2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Fluture]

That's what I would like to know too. Is it the organizer's thing? When I look at the last year, it seems to me that for all three teams there was one strong man/lady and one - now I'm out of definitions, because how to put skaters like Oda, Vasiljevs, Abbott and Masha Sotskova and Mariah Bell in one box (I see there an exception of Japan ladies, because at that time Kaori and Satoko could heve been seen as equal to me).

I get what you‘re trying to say. But last season they invited Zhenya and Alina, didn‘t they? Zhenya only declined because she‘d had a stressful offseason and wasn‘t ready. And Masha, though not as strong as someone like Alina or Zhenya, is still an Olympian. She made the top 10 there. So, last year, she could still be called a very strong lady. She declined last season, unfortunately, but still... at this point, an Olympian is still very much a well known competitor, not only the medalists.

In the Olympic season, they sent Zhenya and Alina, which was essentially what made me think it will be Alina + Sasha this year. But I‘d very much like to know what the criteria is.

Team Japan is sending Rika and Satoko this year, so again, I feel like they‘re equal as far as star power is concerned. Satoko is Olympian, World medalist and carried the Japanese teams for years. Rika is a rising star.

So, I guess a combination of either Alina/Sasha, Alina/Zhenya or Alina/Liza makes the most sense. My bet is on the first option, though.

 

[hanca]

There is a little fault in your proposal.
GPs happen fairly late in the season, last one a month before rusnats. This means that most top skaters would be automatically forced to do Russian Cup events early in the season, to ensure that they have a pass to Rusnats in case they bomb GP or get injured.
Adding even more (unnecessary) competitions for the top skaters.
Also, the GP qualifier, imho, is more of an aknowledgment of past results: as in skaters who performed well enough last year to deserve a chance this year. You can be sure that changing the rule the way you suggest would only add more voices to the "russian skaters being discarded after 1st mistake", "one time champions" and so on.

Actually, it is not a fault in my proposal. If a Russian senior lady is not managing to score 190 a month before nationals, surely she should not qualify to the nationals. So why having second chance to qualify at the Russian cup events? Besides, most ladies have two GP events, so not both of them would be a month before nationals. They would know early enough if they messed up their first GP event and they would have a choice to do two Russian cups or risk it hoping that at their second GP event they will score enough to qualify. And there is five Russian cup events so they should fit it around their schedule. If they didn’t find the time to do the cups, they will have to skate well enough at one of their GP events. I don’t think it would be that unreasonable.

 

[halulupu]

I am still furious. Let's face it, as much as I love Sotskova and Sakhanovich, I feel their GP spots are wasted opportunities. Gubanova could have shined here. The girl has potential to medal at Worlds for crying out loud.

U are unfair towards serafina.she got the better PB than gubanova, a potential quad and no more puberty trouble. Gubanova is in the middle of puberty, inconsitent 3z3l, bad packaging by bujanova (princess or latino style with babyblue or rosa dresses) and not love from judges.

 

[hanca]

Thanks. I knew Anastasia outperformed Sima last year. Those are the facts. You should have presented this to the Russian Federation. Sima at 19 finishing 11th at the Russian cup final is not good. If Anastasia ever did that it would be held against her until she was in her thirties! And yes Nastya was underscored yet again at Russian cup final.

Let's be honest though you only get a few years in ladies Russian figure skating to prove yourself. Time runs out fast. Many of the girls are done by the time they're 19 or 20. That's what makes Anastasia Gubanova getting the shaft again so hard. Even though she's only 16 time is running out for her in her discipline in her country. That my friends is undeniable.

You seem to forget that Gubanova has her fair share of underperforming too. Placing 9th at the Russian nationals is not that great either! So criticising Sakhanovich for her result at the Russian cup final...

 

[moriel]

Actually, it is not a fault in my proposal. If a Russian senior lady is not managing to score 190 a month before nationals, surely she should not qualify to the nationals. So why having second chance to qualify at the Russian cup events? Besides, most ladies have two GP events, so not both of them would be a month before nationals. They would know early enough if they messed up their first GP event and they would have a choice to do two Russian cups or risk it hoping that at their second GP event they will score enough to qualify. And there is five Russian cup events so they should fit it around their schedule. If they didn’t find the time to do the cups, they will have to skate well enough at one of their GP events. I don’t think it would be that unreasonable.

"If a Russian senior lady is not managing to score 190 a month before nationals, surely she should not qualify to the nationals."

Sure, nice.
Last year, Gubanova scored 180.73 one month before nationals. She should be out, according to your rule?

Could bring more examples.

 

[hanca]

"If a Russian senior lady is not managing to score 190 a month before nationals, surely she should not qualify to the nationals."

Sure, nice.
Last year, Gubanova scored 180.73 one month before nationals. She should be out, according to your rule?
Could bring more examples.

If she attended two GP events and at none of them achieved 190, and one of them would be a month before the nationals...of course she should be out. But she did well at her Russian cup events which means she would qualify anyway. I am talking about skaters who are getting automatically qualified for nationals without having any decent scores at the international competitions (GP events). If they are not getting the scores, why should they qualify automatically? Let them do the Russian cups.

 

[moriel]

If she attended two GP events and at none of them achieved 190, and one of them would be a month before the nationals...of course she should be out. But she did well at her Russian cup events which means she would qualify anyway. I am talking about skaters who are getting automatically qualified for nationals without having any decent scores at the international competitions (GP events). If they are not getting the scores, why should they qualify automatically? Let them do the Russian cups.

But what is the difference?
Suppose a skater gets injured and skips their first GP. On the second one, this skater gets 180 points, 1 month before nationals. No nationals for this skater.
But Gubanova, who scored 180 right before nationals, qualifies?

How good is that?

Again, the main reason for those qualifiers is to support top skaters, even if they struggle during a specific season. Top skaters as in folks who manage to get at least one GP. You are basically suggesting to throw them under the train after first injury or a couple of bad competitions. Just a reminder, GPs are given based on specific achievments mostly, apart from the host picks.

 

[hanca]

But what is the difference?
Suppose a skater gets injured and skips their first GP. On the second one, this skater gets 180 points, 1 month before nationals. No nationals for this skater.
But Gubanova, who scored 180 right before nationals, qualifies?

How good is that?

Again, the main reason for those qualifiers is to support top skaters, even if they struggle during a specific season. Top skaters as in folks who manage to get at least one GP. You are basically suggesting to throw them under the train after first injury or a couple of bad competitions. Just a reminder, GPs are given based on specific achievments mostly, apart from the host picks.

Your example about a skater who gets injured and misses their first GP event - how different it is if US or Canadian skater is injured and misses their qualifier for nationals? If US skater misses sectionals, they won’t qualify. If the Russian skater in your example missed first GP event, they still would have a chance to qualify for the nationals at their second GP event by getting a decent score. I can’t see why it would be unfair. No more unfair than US or Canadian system, which doesn’t give second chance to qualify.

The problem with the current situation of qualification for Russian nationals is that if you have 9-10 skaters with GP who qualify automatically and then you have 5-6 skaters who gets spots through JGPF, it may happen that not all skaters who medal at the Russian cups will qualify for the nationals, because they are fighting for 2-4 spots. And then it depends a lot on who is in your event. Some event may have Trusova, Zagitova and Scherbakova, so even the best from those who is trying to qualify would place only fourth, and another event may not have any of those top skaters and winning would be significantly easier. Qualifying to the nationals seems to be like a lottery, rather than based on achievement.

 

[nussnacker]

The problem with the current situation is that if you have 9-10 skaters with GP who qualify automatically and then you have 5-6 skaters who gets spots through JGPF, it may happen that not all skaters who medal at the Russian cups will qualify for the nationals, because they are fighting for 2-4 spots. And then it depends a lot on who is in your event. Some event may have Trusova, Zagitova and Scherbakova, so even the best from those who is trying to qualify would place only fourth, and another event may not have any of those top skaters and winning would be significantly easier. Qualifying to the nationals seems to be like a lottery, rather than based on achievement.

Side note: no one qualifies to rusnats through junior gran Prix. All juniors have to qualify through Russian cup stages.

 

[hanca]

Side note: no one qualifies to rusnats through junior gran Prix. All juniors have to qualify through Russian cup stages.

That’s not true. Unless it changed, they do qualify by getting to the JGP finals. How do you think Trusova, Scherbakova, Tarakanova and Kostornaya qualified to the senior nationals the last season? They each did only one Russian cup event and wouldn’t have enough points to qualify through the events.

 

[Jontor]

That’s not true. Unless it changed, they do qualify by getting to the JGPF.

Yes, and last year that was Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaia and Tarakanova = 4 spots. GP was 10 spots so that left only 4 spots from the Russian Cup. There were two WD so in the end a total of 6 girls qualified through Russian Cup.

 

[hanca]

Yes, and last year that was Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaia and Tarakanova = 4 spots. GP was 10 spots so that left only 4 spots from the Russian Cup. There were two WD so in the end a total of 6 girls qualified through Russian Cup.

That’s exactly my point. Last year it was lucky that some skaters withdrew, and that only four out of possible six got in through JGPF. That made a few extra available spots, but there could easily be only as few as 2 spots for grabs through Russian cups. Which is unfair, if skaters who are underperforming may get free pass through GP events.

 

[nussnacker]

That’s not true. Unless it changed, they do qualify by getting to the JGP finals. How do you think Trusova, Scherbakova, Tarakanova and Kostornaya qualified to the senior nationals the last season? They each did only one Russian cup event and wouldn’t have enough points to qualify through the events.

I know how they qualified for russian nationals.
No junior got to nationals simply because they attended jgp.
Only 2 juniors could go to nationals by qualifying through 1 russian cup event.

There's no hard rule to the qualifications, it's vague and rusfed decides who does how many rus cup stages to qualify.

They only let Trusova and Kostornaya do 1 stage, and that was clearly an exception.

All others did 2 stages even though they had jgp and won/medalled there.
Anna Shcherbakova: won 2nd and 4th stage of russian cup stages, so she had to do both stages.
Tarusina had to do 2 stages as well, 3 and 5th stage, she got silver at both.
Tarakanova did 2 stages of russian cup as well, 2nd and 5th stage, got silver and gold.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I know how they qualified for russian nationals.
No junior got to nationals simply because they attended jgp.
Only 2 juniors could go to nationals by qualifying through 1 russian cup event.

There's no hard rule, it's all very vague and rusfed decides who does how many rus cup stages to qualify.

They only let Trusova and Kostornaya do 1 stage, and that was clearly an exception.

All others did 2 stages even though they had jgp and won/medalled there.
Anna Shcherbakova: won 2nd and 4th stage of russian cup stages, so she had to do both stages.
Tarusina had to do 2 stages as well, 3 and 5th stage, she got silver at both.
Tarakanova did 2 stages of russian cup as well, 2nd and 5th stage, got silver and gold.

Not because they participated in the JGP, because they qualified for the JGPF. Shcherbakova couldn’t have gotten in based off of russian cup stages since she did the fourth stage in the junior level and the second on the senior. Tarakanova only competed at the V stage, so I don’t know where the second medal came from (Nugumanova was second at the second stage) Juniors who qualify for the JGPF and are age-eligible participate at senior nationals.

Tarusina and Vasilieva got in through the russian cup stages since they didn’t qualify for the JGPF.

 

[Scott512]

You seem to forget that Gubanova has her fair share of underperforming too. Placing 9th at the Russian nationals is not that great either! So criticising Sakhanovich for her result at the Russian cup final...

Nastya underperformed in a couple of events but nothing was dismal or disaster like not qualifying for Nationals. But where has she ever had disasters like Sima and Stasya have? What when she was 8?

Nastya should have been higher than ninth was underscored again at home against the best competition any ladies national ever had in any country . Not her best quality skating for sure but alot better than not qualifying and then a dismal 11th at Russian Cup final against much lesser competition than Gubanova had at Nationals.

this is the end of the discussion for me because we go around like cats chasing their tails and I certainly don't like being negative about the other skaters like I have been the past two days and it's not like me. I tend to be positive but if the bizarre Russian Federation had not put Anastasia on the national team Reserve list I would not be as disappointed as
I am. They should have just put Maria or Sima on the reserve list instead of Nastya. that would have made sense since they never planned together Anastasia a Grand Prix event in the first place.

 

[Tolstoj]

Thanks. I knew Anastasia outperformed Sima last year. Those are the facts. You should have presented this to the Russian Federation. Sima at 19 finishing 11th at the Russian cup final is not good. If Anastasia ever did that it would be held against her until she was in her thirties! And yes Nastya was underscored yet again at Russian cup final.

Let's be honest though you only get a few years in ladies Russian figure skating to prove yourself. Time runs out fast. Many of the girls are done by the time they're 19 or 20. That's what makes Anastasia Gubanova getting the shaft again so hard. Even though she's only 16 time is running out for her in her discipline in her country. That my friends is undeniable.

It seems funny to me that you are all picking on Sima when totally Sotskova should be the one to lose her spot.

- Gubanova pre-nationals season was pretty bad, she had rough outings at Cup events, saved by the judges, didn't blow anyone away with her performances at Challengers events, and then she did great at Nationals and afterwards.

- Sakhanovich's season was up and down but at least you can argue she had her good events where she skated well both SP and FS.

- Sotskova was bad all season: started bad at Japan Open, bad at NHK and in France, bad at her Challenger event and bad at Nationals and Universiade too. She never reached 180 in the entire season which wouldn't be good even for other countries where competition isn't as tough.

Nothing against her, anyone can have a bad season especially if you have to deal with university also, but because of that you should regain your status from Senior B events and Russian Cup.

But like i said RusFed basically applied the rules and that's it, so like it or not at least they are sticking to it which i prefer as opposed to "we'll pick x skater because we like her more" like in 2013 for Kovtun.

 

[hanca]

Nastya underperformed in a couple of events but nothing was dismal or disaster like not qualifying for Nationals. But where has she ever had disasters like Sima and Stasya have? What when she was 8?

Nastya should have been higher than ninth was underscored again at home against the best competition any ladies national ever had in any country . Not her best quality skating for sure but alot better than not qualifying and then a dismal 11th at Russian Cup final against much lesser competition than Gubanova had at Nationals.

this is the end of the discussion for me because we go around like cats chasing their tails and I certainly don't like being negative about the other skaters like I have been the past two days and it's not like me. I tend to be positive but if the bizarre Russian Federation had not put Anastasia on the national team Reserve list I would not be as disappointed as
I am. They should have just put Maria or Sima on the reserve list instead of Nastya. that would have made sense since they never planned together Anastasia a Grand Prix event in the first place.

You have an excuse for Nastia when she messes up her event, but no understanding for Serafima when she messes up her event? Yes, she didn’t qualify for the nationals, but she had better season than at least three skaters who did qualify. Which says something about the selection criteria rather then about her being a bad skater. Unlike Nastia, Serafima had good season internationally. If I was an elite skater and should choose whether I want to have good results at home competitions or internationally, I would choose internationally. So good for Serafima. It got her GP event and qualification for this year’s nationals. Maybe Nastia needs to change her strategy, if she wants GP events next year. No point complaining about the system. She has the same info as the other skaters, so she can make the system work for her.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

I can’t wait until Alina or a top Russian skater announces her music so that we can stop discussing who deserves a GP assignment and who doesn’t.

 

[Scott512]

It seems funny to me that you are all picking on Sima when totally Sotskova should be the one to lose her spot.

- Gubanova pre-nationals season was pretty bad, she had rough outings at Cup events, saved by the judges, didn't blow anyone away with her performances at Challengers events, and then she did great at Nationals and afterwards.

- Sakhanovich's season was up and down but at least you can argue she had her good events where she skated well both SP and FS.

- Sotskova was bad all season: started bad at Japan Open, bad at NHK and in France, bad at her Challenger event and bad at Nationals and Universiade too. She never reached 180 in the entire season which wouldn't be good even for other countries where competition isn't as tough.

Nothing against her, anyone can have a bad season especially if you have to deal with university also, but because of that you should regain your status from Senior B events and Russian Cup.

But like i said RusFed basically applied the rules and that's it, so like it or not at least they are sticking to it which i prefer as opposed to "we'll pick x skater because we like her more" like in 2013 for Kovtun.

I am disappinted I came accross as picking on anyone and it's over as of this post. I hate doing that because there is so much to like in all of them Other than rusfed for stirring this hornets nest by having NG on the national team when they were not going to offer her a GP. Now she is stuck in never never land for the second season in a row. I dont like it but it is what it is and I feel bad about my comments about Sima and Masha and wish I didn't do that. But this is the edge and people get edgy. It all could have been avoided if rusfed did not put Nastya on the national team as a reserve. As fluture pointed it to do that then not offer her a GP was confusing. If Masha and Sima were more deserving of a GP than Nastya was then they should have been more deserving of being on the national team too. That adds up what rusfed did to NG did not.

Some think Nastya might skate some juniors this next season. I cant see it but anything is possible. She like any athlete needs to compete with better skaters in order to get better herself. Going back to juniors could be an emotional setback for her. Whatever happens should be exciting and interesting.

 

[katymay]

I thought Gubanova was wonderful at Russian Nationals-9th is pretty good considering the field. If she moved to the US, she would probably be our number one Senior Lady. She may still get a GP-injuries happen, withdraws happen. If so, I hope she is next on the list as an alternate. But even if not, it isn't the end of the world.