How to raise attendance at ISU events

[rugbyfan]

I think longevity is a big factor, (as is cost). I haven't been to a live event since 6.0 days. This, I admit, is largely because of a transatlantic move to a country uninterested in figure skating, but more recently it is also because I really need to know the people in a competition enough to really want to pay the time and cost. 2016-2018 I knew a lot of the key contenders and found myself looking up costs and prices to get to some of the Grand Prix events. IN particular, I admit, I wanted to see Chiddy and V and M live because I had found out that I had missed out on them. I didn't make it, but it was the first time in ages that I had tried to. Still sad I couldn't get the holiday. At the moment I am back in an apathy phase. There are people I want to see but not whole flights of familiars in the same way as towards the end of an Olympic cycle. I don't think the scoring system helps. When we moved away from 6.0 I also moved away from the sport because I couldn't understand it, and didn't want to spend the time. I now do follow it again (and understand the sport better than I did), but it has taken a lot more work, and requires me to be less of a casual fan than in the 6.0 era, and I still find the programs as a whole (except Ice Dance) less riveting so watching in batches rather than sitting through anything and everything as I used to do , is less appealing

 

[karne]

Don't block or delete videos on YouTube. Most of the Euro performances are now gone. Outside the skating fan community, no one knows the competition even existed.

This is a huge thing. The 4CC performances have also been zapped. I went back to watch Andrew's SP again last night and it was gone. Now, what does some television station gain from that? They're certainly not going to show him. His best performance ever is now buried deep on the internet where it can't be shared.

Someone mentioned that if they don't "know" skaters they wouldn't go. But how do people get to know skaters? Sharing Youtube links is a huge part of it!

 

[TallyT]

I think the idea somewhere above about giving free tickets to school parties is a good idea, actually. Sure, the kids may not take up the sport themselves, but starting them on an interest as spectators - getting them involved in admiring good skaters and having fun watching - would be great, even if their interest isn't as intense as wished for. Get them engaged enough to watch it when it's on TV, find some skaters to follow and favourite, and for crying out loud find a way to stop the taking videos off youtube so if they have a good enough time they can get home and search and find the good stuff. The ISU and the Feds need to put them up fast and leave them there.

Then if big stars do draw them in to buy tickets, that engagement, started off mildly, may get these people to stay for the whole shebang.

 

[TontoK]

How to raise attendance? Lower the price.

This seems so common sense, and I can't imagine why it's not viewed as a serious option.

True story: I used to go with buddies to see the Atlanta Braves back in the old days. Low attendance was an issue with the club. They offered $3 outfield seats, and they even let you bring your own food into the game. A family of 4 could go to a game and pick up a bucket of chicken on the way. Total cost $20.

Those seats would have gone unsold oherwise, and guess what? They GREW a very loyal fanbase, and you sure can't score seats so easily now. Not in the outfield, and certainly not for $3.

 

[moonvine]

This is a huge thing. The 4CC performances have also been zapped. I went back to watch Andrew's SP again last night and it was gone. Now, what does some television station gain from that? They're certainly not going to show him. His best performance ever is now buried deep on the internet where it can't be shared.

Someone mentioned that if they don't "know" skaters they wouldn't go. But how do people get to know skaters? Sharing Youtube links is a huge part of it!

I can go to USA Gymnastics Youtube Page and watch every single competition that they have rights to going way, way, way back. I watched one from 1976 not too long ago. I know the two sports are not the same, but they often have significant overlap in viewership.

 

[moonvine]

I also disagree. For one thing, do they even sell the upper-most seats for a skating competition other than Worlds or Nationals? And I sat in high-up seats for Worlds in Boston and thought the experience was way better than watching on TV (even leaving aside the fact that I didn't have to listen to Tara and Johnny).

I sat in high up seats in Boston and got vertigo. We swapped them for disabled seating because I was afraid my sister would fall - she already had almost fallen on the T. But any seats are better than TV!

I don't know about selling the upper most seats. Europeans looked pretty full, but I don't know the size of the arena.

 

[moonvine]

Andromache, et.al. I contacted a Canadian tour company - the name of which escapes me right, maybe Silver Skatees?, but I got it out of a skating magazine - last year and they sent the info to me about 3 weeks ago. The biggest cost is lodging. And that time of year with the weather and all you don't want to be too far away from the venue. To say I was shocked would be an understatement. I think with tickets, lodging and airfare from California it was going to cost me more than $6000 and that didn't include food, etc. There are many things I would rather do with $6000....could easily go to two Nats or Skate America and Skate Canada.

Just to dot the i and cross the t - when I have an all event ticket I go to all the events whether they're my favorite or not. There is something special about sitting in the arena and seeing "live" skating.

But those tour companies are way more than the cost if you DIY....at least that's what I've found.

 

[moonvine]

Very unclear cause everything is kept secret...except accidently to some of us. Everett was very pleased with the money they made and the attendance wasnt heavy. They are putting in for more events. Anaheim made a bunch of money off of me and PaulE. Hotel was $1100 ish, evening meals were $30, Drinks in the arena were $15, as were the heavy snacks. I attended a meeting for Spokane 2010 where Toby and Barb explained all the people who pledged money for the bid. An event floats many boats. And dont forget the facilities fee at what? 25%.
Having all of us fans and the skaters, coaches, et al is much better for Anaheim than letting the hotels and eateries and arena NOT have us....and there is economic trickle down. The people whose saleries we paid then can have money to spend. Car loans are being defaulted on at rates not seen since 2010. We have good economic impact for most cities. As to the main question, I have no answers. The Japanese fans are hard corps. I wish our culture were alittle bit more like the Japanese but no matter, I felt I got lots of value for my dollar seeing people like Vincent, Uno, Rika and the rest as compared to going to worship a rodent for what? $129 dollars a day??????????????? Plus parking? AND you have to stand in lines for the rides? Hey, the value for hour is THERE at the Honda center...I Dont mind shelling out bucks to see Celtic Woman but go ahead and figure out what you are spending per hour doing that vs watching skating....I got my money's worth.


(If one is coming in from beyond driving distance, there is a major cost to such a trip. I think my air ticket was $350-$400, Hotel was $1100, all event seat was $600 due to the facilities fee (added prophit) Food might have been $250. I dont see the cost of the seat as being a major component to the trip except for the facilites fee. Just compare it to the cost of going to seven major football games.)

Ref: Vegmom"It's kind of ridiculous to expect anyone to sit and watch everything. Like, do they have compression stockings on and are they taking baby aspirin or something? Because that much sitting is NOT healthy." Well, yes, sitting is not healthy. I am with you 100 percent. I walk to keep in shape. That is why we savy hi time attendees are walking laps in the concourse during breaks and walking to eateries over the river. Some days I put on 6 miles on my pedometer. I think I wore poor Paul out but I would slow down to his speed at least. Pity the poor airline pilots! How do they have time to walk on a flight over the pole? I did skip the first two groups of men at the FS. I napped.

My train ticket to Detroit was $70 ish each way. Hotel was $570. Personal driver who included buying me 3 12 packs of diet coke at CVS and sneaking cookies and brownies out of the hospitality suite for me was $120 for the week. Tickets were whatever the cheapest tickets were, I can't remember. Food was basically $0, I ate the free breakfast at the hotel and brought more of it up to the room for dinner. Mirai was $120. FOFS was $65 and brunch was $25. Parking was $0 because I accidentally parked in a $27 a night lot and it was $167 and I just kept looking at the guy saying "I thought it was $9 a night" and "I don't have $167." He finally just raised up the gate and said "Just go on." Thank you nice man!

BTW Greensboro has a form you can fill out and mail in to save Ticketmaster fees - THANK YOU Greensboro!

 

[moonvine]

Based of all the uh...bickering on this thread about Yuzuru and his fans, I think it's pretty clear that big stars sell tickets more than anything else, even if some people are unhappy about that. Unfortunately, Yuzuru's combination of ungodly talent, charisma, good looks, and likeable public persona are probably difficult for the ISU to replicate on any kind of reliable basis.

One thing I think would help is scoring PCS differently, instead of the confusing mess that it currently is. It's clear that some skaters have a certain on-ice presence and performance ability that is attractive to many viewers, but those skaters don't always have that reflected in their performance score--I'm thinking, for instance, Kevin Aymoz and Jason Brown to a lesser extent (sometimes Jason's PCS score is okay). If those skaters were scored more competitively, I think it would help increase the appeal of the figure skating to a wider audience--people are more likely to follow people who stand a higher chance of winning (Yuzu is not popular only because he is a spectacular performer and good looking, but also because he wins a lot). It would also encourage skaters to work on developing the kinds of qualities that are likely to attract audiences and fans.

Encouraging longevity, I think, is also important for developing stars. It's difficult to imagine fans sticking with the sport if their favorites disappear every couple of years.

My observation is that casual fans do not understand or like the fact that one skater with higher technical difficulty can fall a time or two and still beat another skater who has less technical difficulty but is very clean. Not everyone wants to refer to a rule book, protocols, etc and have the goal posts moved every year.

 

[moonvine]

I agree. Don't get me started about the way NBC promotes athletes. I thought it was a bit sad during the Sochi Olympics how much NBC promoted the ladies and how much casual audiences were surprised when our ladies fell short of the medals. Not to mention the "pretty princess" narrative they crafted and how that turned out for Gracie. As for Pyeongchang, the hype was so over the top that when Nathan completely bombed the short, lots of people just never tuned into the long. If NBC had also promoted, say, the comeback of Yuzuru Hanyu, the charm of Javier Fernandez, the beautiful jumps of Boyang Jin, etc. then maybe they wouldn't have acted like Nathan owed them a gold medal.

That being said, I do believe the ISU does an absolutely horrendous job of marketing skating to the demographic that they need to market to the most -- millennials and Gen Z'ers (the internet generations) -- and it has very little to do with hyping the big names of skating. First and foremost, I'd say they should listen to their customers. (For all of our sakes I hope "Telling them they're not good enough to be skating fans" isn't on their to-do )

NBC for the most part shows American skaters, and a few of the final flight who aren't American (maybe). They did not show any dance or pairs of 4CC's. It is ridiculous.

 

[moonvine]

I had said this in the context of attendance for events, like 4CC which struggled with attendance, and that if you promote the sport in lieu of primarily particular skaters, and encourage people to gain greater appreciation for a breadth of skaters and disciplines, then your attendance is bound to go higher. I also think it's a valid opinion to say that those who are interested in multiple disciplines are fans of skating moreso than those who aren't, and didn't me to offend - you're definitely welcome to disagree. It's the same with any sport - if you're only a fan of Lebron James, you're not really as much of a basketball fan compared to those who watch and appreciate the variety of talent/teams across the NBA. And the NBA does a great job of promoting franchise players along with other members of the NBA (I know, it's a team sport so it's apples and oranges, but the sentiment of stimulating interest by various players stands). And the smartest NBA teams promote a variety of their players so if their star player is injured or has to sit out, fans will still show up and will still pay to watch games.

It's fine if someone's just a fan of a skater, and it's their prerogative to show up to watch just that skater. However, it's a potential problem for organizers if a great deal of fans are like this, because attendance/interest is contingent on particular entry(ies). When team Canada got knocked out of the World Junior Hockey Championships in Canada recently, or when team Russia got knocked out of men's hockey in Sochi, it was a huge attendance issue for the organizers/sponsors/TV stations, because the focus/interest was primarily on the home team's success.

I suppose I am guilty of this to an extent - I mean I went to Worlds 2016 *specifically* to see Gracie. But I watched every ladies short program and enjoyed them all. I think we watched everything but the pairs short. We were really tired, and I had stupidly bought the tickets separately which meant I paid separate Ticketmaster fees for each one, so I just didn't buy them for the pairs short. If Gracie had not gone I would have been super disappointed, but there is no way on this earth I would not have gone. I got to see so many great skaters!

 

[moonvine]

Where are all these free tickets on offer I keep hearing about?

I tried to give away my ladies short tickets to Nationals because of Mirai, but no one wanted them. They weren't great seats. But they were free seats.

 

[moonvine]

Amen!!!

Personally I think Greensboro is very cheap. Well, for the cheap seats, which are what I buy.

 

[CoyoteChris]

My train ticket to Detroit was $70 ish each way. Hotel was $570. Personal driver who included buying me 3 12 packs of diet coke at CVS and sneaking cookies and brownies out of the hospitality suite for me was $120 for the week. Tickets were whatever the cheapest tickets were, I can't remember. Food was basically $0, I ate the free breakfast at the hotel and brought more of it up to the room for dinner. Mirai was $120. FOFS was $65 and brunch was $25. Parking was $0 because I accidentally parked in a $27 a night lot and it was $167 and I just kept looking at the guy saying "I thought it was $9 a night" and "I don't have $167." He finally just raised up the gate and said "Just go on." Thank you nice man!

BTW Greensboro has a form you can fill out and mail in to save Ticketmaster fees - THANK YOU Greensboro!

Mirai cost $120????????
Greensboro can be done on the cheep. I noted a slew of cheep motels just to the east of mine the last time I was there. Uber I think is much cheeper than that shuttle bus. I also remember a convieniece store.
Not gonna ride a train or big silver bird from Spo to Greensboro again.

 

[moonvine]

Mirai cost $120????????
Greensboro can be done on the cheep. I noted a slew of cheep motels just to the east of mine the last time I was there. Uber I think is much cheeper than that shuttle bus. I also remember a convieniece store.
Not gonna ride a train or big silver bird from Spo to Greensboro again.

Mirai cost $120. Scott Hamilton started at $200, USFSA had a messed up website where it said he was sold out even though no tickets had been sold. I informed them of the website screwup at the Mirai thing. They advertised him and dropped him to $150, which I totally would have paid if I had it. I'm not sure if he ever sold out. Mirai sold out in 20 minutes. I was dang lucky to happen to be staring at my phone at the time.

I'm driving to Greensboro. It won't be too awful, like 10-12 hours, plus my car will fit all the plushies in it. The cheapest all event tickets are $295 and include everything including the Skating Spectacular. They have a form you can fill out and send in to avoid Ticketmaster fees. AND they will even let you split it into 2 payments. I have never been to Greensboro but for that price, who cares? Bonus: my family lives like 4 hours away, so I can drop in and see them afterwards. So people who want to watch live skating but have not found it to be affordable, this is about the cheapest I've seen ever. $150 now and $150 May 1.

 

[iluvtodd]

^ We'll definitely have to meet up @ Greensboro, moonvine!

 

[narcissa]

To those of you saying no one wanted your free/cheap pairs and dance tickets....be realistic. People need to plan their trips! Giving away a ticket a week before doesn't do anyone any good unless they are already in the city. It doesn't help fans who want to see the event but couldn't acquire or afford tickets who would also have to travel. Maybe if you offer to give your tickets away or sell them months in advance so people can actually plan their lives....but I don't think anyone does that. I've certainly never seen it.

Good for those of you who have no problem throwing away tickets worth hundreds of dollars that other people would love to have. I'm NOT looking forward to when tickets for Montreal go on sale and I'm fighting through the internet for All-Event tickets against people who only want to go to one or two events. Though if one or two particular skaters ends up having to withdraw, the resale market will be flooded with very cheap resells.



Having copious amounts of time and money don't make you better than anyone. Plenty of fans would love to go but cannot afford tickets or cannot afford to take time off work. Most do not have the privilege of getting to go to major events.

Where are all these free tickets on offer I keep hearing about?

I have no idea where you're reading that people with copious amounts of money feel they are better than anyone else. Talk about strawmanning.

I usually see people post free tickets on twitter or other forums. I've seen/posted about them here in the past too, but for various reasons I've stopped.

It may be hard to believe but people offering free tickets aren't trying to stiff you, lol. They usually offer them as soon as they know they can't go and can't reasonably sell them. I've also seen people, i.e. skaters' families ask for free tickets to events they want to see, and people have offered them as well.

I offered to give away my all-event SC ticket in the summer because I couldn't attend. I still couldn't manage to. SC's stupid policy that they will only send you the physical ticket in October even though it was purchased in like, June meant that you could only promise someone the ticket and not actually sell or give it to them.

I also gave away IdF tickets that summer because I couldn't go and someone did manage to take them. Not sure if they ever redeemed them, but at least IdF gave you tickets up front that you could reasonable exchange with someone.

It's quite ironic that ISU/the various Feds do so many dumb things that cause low attendance at events that people here prefer to blame other fans for. It's quite...telling to say the least.

 

[moonvine]

I have no idea where you're reading that people with copious amounts of money feel they are better than anyone else. Talk about picking fights where they don't exist.

The free tickets are usually on twitter or other forums. I've posted about them here before too, but for various reasons I've stopped. And why would you wait til the last minute to give them out? It's not like attendance lists aren't decided months in advance. Like for SC and IdF tickets last year I offered them in the summer. I still couldn't manage to give out my SC all-event ticket for free though.

Well, I bought my ladies short ticket before I bought the Mirai event. So I was not going to use it, but didn't know til shortly before the event. That's unusual though.

 

[narcissa]

Well, I bought my ladies short ticket before I bought the Mirai event. So I was not going to use it, but didn't know til shortly before the event. That's unusual though.

And it was nice of you to anyway. You definitely had no obligation to. I amended my post, I meant that people would give the tickets out as soon as they realized they couldn't attend. Which I think...hope...is perfectly reasonable to anyone.

 

[Casual]

This seems so common sense, and I can't imagine why it's not viewed as a serious option.

True story: I used to go with buddies to see the Atlanta Braves back in the old days. Low attendance was an issue with the club. They offered $3 outfield seats, and they even let you bring your own food into the game. A family of 4 could go to a game and pick up a bucket of chicken on the way. Total cost $20.

Those seats would have gone unsold oherwise, and guess what? They GREW a very loyal fanbase, and you sure can't score seats so easily now. Not in the outfield, and certainly not for $3.

This. Lower the ticket price, and people will come!

Also, pick less expensive venues (easy flights, reasonable lodging).

And don't forget to advertise. (I wouldn't even know about 4CC being held in California, if not for this forum, LOL.)