2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[concorde]

I find it odd that these skaters don't think they can redeem themselves with a strong free. That said, if a skater doesn't have a strong free, I think if they're uninjured, They should take their lumps and learn from the experience. I never learned anything by quitting.

Disagree. It is one thing to be in top form and have a dud skate. In that situation it is possible to redeem oneself in the freeskate.

But here, these are top athletes who know they are not close to top form. The freeskate requires "more" of everything than the short and my bet is they recognize the potential for the freeskate to go even worse (let alone risk injury). With that in mind, I think it a good call.

With that in mind, my question is why are they even thinking they are competition ready since they are so far off their top form.

 

[mrrice]

Disagree. It is one thing to be in top form and have a dud skate. In that situation it is possible to redeem oneself in the freeskate.

But here, these are top athletes who know they are not close to top form. The freeskate requires "more" of everything than the short and my bet is they recognize the potential for the freeskate to go even worse (let alone risk injury). With that in mind, I think it a good call.

With that in mind, my question is why are they even thinking they are competition ready since they are so far off their top form.

What's the point of traveling all the way to Russia without 2 programs that you care about. Personally, "If Healthy" I'd be driven to redeem myself with a solid free even if I came in last place. I could leave the arena with my head held high.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

With that in mind, my question is why are they even thinking they are competition ready since they are so far off their top form.

In Gracie's case, I really believe the point of competing was to get the Nationals bye. Although we've heard some people say she wouldn't have had to compete, I'm a bit skeptical because an invitation to a conflicting event alone wasn't enough in the past (as we saw with Meissner).

The USFSA probably needs to modify the bye rule a bit. Maybe the skater needs to achieve some minimum score internationally that season if they didn't earn a bye from their previous National result. Gracie skated the worst SP, by a large margin, of the nearly 70 performed on the GP this season. She also has not skated a LP since her 2017 Nationals program that placed 9th in the segment, and yet has earned a place at 2019 Nationals. I'd like to see things be a bit more merit-based.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Disagree. It is one thing to be in top form and have a dud skate. In that situation it is possible to redeem oneself in the freeskate.

But here, these are top athletes who know they are not close to top form. The freeskate requires "more" of everything than the short and my bet is they recognize the potential for the freeskate to go even worse (let alone risk injury). With that in mind, I think it a good call.

With that in mind, my question is why are they even thinking they are competition ready since they are so far off their top form.

Well this pretty much applies to Karen at Tallinn Trophy. She went all the way to Estonia, nowhere near top competitive form, for what???? To skate less then three minutes and then WD. That's just crazy!

She was already recovering from an injury (is it fully healed?) so why travel half way across the globe, unfit for competition, and risk injury again and making it worse? Her situation is more confusing to me then Gracie's.

And I hope she paid for the trip herself and it wasn't by sponsor or fed. cause if it was and if I were them I would be really pissed off then.

 

[bobbob]

Gracie CAN do 2A. In practice she lands her 3F and 3Lz, even 3Lz-2T combo. She just did not deliver when it count. I'd say she's not ready 100% but its not like she can't land triples. Its mostly her mental toughness. I hope she can comeback strong in nats, or summer comp next year

This is correct---Gracie was doing those jumps in practice with no difficulty. But it is a different experience to get out on the ice in front of an audience---and not just those seated in the arena---she was well aware that people from all over the world were watching to see what she could do. Nerves and self-doubt kicked in, and she froze.

Please do not make things up. Show me the video in practice where she did a fully rotated triple. (And not from 2016) Gracie can't do a double axel or any triple (fully rotated) right now, and she knows better than anyone. You will see at nationals--though maybe she will improve by then, hopefully. It serves no one any good to overstate her abilities. This is most detrimental to her herself because she has the execute something she can't do, putting immense pressure on her.

 

[chuckm]

From Gracie's shocked reaction after the SP, I don't see that going on to the FS would have helped her in any way and could have damaged her emotional health even more. There would just have been more brickbats from the armchair critics who would have berated her for skating in the GP when she wasn't the same Gracie she used to be.

 

[mrrice]

From Gracie's shocked reaction after the SP, I don't see that going on to the FS would have helped her in any way and could have damaged her emotional health even more. There would just have been more brickbats from the armchair critics who would have berated her for skating in the GP when she wasn't the same Gracie she used to be.

Not being the same Gracie is far from what we saw. Look, when Elaine Zayak came back, she was arguably not the same Elaine. However, she could certainly land a triple toe in competition and that's all I expected from Gracie. I won't harp on this. I just wish her the best at Nationals.

 

[Moxiejan]

Yes, we saw that from Ashley at Skate America 2017.

Ashley’s Skate America situation was quite different. Despite having a disappointing SP, she did not withdraw. She DID take the ice and attempt her long program; iirc she landed several good jumps. But the increasing pain from her injury caused her to stop in mid-program and then withdraw. She at least was on the ice and paid respects to the audience.

 

[Casual]

Ashley’s Skate America situation was quite different. Despite having a disappointing SP, she did not withdraw. She DID take the ice and attempt her long program; iirc she landed several good jumps. But the increasing pain from her injury caused her to stop in mid-program and then withdraw. She at least was on the ice and paid respects to the audience.

I'm a huge believer in "better safe than sorry". Going out to compete anyway with an ongoing injury, that might make one a permanent cripple, is neither tough nor admirable; it's just stupid. Even if there's an Olympic gold at stake, it's a very tough call, whether to risk it - but IMHO it's absolute madness to do it "for the audience" or to prove something.

Health comes above all else. To hell with audience, because feelings and entertainment of armchair critics' are worth far less than an athlete's continued ability to live a healthy life.

(Yes, I know, many athletes are so used to "working through pain" that it's very hard to stop them from hurting themselves. But at least we should not encourage such reckless behavior!)

 

[moonvine]

i really don't think you understand the implications of mental health issues...what an extremely judgemental post.

And this is EXACTLY why people, especially athletes (not just skaters...look at Michael Phelps for example) don't talk about their mental health issues.

 

[moonvine]

Emphasis on the Hip Hip Chin Chin. I still think it's her best program and one of my personal all time favorites. A lot of skaters and performers in general could learn what it means to be authentic from this program. At Worlds and TCC it was just magic. It was uniquely fun in a non-cheesy way, and I don't know anyone else who could've pulled such a program off.

I loved this program also.

 

[Moxiejan]

I'm a huge believer in "better safe than sorry". Going out to compete anyway with an ongoing injury, that might make one a permanent cripple, is neither tough nor admirable; it's just stupid. Even if there's an Olympic gold at stake, it's a very tough call, whether to risk it - but IMHO it's absolute madness to do it "for the audience" or to prove something.

In Ashley’s case, she wasn’t dealing with a crippling injury. She had an infected area that felt OK when padded, but evidently the pad slipped after one of the jumps & that’s when she couldn’t continue.

Every athlete who competes is out there to prove something. Maybe to an audience. Maybe to themselves. Maybe both.

 

[Casual]

Going back to prospects of US ladies. Bradie is the best one so far, judging by GPs.

Bradie quite grew on me. I didn't like her at all during last year's nationals and the Olympics (her style was too gawky and childlike for my taste). But I found her much improved this season.

Her choice of music for LP helped a lot, it was wonderful - but more importantly, her performance was not at all bad. It wasn't a case of "so-so skating masquerading under pretty costumes and awesome music" (as is too often the case); she actually skated with feeling and increasing finesse. I found myself enjoying and routing for her.

 

[moonvine]

Ashley’s Skate America situation was quite different. Despite having a disappointing SP, she did not withdraw. She DID take the ice and attempt her long program; iirc she landed several good jumps. But the increasing pain from her injury caused her to stop in mid-program and then withdraw. She at least was on the ice and paid respects to the audience.

And people were really angry with her for withdrawing.

 

[mrrice]

And people were really angry with her for withdrawing.

I think disappointed is a better word. I'll never be angry with someone who does what they think is best for them as only they know what's truly going on. If I were to be angry with anyone, it would be the coaches. I would have performed through my hip injury if my directors would have let me. It was a wise decision that they pulled me from the cast until I was cleared by a doctor. I know that Raf was not exactly happy with Ashley that day.

 

[bobbob]

This is correct---Gracie was doing those jumps in practice with no difficulty..

Since you responded, chuckm, could you please elaborate to me where Gracie "was doing those jumps in practice with no difficulty"? I have scoured a long time and could not come to this conclusion. Since you seem to be someone who values facts I was wondering whether you had anything concrete. Or is this totally made up? At the Cup of Russia she had 3 recorded practices...

11/15 did not do any jumps marked all jumps
11/16 3Lz<<+ 2T, 1Lo <, 3Fe < marked most jumps
11/17 2Lo, 1A marked most jumps, 3Lz < + 2T
Short Program 2Lz+2T, 3Fe< (fall), A*

Of course there are more practices, but I could not see anywhere she had landed a double axel or any triple jump. The only thing I could dig up was a double axel which was done on a harness.

I think before we discuss her even further and make speculations of her "nerves" we should understand her situation first. I think if you attribute all of Gracie's issues to nerves that will be very unhelpful to her.

 

[flipsydoodle]

Ashley’s Skate America situation was quite different. Despite having a disappointing SP, she did not withdraw. She DID take the ice and attempt her long program; iirc she landed several good jumps. But the increasing pain from her injury caused her to stop in mid-program and then withdraw. She at least was on the ice and paid respects to the audience.

She knew she was injured going into the competition. She could have given someone else her slot. And it more looked to me like “heck with this” (her scores were lower than was anticipated after the short, after all) rather than “ouch, I could make this worse”.

 

[Moxiejan]

She knew she was injured going into the competition. She could have given someone else her slot. And it more looked to me like “heck with this” (her scores were lower than was anticipated after the short, after all) rather than “ouch, I could make this worse”.

As far as I remember, she had an ankle infection (from a boot rub) that didn’t worsen until a couple days before the event. This was more like a sudden illness than a long-term injury. Withdrawing 2 days before the start of SA would not have been enough time to give her spot to someone else.

 

[figurefan0726]

I might be the only one but I hate how Bradie Tennell skates. She skates really wobbly and uncleanly. I hope she clears up her edges. Her programs aren’t good this year either, especially her short program. I don’t get the meaning.

 

[Moxiejan]

I might be the only one but I hate how Bradie Tennell skates. She skates really wobbly and uncleanly. I hope she clears up her edges.

Bradie is one of the few skaters to consistently get Level 4 & +GOE on her footwork (as she did in both programs at IdF), so clearly the judges are finding something to like in her edges.