- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
And when did crowd response become part of the criteria for PCS?
2004?
Presentation
Projection: The skater radiates energy resulting in an invisible connection with the audience.
And when did crowd response become part of the criteria for PCS?
Presentation
Projection: The skater radiates energy resulting in an invisible connection with the audience.
With Denney and Coughlin it wasn’t just a bad landings. They popped their SBS jumps in both the SP and FS. They got higher PCS than Felicia and Nate in both segments but pops just are so costly.
There was a body of work factor back there cause usfs did give D/C Worlds (they had to w/d and Felicia and Nate ended up going there). I wonder if this scenario played out in 2018 how the selection would have turned out.
Also fwiw, Alexa and Chris did win nationals and get the sole Olympic spot with a so-so, not clean, FS. (The quad twist was super cool and helped)
Should we do away with the judges, then, and let the audience decide who wins? And when did crowd response become part of the criteria for PCS?
IIRC they were not penalized for Alexa's slightly 2 footed landing on the quad twist.
I’m going to let this go, we’re going to have to disagree on this one ... so 2019 y’all?
I totally agree with this. There have been too many instances where its almost seems as if the audience is the one judging the competition. Kayne/O'Shea in 2016 was one example, and even worse was Denney / Coughlin losing out on a much deserved Olympic berth despite a far superior (though less clean) skate than Zhang/Bartholomay in 2014.
It wasn't superior in the objective Executed Elements category. Zhang/Bartholomay's elements had a base value of 59.41. Denney/Coughlin's base value was 55.55.
Z/B earned 11.99 GOE points, for a total technical score of 71.40. D/C earned 13.52 GOE points, for a total technical score of 69.07.
Z/B component score was 63.82. D/C component score was 66.96.
So the judges did everything they could to help Denney and Coughlin get second place. But Zhang and Bartholomay out-skated them on the technical mark. Their GOE points lagged way behind D/C, but Z/B had all positive GOE, whereas D/C had a minus .51 for the single Axel/single toe/single toe.
These numbers show the true numerical effect of a clean skate over a skate with one costly error.
I would add that the audience got it right. But the audience didn't influence the judges. The judges did everything they could to favor D/C.
https://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2014/2014_us_fs_champs/CAT003SEG006.html
*** before I get scolded ... I think this is highly relevant to 2019. JMO. The judges may well do everything they can to help Alexa and Chris, but if another team out-skates them in Technical Elements, and skates cleaner, I think and hope that other team would win, and fairly.
Being clean/favorite also boosts your technical calls and GOEs. The technical score is not totally objective either.
.
Z/B were really struggling with levels, both before and after Nats. D/B really excelled in that aspect. Guess what happens at Nationals? For instance, Z/B got a level 1 on their twist at Skate America, D/B got level 3. They both got level 3 at Nats. (I did not think Z/B twist deserved a level 3, and that would have done it right there in terms of the result) Z/B got only one level 4 overall at Skate America. D/B got only one element that was NOT a level 4 at Skate America. At Nationals, both teams got the same levels, 2 non level 4 elements. Z/B were definitely propped up in that regard, they did not improve their levels that much in a couple months. (Of course, I am not suggesting levels don't change over time. But did Z/B really improve their levels that dramatically at Nats, before regressing again at Olys/Worlds?)
Despite that unfairness, it makes sense the team skating clean will have the highest BV. But GOEs on other elements and PCS is where the judges should reward quality on other elements and skating skills, and their judgement should not be punctuated by the emotional aspect/audience/etc.
It's my understanding they aren't doing the quad twist this year, is this incorrect?
I have to confess that I, for one, have no problem with skaters getting a boost in PCS when they tear the roof off the place. The Program Components give the judges the chance to reward the performance taken as a whole, rather than so many points for a triple flip, so many points for a level 3 combination spin. (Or for that matter, so many points for "rhythmic knee action" in SS).
If the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, that is all to the good. Sport and Performance Art, in balance. :yes:
Plus, what's wrong with the paying audience leaving the arena buzzing, "Wow, did you see that?!"
Also people really underestimate the skill it takes to project to the audience while trying to do athletic feats. It’s not as easy as people make it out to be.
I have to confess that I, for one, have no problem with skaters getting a boost in PCS when they tear the roof off the place. The Program Components give the judges the chance to reward the performance taken as a whole, rather than so many points for a triple flip, so many points for a level 3 combination spin. (Or for that matter, so many points for "rhythmic knee action" in SS).
If the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, that is all to the good. Sport and Performance Art, in balance. :yes:
Plus, what's wrong with the paying audience leaving the arena buzzing, "Wow, did you see that?!"
And why bother to have Nats if Worlds/Oly teams are judged only on what they "could" do or what they did on the GP? Too bad, so sad, they didn't do it at Nats.
Because Worlds and the Olympics are competitions? I, for one, want to send our strongest team just like the Russians and Japanese do!
Well, they haven't done it so far but there may have been a hint or two they're training it? It's a good question, since the quad twist isn't worth as much this year. I also remember Alexa saying, the year they did it, that doing the quad made doing their triple twist a challenge. Which they still had to do because quad twist isn't allowed in the SP. So I imagine they're calculating and strategizing. Since their triple twist already gets sky-high GOEs, they might just work on getting it spectacular every time. And getting a level four on it every time. It's something for us to wonder about!
Because Worlds and the Olympics are competitions? I, for one, want to send our strongest team just like the Russians and Japanese do!