2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[skylark]

Personal net worth is kind of a fantasy number anyway as it takes into account things like endorsement deals that haven't come to fruition or stock options that haven't been cashed (and which if you were to sell might decrease the option and thus your net worth) in addition to actual assets like property. But for the last four years she's had a lot of major endorsement deals and ad campaigns so that number isn't too surprising. FWIW I found the $4 million number quoted here.

thank you for that excellent explanation; it makes sense that it's in part a "fantasy" number, and reflects those things you said.

FWIW, that table says Ashley's country is Germany, and Michelle Kwan's is England. I know where they get Germany -- Ashley was born there, even if her family left shortly thereafter. I don't know about Kwan's.

 

[skylark]

Yeah, this. Even for OGM winners. Brian Boitano is one of my all time faves. What skates of his immediately come to mind? Phantom of the Opera, Call the Wind Mariah, and that elephant thing, which may be my all time favorite skating skating program EVER, and I say that with strains of Bolero trying to creep into my head. All post gold medal programs. I feel the same about Browning, whom I was never that crazy about as an amateur, but came into his own as a pro. Yuka Sato, another gold medal non-winner. Hat Full of Stars, another fave performance of mine. I really don't remember skaters by their Olympic medals, but by their performances. Sometimes the body of their work and sometimes specific program.

:hap57: :hap93:

What an excellent post! And you've suggested a different answer, for me, to the original question from sk8luvr: "what will Ashley Wagner's legacy be"? In my opinion, this is the best answer.

Shine on, You Crazy Diamond
Pollack
Hip Hip Chin Chin
Black Swan
Samson and Delilah
Exogenesis, and
:dance2: :gclap: Moulin Rouge :luv17:

 

[skylark]

Darn it, i started this argument again!

Oh, that's really interesting, frida. I don't see it as an argument at all. I see it more as people working through their feelings about what happened, and allowing their opinions to evolve over time. Drivingmissdaisy expressed this so well. I imagine it's a process Gracie and her team have also gone through.

Of course, I don't think at all like a lawyer, thank the lord. . (just kidding,to all the lawyers and other good debaters amongst us! )

Just be glad that everyone's words and tone are respectful of Gracie and Karen .... unlike it would have been with others.:sad21:

I'm starting to lean this direction, too. I understood the need to go there, get the first program in a long time out of the way, and get a bye to Nationals. As time has passed, I think those are not valid enough reasons. In addition to someone else not getting the spot, Gracie's SP score (37.51) was almost 10 points lower than the next lowest SP (46.99) of the entire GP series this season. She isn't ready for a big event yet. It's crazy to me that her team thinks that someone who can't do a 2A two months before Nationals deserves a bye to that event. It's nothing personal against Gracie, but there is a certain level that is expected at these big competitions and her form isn't there yet.

 

[skatenewbie]

I'm starting to lean this direction, too. I understood the need to go there, get the first program in a long time out of the way, and get a bye to Nationals. As time has passed, I think those are not valid enough reasons. In addition to someone else not getting the spot, Gracie's SP score (37.51) was almost 10 points lower than the next lowest SP (46.99) of the entire GP series this season. She isn't ready for a big event yet. It's crazy to me that her team thinks that someone who can't do a 2A two months before Nationals deserves a bye to that event. It's nothing personal against Gracie, but there is a certain level that is expected at these big competitions and her form isn't there yet.

Gracie CAN do 2A. In practice she lands her 3F and 3Lz, even 3Lz-2T combo. She just did not deliver when it count. I'd say she's not ready 100% but its not like she can't land triples. Its mostly her mental toughness. I hope she can comeback strong in nats, or summer comp next year

 

[Nathan13]

What an excellent post! And you've suggested a different answer, for me, to the original question from sk8luvr: "what will Ashley Wagner's legacy be"? In my opinion, this is the best answer.

Shine on, You Crazy Diamond
Pollack
Hip Hip Chin Chin
Black Swan
Samson and Delilah
Exogenesis, and
:dance2: :gclap: Moulin Rouge :luv17:

Emphasis on the Hip Hip Chin Chin. I still think it's her best program and one of my personal all time favorites. A lot of skaters and performers in general could learn what it means to be authentic from this program. At Worlds and TCC it was just magic. It was uniquely fun in a non-cheesy way, and I don't know anyone else who could've pulled such a program off.

 

[chuckm]

Gracie CAN do 2A. In practice she lands her 3F and 3Lz, even 3Lz-2T combo. She just did not deliver when it count. I'd say she's not ready 100% but its not like she can't land triples. Its mostly her mental toughness. I hope she can comeback strong in nats, or summer comp next year

This is correct---Gracie was doing those jumps in practice with no difficulty. But it is a different experience to get out on the ice in front of an audience---and not just those seated in the arena---she was well aware that people from all over the world were watching to see what she could do. Nerves and self-doubt kicked in, and she froze.

It's not just her skating that is at 30-40% of what it should be, it's Gracie herself that is at that same level of recovery. Remember, she's kept herself out of sight for the last year or more, so just publicly stepping on the ice for the first time was an overwhelming experience for her.

I just hope she's not reading skating boards, because that could set back her emotional recovery drastically.

 

[skylark]

Emphasis on the Hip Hip Chin Chin. I still think it's her best program and one of my personal all time favorites. A lot of skaters and performers in general could learn what it means to be authentic from this program. At Worlds and TCC it was just magic. It was uniquely fun in a non-cheesy way, and I don't know anyone else who could've pulled such a program off.

:agree: Completely. You just used another word to describe Ashley that's perfectly apt. She has authenticity.

It's a two-edged sword. Because she has the courage to say what she thinks in the moment, which is part of authenticity, she gets so much hate. Ironically, that's part of why people believe what she says. But it's much more than being honest.

The authenticity is part and parcel of her skating itself, her character and heart on the ice.

 

[Moxiejan]

Gracie CAN do 2A. In practice she lands her 3F and 3Lz, even 3Lz-2T combo. She just did not deliver when it count. I'd say she's not ready 100% but its not like she can't land triples. Its mostly her mental toughness. I hope she can comeback strong in nats, or summer comp next year

If this was the case, she should have done the LP.

 

[mrrice]

At least Ashley Wagner really was born in Germany (on a U.S. army base).

Nice to see Madison Chock on the list of the world's richest skaters. :yes:

Me too. That's my bond with Ashley.

 

[Casual]

Gracie DID steal a spot! There is a large difference between simply having a “bad skate” and being completely unprepared to compete at anything resembling a GP level. I applaud her decision to seek a spot under the “comeback” rule, but am appalled that she didn’t WD in time for a sub to replace her. She absolutely had to have known that she wasn’t close to ready.

Who spot did Gracie "steal"? Were there a lot of volunteers fighting for a chance to go to Russia?

I noticed that the other GPs this year (America, Canada, Finland, Japan, France) had a much nicer array of skaters than Rostelecom. With the exception of Yuzuru (who got injured for his troubles), there were almost no notable performers. Perhaps people were not as anxious to go to that particular venue to compete?

 

[DenissVFan]

Perhaps people were not as anxious to go to that particular venue to compete?

Except for world champions, skaters don't choose their GPs.

 

[Moxiejan]

Who spot did Gracie "steal"? Were there a lot of volunteers fighting for a chance to go to Russia.

There were 10 skaters on the substitution list. No “volunteers” needed.

 

[Casual]

If this was the case, she should have done the LP.

We don't know what Gracie's physical and mental state was at the time. Athletes withdraw in the middle of competition due to illness or injury all the time. Mental injury must be just as carefully avoided as physical.

I admire Gracie for taking the first step to comeback, that took a lot of guts. I don't begrudge her withdrawal - if that's what's best for her health, than it was a smart thing to do. There will be other competitions.

What I am pissed about is Yuzuru not withdrawing. It was dumb to risk it. He could have ruined himself forever - and for what?

 

[Casual]

I would have to agree with this statement as far as filling Michelle Kwan's shoes but even Michelle couldn't have captured people's hearts if she hadn't been all over the television. The decline in figure skating fandom, IMO, has more to do with the lack of exposure in the media, one tour being closed and SOI going to less and less cities with the ticket costs going up and up. It's not easy for a family with 2 children to pay almost $100/ticket to see SOI and television coverage is pitiful. Until more people have access to figure skating its popularity in the US is going to continue on the downward trend.

Always liked Ashley and her fierce determination and possitivity.

IMO, the decline of fandom also had to do with two factors: perception of systemically unfair judging, and promotion of (ugly but proficient) technicians instead of (beautiful polished) performers.

For average fans, there are two major ways to enjoy a figure-skating competition - artistic or technical: either look at it primarily as "beautiful ballet on ice", or look at it as a "sport competition to see who jumps and rotates higher, further, faster, and skates more difficult programs".

If judging is perceived as inherently unfair ("strong federation bonus", "playing favorites" mean the game is fixed) - then one cannot enjoy the "sports competition" technical part of it. If artistic side is lacking - then one can no longer pretend this was art; better go to actual ballet.

Hence the loss of popularity.

 

[Mathman]

I look at Gracie's progress a little differently. Whenever a skater attempts to come back, whether from injury or other set-back, she has good days and bad days, good practices and not-so-good. Maybe today is a good one and you think, "I can do this! I really can!" Then tomorrow it's another day and you think, "I am just kidding myself, "

Some days it's both. You are hopeful going into the short, but bomb. That takes the wind out of your sails and you have to withdraw from the LP. There is no shame in that. Regroup for the next competition and try, try again.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

This is correct---Gracie was doing those jumps in practice with no difficulty. But it is a different experience to get out on the ice in front of an audience---and not just those seated in the arena---she was well aware that people from all over the world were watching to see what she could do. Nerves and self-doubt kicked in, and she froze.

I haven't seen many practice videos from Rostelecom, but the ones I did see didn't look like she is "doing those jumps in practice with no difficulty." Someone posted a clip of a 3F she did in warmup and, while she didn't fall, it was somewhere between < and <<. I don't recall her doing any triples in the practice run through, either. She did have an aborted salchow attempt. I'd be curious to see more clips of her doing good jumps, but I haven't come across any. I'm sure she has done all the jumps in practice, but you also have to have the percentages. If you're landing one out of every five attempts of a jump, it isn't ready for competition.

 

[Casual]

I look at Gracie's progress a little differently. Whenever a skater attempts to come back, whether from injury or other set-back, she has good days and bad days, good practices and not-so-good. Maybe today is a good one and you think, "I can do this! I really can!" Then tomorrow it's another day and you think, "I am just kidding myself, "

Some days it's both. You are hopeful going into the short, but bomb. That takes the wind out of your sails and you have to withdraw from the LP. There is no shame in that. Regroup for the next competition and try, try again.

This is partly what draws me to watching sports. Of course, it's always sublime to watch an outstanding performance from an athletic genius - but it's equally mesmerizing to witness human struggles and perseverance. It's very uplifting actually, to see a triumph of human spirit - when an athlete falls, fails, hurts... but gets up and goes on.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Some days it's both. You are hopeful going into the short, but bomb. That takes the wind out of your sails and you have to withdraw from the LP. There is no shame in that. Regroup for the next competition and try, try again.

If you enter a competition, I think the expectation should be that you will complete both segments. I'd be very happy to see Gracie return to a form close to where she was before. But I think she's going about it wrong if the plan is to only try to finish an event if the SP goes well. We're seeing this too much, not only from Gracie but from others.

 

[chuckm]

If you enter a competition, I think the expectation should be that you will complete both segments. I'd be very happy to see Gracie return to a form close to where she was before. But I think she's going about it wrong if the plan is to only try to finish an event if the SP goes well. We're seeing this too much, not only from Gracie but from others.

Yes, we saw that from Ashley at Skate America 2017.

 

[mrrice]

If you enter a competition, I think the expectation should be that you will complete both segments. I'd be very happy to see Gracie return to a form close to where she was before. But I think she's going about it wrong if the plan is to only try to finish an event if the SP goes well. We're seeing this too much, not only from Gracie but from others.

I find it odd that these skaters don't think they can redeem themselves with a strong free. That said, if a skater doesn't have a strong free, I think if they're uninjured, They should take their lumps and learn from the experience. I never learned anything by quitting.