Japan Open - more entries announced

[yoloaxel]

Zagitova skating poorly is an anomaly
Kostner skating cleanly is also an anomaly

And skating 6 triples cleanly is of course easier than skating 7 triples cleanly. 6 triples won't get you anywhere in Russia or Japan, but in Italy, she can qualify to any championship with that.

It's true that Carolina is inconsistent, but I think the fact that she's still skating at her level at her age is amazing (her SP this year was an absolute gem). Yes her tech content isn't anywhere near Alina's or many younger girls, but her SS and interpretation are still something that I'm happy is still around for me to see I don't see the problem with her being at JO which is a show more than a serious competition!

Plus, yes I think Carolina's PCS were a joke last season in her FS (tbh she deserved high marks for her SP, the only truly inflated one there imo was transitions) but at the same time Alina's PCS also did not reflect the reality of her skating (in her case, more the performance\interpretation bit for example, again imo) - the same thing can be said about a lot of ladies in the last quad tbh, so this doesn't want to be an attack towards either of them!

 

[yume]

It is absoluely a smart move from JO organizers to have Zagitova-Costner team for Europe. It will bring the biggest audience as it is clear that Zagitova-Medvedeva is an impossible combination before GPF.

The biggest question is if Caro feels capable of showing something adequate that early in the season. If she bombs very big time it might be a very unfortunate start for her. And I am sure that judges keep tracking of big time bombing even if it happens at JO. If Caro gets something below 120, well, that might be it. But let's stay positive. If somehow she is in good shape and manages to do at least 4-5 nice triples - then she might be relevant through the whole season. Go Caro!

A thing that i agree with is that Japan Open is more a show and that scores are not an indication about the future marks that skaters will get. Last year, Mai Mihara got 147 points, beating Medvedeva on TES and Zagitova on PCS (She skated really amazingly) But for the same quality of free skate in her first GP, she lost 6 points on PCS and more than 2 points on TES.
So i think that even if Kostner bombs, judges will not remember that when they will score her in other events.

 

[[email protected]]

A thing that i agree with is that Japan Open is more a show and that scores are not an indication about the future marks that skaters will get. Last year, Mai Mihara got 147 points, beating Medvedeva on TES and Zagitova on PCS (She skated really amazingly) But for the same quality of free skate in her first GP, she lost 6 points on PCS and more than 2 points on TES.
So i think that even if Kostner bombs, judges will not remember that when they will score her in other events.

I immediately remember Gracie. That was her first start after Boston. Somehow she could not gain a proper momentum after she bombed JO 2 seasons ago.

 

[ladyjane]

I love JO, and I especially like it that it's also a bit of a show, a place to show both new competitive programmes and new professional programmes with an enthusiastic audience that doesn't trivialise any skater. My kind of audience. I love it that Caro is invited as I happen to adore her skating, and I feel the audience there does too. And, as I recall from some interviews, both Medvedeva and Zagitova felt very inspired by Caro's longevity, so I truly don't understand why it is necessary for anyone to set oneself up as better than these two young guns in downplaying Caro's achievements in the sport.

 

[lavenderblossom]

And Kostner was 4th, beating every North American besides Osmond.

My point is that Kostner and Deniss are both skaters who don't have the highest technical difficulty but are still pleasant skaters to watch who are ranked high enough (or score high enough) to deserve spots at Japan Open. I was pointing out that the poster was trying to trivialize Kostner (who has skated clean this season contrary to their assertion) and point out that a skater like Vasiljevs can also be clean with not relatively considerable difficulty but still be worth having compete.

To me it appeared that you were throwing Deniss under the bus to defend Carolina. Glad to hear that that was not what you meant.

 

[yume]

I immediately remember Gracie. That was her first start after Boston. Somehow she could not gain a proper momentum after she bombed JO 2 seasons ago.

Maybe because she skated poorly at each event after JO (because of her health). It's early in the season. Many skaters are not in shape at the start of the season but get better after competition after competition.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Zagitova skating poorly is an anomaly
Kostner skating cleanly is also an anomaly

And skating 6 triples cleanly is of course easier than skating 7 triples cleanly. 6 triples won't get you anywhere in Russia or Japan, but in Italy, she can qualify to any championship with that.

And yet, with just 5 clean triples in her FS Kostner beat both Japanese entries at the 2017 Grand Prix Final, and with just 4 clean triples in her FS, she beat all 3 Russian entries at 2018 Worlds.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well, the problem is that some can't think that her longevity is great, and think at the same time that maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, it was just even a bit easier for her to keep competing in international major events all these years.
They think that Carolina had exactly the same chances than others to get international spots. Like the same chances than Fumie Suguri who didn't qualify for her 4th olympics because she finished 7th at Japanese nationals with 161 points (in a field full of worlds champions and medalists in big events). While Carolina the same season got the sole italian olympic spot by losing to Valentina Marchei and finishing 2nd with 155 points.

All these people saying she has it easier than Russia and Japan, and while it is true those fields are harder than Italy, Kostner still has continually beaten Russian and Japanese representatives (including national champions) sent to the GPF/Worlds/Olympics.

If Kostner was placing out of the top 10 and kept losing to the Japanese and Russian skaters (putatively the strongest fields), then the argument of her longevity being due to her nationality (and getting to easily go to Worlds, by not having to compete at Russian/Japanese nationals) would actually hold more weight.

 

[yude]

Oda says he will be doing quad(s) and counter-3A in JO and he wants to reflect what he gets under the new rule to his students. Good coach :thumbsup:

https://twitter.com/hlk0703/status/1018436420766011394

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Sure. But I think it does Team Europe a disservice to pick someone who since coming back, has never skated 7 clean triples in a free skate, to compete in a free skate only competition. Just like SPs seem to be what Alina most struggles with, and I would never pick her for a SP competition -- see Olympic team event where she wisely was given the free and Medvedeva the short, Kostner struggles most with FSs. And that's why I think it's not a good idea to have her at JO.

 

[yume]

Oda says he will be doing quad(s) and counter-3A in JO and he wants to reflect what he gets under the new rule to his students. Good coach :thumbsup:

https://twitter.com/hlk0703/status/1018436420766011394

A very exemplary coach.:agree:

 

[itoja]

Sure. But I think it does Team Europe a disservice to pick someone who since coming back, has never skated 7 clean triples in a free skate, to compete in a free skate only competition. Just like SPs seem to be what Alina most struggles with, and I would never pick her for a SP competition -- see Olympic team event where she wisely was given the free and Medvedeva the short, Kostner struggles most with FSs. And that's why I think it's not a good idea to have her at JO.

Fortunately there are still places on this Earth where SKATING matters, not only collecting points. In Japan they know what a good skating is, and that's what they want to see. That's why the beloved artists like Carolina, Jeremy Abbott or Javier Fernandez will be invited to JO as long as they're able to skate.

Japan Open is an unofficial opening of the new skating season in Japan. It is all about presenting new programs and just celebrating SKATING. No one really takes seriously scores and results there. So please, wait with your bickering until the real competitions start.

 

[Mrs. P]

Sure. But I think it does Team Europe a disservice to pick someone who since coming back, has never skated 7 clean triples in a free skate, to compete in a free skate only competition. Just like SPs seem to be what Alina most struggles with, and I would never pick her for a SP competition -- see Olympic team event where she wisely was given the free and Medvedeva the short, Kostner struggles most with FSs. And that's why I think it's not a good idea to have her at JO.

She did skate a 7-triple free skate to win the bronze in Sochi. Anyway, it's the event organizer's choice who to invite.

Maybe she will surprise.

ETA: Ah, I just saw the "since coming back part." Still it's a pro-am event and each team has "older" skaters.

 

[TGee]

Fortunately there are still places on this Earth where SKATING matters, not only collecting points. In Japan they know what a good skating is, and that's what they want to see. That's why the beloved artists like Carolina, Jeremy Abbott or Javier Fernandez will be invited to JO as long as they're able to skate.

Japan Open is an unofficial opening of the new skating season in Japan. It is all about presenting new programs and just celebrating SKATING. No one really takes seriously scores and results there. So please, wait with your bickering until the real competitions start.

Thank you [emoji253]

 

[Interspectator]

Oda says he will be doing quad(s) and counter-3A in JO and he wants to reflect what he gets under the new rule to his students. Good coach :thumbsup:

https://twitter.com/hlk0703/status/1018436420766011394

He said last JO would be the end, but I'm glad he changed his mind. Show those youngsters who is still boss!

 

[Mrs. P]

He said last JO would be the end, but I'm glad he changed his mind. Show those youngsters who is still boss!

Just come back for real Nobu.

 

[BillNeal]

Sure. But I think it does Team Europe a disservice to pick someone who since coming back, has never skated 7 clean triples in a free skate, to compete in a free skate only competition. Just like SPs seem to be what Alina most struggles with, and I would never pick her for a SP competition -- see Olympic team event where she wisely was given the free and Medvedeva the short, Kostner struggles most with FSs. And that's why I think it's not a good idea to have her at JO.

I'm sure Team Europe will sleep better at night knowing that they have "the most decorated singles skater in the history of the" European Championships as one of their representatives. There was a period of three consecutive years during 2011-2013 when she carried European skating and earned the highest European placement at Worlds, getting a full set of World medals. With her resume, she is an asset on any team. Kudos to the organizers for realizing this.

As for the knowledgeable Japanese crowd, who are the ones that are actually going to attend the event, I'm sure they will be quite busy appreciating her beautiful skating skills, speed, and her always gorgeous step sequence rather than counting triples.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Fortunately there are still places on this Earth where SKATING matters, not only collecting points. In Japan they know what a good skating is, and that's what they want to see. That's why the beloved artists like Carolina, Jeremy Abbott or Javier Fernandez will be invited to JO as long as they're able to skate.

Japan Open is an unofficial opening of the new skating season in Japan. It is all about presenting new programs and just celebrating SKATING. No one really takes seriously scores and results there.

^

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Japan Open is an unofficial opening of the new skating season in Japan. It is all about presenting new programs and just celebrating SKATING. No one really takes seriously scores and results there.

Interesting...I was under the impression that there was a pretty large cash prize at hand. Considering the well documented cost of skating I’d have figured some of the skaters would take the event pretty seriously.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Interesting...I was under the impression that there was a pretty large cash prize at hand. Considering the well documented cost of skating I’d have figured some of the skaters would take the event pretty seriously.

The skaters do take it seriously, the crowd is just there to watch beautiful skating, either way I'm excited for this "competition" every year.