think a skater falling 3 times and a step out as well deserves 9.25 for Performance (and up to 9.50 on other components), that's on you, and you're entitled to think so. Someone's fave skater (or one of their faves) could fall 20 times and they could say each one isn't disruptive since he got up, and so 9.75 is totally fine for Performance. That's an opinion (while not the most agreeable one) that they are entitled to.

And I don't think Chan (who is a way better skater overall than Kolyada, and deserves higher PCS by comparison, mind you) has ever had a performance where he's fallen 3 times and gotten as generous scores as Kolyada got here.

These are your words:

A performance with 3 falls should definitely not score in the 9's for *any* skater. The best skaters (of which I disagree Kolyada is, for now) with 1 fall should be scoring 9.25 at best for performance. With 3 falls the very best skaters should be getting mid-8's.

I am one of Patrick's biggest fans, but I've got to be honest, he fell several times (4) in two competitions and still received top PCS. Many disagreed with awarding him high PCS for his falls. I fought back against his critics because of the quality of his overall performance, edges, quality of his footwork, his spins, stepsequences, etc. Kolyada deserves the same consideration - he is a dedicated and hardworking athlete with a great deal of experience, who battled injuries, and after so many years his PCS (high 80s) are still nowhere near the top tier. Yet his other qualities are definitely there, speed, flow, edges, footwork, ice coverage, etc. Unfortunately he isn't invested in or given great programs - he had to repeat that Nightingale Tango over like, what, 4 seasons? He has landed his jumps before, he isn't faking his falls, I just don't think it's fair to trash him just because he is bearing a flag from a different country.

Before Hanyu's fans start gloating, don't forget he fell twice to win Olympic gold.

Misha is adorable and a good mid-tier skater, but his programs, while lovely, are simply not at the level of difficulty, the BV, and in the end, it's still a sport. Athletism has to count too, otherwise it's going to lose its appeal as a real sport.


From wikipaedia:

Chan was assigned to the 2010 Skate Canada International and to the 2010 Cup of Russia for the 2010–11 ISU Grand Prix season. At the Skate Canada, Chan had a collision with Adam Rippon during the morning practice before the short program.[43] He placed fourth in the short program after with 73.20 points, after falling on his quad toe loop jump, his triple axel and his step sequence. He won the free skating earning a new personal best of 166.32 points after landing a quad toe loop jump and five more triple jumps, and was first overall with 239.52 points. It was his first time landing a quad in an ISU competition.[44] Although he fell on a triple axel to make it four falls over the course of the competition, his total score was high enough to earn the gold medal.[45] Chan also struggled with consistency at 2010 Cup of Russia, accumulating another four falls over the competition. He was first in the short program with 81.96 points, where he landed a quad toe loop-triple toe loop combination and fell on a triple axel.[46] In the free skating, he fell on a quad and two triples.[47] Chan scored 145.25 points in the segment and finished in second place overall, 3.1 points behind Tomáš Verner. His combined placements qualified him for the Grand Prix Final.

 

[qwertyskates]

About the crying fan, first, to me personally, it's rather unsporting of anyone to cry during a great athlete's performance if one's favorite might be surpassed, a great skate is a great skate, regardless.

That said, it's nobody's business either, if this is what she is as a super fan and what she can't help doing. Unfortunately, the camera picks it up because it makes for good ratings.

My only objection would be how this affects both Nathan and Yuzu.

I actually felt the chill when Nathan skated, it felt very uncomfortable to me, and I wondered if Nathan had the werewithal to deliver? It'll take nerves of steel. In the end, it's good psychological training for Nathan.

I think Yuzu must feel really bad about this, knowing what type of person he is. So it isn't great for Yuzu either.

The only solution is to ban such footage, but the media loves drama and ratings, it's their nature, and in an unfortunate way, good for the sport because of the extra attention this garners.

So I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, in the end. :confused2: