US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

[TontoK]

Because it's a man's world. Misogyny is everywhere, ingrained in everthing. Figure Skating is not immune to the larger culture.

Or, maybe it's because he was an innocent man, unjustly accused. We don't know.

Which is why I advocate waiting for the facts.

He wouldn't be the first man to lead a double existence - pillar of the community in public and in the eyes of his family/friends, something entirely different in private. And he wouldn't be the first man who was falsely accused of scandalous and/or criminal actions.

 

[Metis]

Or, maybe it's because he was an innocent man, unjustly accused. We don't know.

Which is why I advocate waiting for the facts.

He wouldn't be the first man to lead a double existence - pillar of the community in public and in the eyes of his family/friends, something entirely different in private. And he wouldn't be the first man who was falsely accused of scandalous and/or criminal actions.

SafeSport has said the investigation is unlikely to be completed. We will almost certainly never know the facts.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Again - making no judgments about this case at all...

I found this confusing. According to that lady on the TSL video, she was being asked about Coughlin in the 90's. Twenty years ago, He would have been 13.

Maybe I misunderstood something - that interview was a trainwreck- but this doesn't make much sense.

I don’t suspect she was a victim but rather was just material to the investigation as they were looking for evidence of a pattern of behavior most likley. She probably follows TSL and reached out to Dave to tell her story.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

SafeSport has said the investigation is unlikely to be completed. We will almost certainly never know the facts.

We’ll have to wait and see about that. I’m not sure if they can just withhold their findings and proceed to close up shop here with all things being considered. Some may feel compelled to examine their findings and I can’t imagine it’s a precedent they are going to want to set in regards to how suicides are handled, In my eyes this is an incentive to for an accused to sacrifice their life and potentially hide the truth of their actions.

In a way it’s like one last attack of control over their victim if they were in fact guilty.

 

[TontoK]

SafeSport has said the investigation is unlikely to be completed. We will almost certainly never know the facts.

This is the wrong response, in my opinion.

Minors have claimed abuse. A man has taken his own life. The truth needs to come out.

 

[Alexz]

This is the wrong response, in my opinion.

Minors have claimed abuse. A man has taken his own life. The truth needs to come out.

not the "truth", but justice. Victims deserve justice, or if the guy was wrongfully accused he deserves his reputation to be cleaned, and the ones who wronfully accused him should face the music. But yes, public needs to know was the guy actually guilty. But jusitce should have bgiger prioorty than truth

 

[bobbob]

SafeSport has said the investigation is unlikely to be completed. We will almost certainly never know the facts.

That is disgusting if true. You accuse someone and after they take their own life due to your allegations you stop the investigation with no closure? Is there any group that does not want the investigation to finish so we can find out what the truth actually is? Do the cops stop investigating a murder when the suspect takes their own life? Never. So unprofessional.

I really hate the idea of SafeSport. Sexual misconduct is not a figure skating thing, or sport thing. If someone is a sex offender and unfit to interact with certain groups of people, why is banning them from figure skating the solution? They could switch to being a gymnastics coach or school teacher and commit the same offense. By this logic we need a Safe patroller for every single profession, activity in society... oh right, it's called law enforcement. Why does a private organization have so much authority in conducting definitive investigations on individuals in the first place?

 

[rachno2]

If SafeSport won’t investigate, is there another organization that could take over the case? Or does the suspect need to be alive?

 

[andromache]

I think there is some merit in private organizations being able to punish people even if they are unable to be found guilty in a court of law. It is incredibly difficult for a victim (especially minors) to have to testify in a courtroom. Many victims would rather not go through the trauma of a trial. Many sex crimes simply do not have enough evidence for a prosecutor to be willing to bring charges, even if a victim is credible (since a credible victim is often not enough). Sometimes crimes are beyond the statute of limitations and law enforcement is powerless. Sometimes law enforcement just isn’t interested in pursuing more “mild” cases such as harassment or grooming.

The accused in these types of cases, while they 100% maintain their presumption of innocence in the eyes of the law, may still not be safe in certain positions of authority. If a person has not been found guilty in a court of law (for whatever reason, listed above) but there is substantial risk they are a predator, a private organization does not want to take on that risk. A private organization should (ideally) want those people out. Or just cover up any scandal.

 

[moonvine]

That is disgusting if true. You accuse someone and after they take their own life due to your allegations you stop the investigation with no closure? Is there any group that does not want the investigation to finish so we can find out what the truth actually is? Do the cops stop investigating a murder when the suspect takes their own life? Never. So unprofessional.

I really hate the idea of SafeSport. Sexual misconduct is not a figure skating thing, or sport thing. If someone is a sex offender and unfit to interact with certain groups of people, why is banning them from figure skating the solution? They could switch to being a gymnastics coach or school teacher and commit the same offense. By this logic we need a Safe patroller for every single profession, activity in society... oh right, it's called law enforcement. Why does a private organization have so much authority in conducting definitive investigations on individuals in the first place?

I agree. Sexual abuse is a crime and should be handled through the courts. If the coach is in jail they can't hurt anyone. When/if they get out they will be on the sex offender registry. Surely that would be enough to keep them from coaching? Why is this separate thing needed?

 

[moonvine]

If SafeSport won’t investigate, is there another organization that could take over the case? Or does the suspect need to be alive?

I can't imagine who would. If a person dies by any means and law enforcement believes they are guilty of something I don't think they continue to investigate. But who knows, I'm not a member of law enforcement.

 

[rachno2]

I agree. Sexual abuse is a crime and should be handled through the courts. If the coach is in jail they can't hurt anyone. When/if they get out they will be on the sex offender registry. Surely that would be enough to keep them from coaching? Why is this separate thing needed?

Please see andromache's post, right above yours. The accuser does not pick up the phone, call 911, and see the cops drag the suspect to jail. It does not work that way. Most sexual assault/misconduct crimes do not even result in jail or prison time once the investigation and trial have been completed. There are users on here who have bravely shared their personal experiences regarding why law enforcement is often not effective at dealing with these cases. Please read or reread them.

When the allegations are this serious, they demand immediate action in order to keep vulnerable parties safe, especially if the accused is in close proximity with those vulnerable parties. Hence, the restriction, and then the suspension. Coughlin did not lose his job, nor was he charged with anything. He was temporarily suspended from all figure skating events until a final ruling was made. I hope we can agree that keeping minors safe from a possible predator should be the #1 priority in this situation.

 

[Icey]

Hm. All we know now, having listened to the TSL interview, was that someone was interviewed in October 2018. So as far as we know, it took no less than three months. We do not know when the first alleged victim came forward.

The first alleged victim, one of his male students, came forward 20 years ago.

 

[rachno2]

The first alleged victim, one of his male students, came forward 20 years ago.

Are you mistaking Coughlin with Callaghan?

 

[NymphyNymphy]

That is disgusting if true. You accuse someone and after they take their own life due to your allegations you stop the investigation with no closure? Is there any group that does not want the investigation to finish so we can find out what the truth actually is? Do the cops stop investigating a murder when the suspect takes their own life? Never. So unprofessional.

I really hate the idea of SafeSport. Sexual misconduct is not a figure skating thing, or sport thing. If someone is a sex offender and unfit to interact with certain groups of people, why is banning them from figure skating the solution? They could switch to being a gymnastics coach or school teacher and commit the same offense. By this logic we need a Safe patroller for every single profession, activity in society... oh right, it's called law enforcement. Why does a private organization have so much authority in conducting definitive investigations on individuals in the first place?

SafeSport better see this through and give the victims and John's family some closure. A mess I tell you. A mess.

- - - Updated - - -

The first alleged victim, one of his male students, came forward 20 years ago.

Coughlin was a coach at the age of 13?

 

[beachmouse]

I agree. Sexual abuse is a crime and should be handled through the courts. If the coach is in jail they can't hurt anyone. When/if they get out they will be on the sex offender registry. Surely that would be enough to keep them from coaching? Why is this separate thing needed?

There are some things that are perfectly legal in the broader world but really not a good idea within the sporting realm. The one that comes to mind is intimate relationships between athlete and coach because the power dynamic can be so skewed in those relationships, especially when you're talking something like an 18 year old athlete and a coach twice that age. This is even more so when there is a financial link between athlete and coach- scholarship money in NCAA sports, better access to endorsement deals and promotional opportunities, ability to serve as a paid assistant coach for younger athlete groups, etc.

(Yes, pretty much any older person can rattle off a good number of coach-athlete relationships that turned into strong marriages or long time romantic partnerships, but there remain good reasons to discourage such things among a sporting group)

 

[Icey]

Are you mistaking Coughlin with Callaghan?

My original post was about Callaghan (146); Pearly (post 147) responded saying we don't know when the first victim came forward, which we do. I suspect Pearly is not one of the elders here and may not have known about Callaghan and the accusation brought against him 20 years ago. I will put in a link about Richard's recent suspension.

 

[Icey]

Richard Callaghan Suspended March 2018

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...4bfff693d2b_story.html?utm_term=.413f7df2de4f

 

[CellarDweller]

I can't imagine who would. If a person dies by any means and law enforcement believes they are guilty of something I don't think they continue to investigate. But who knows, I'm not a member of law enforcement.

I have a family member in law enforcement, but he wasn't much help. He said something like that is decided by people in a higher position than him. He did say that he believes it may vary from state to state, and he has heard of cases where suspects have been named in crimes after they've died.

I would hope that this case is continued to be investigated. The truth needs to be made public, the accusers need to have closure and justice.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The accused in these types of cases, while they 100% maintain their presumption of innocence in the eyes of the law, may still not be safe in certain positions of authority.

I think this is the most important takeaway here. We don't know, and we may never know, what happened. Protecting children and young adults is what matters most to me, so any organization is right to err on the side of caution in that regard. Unfortunately, sometimes that means an innocent coach can't have his name cleared until the investigation is complete. The alternative, which would be to leave a potentially dangerous coach in his position, seems far worse to me.